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Private Jet plane crashes in Florida

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florida-plane-crash-9.7404996
20•hmokiguess•54m ago

Comments

christophilus•32m ago
Don’t just crash. Was full throttle into the ground, by the looks of it.
kzrdude•27m ago
Reading what the pilot said is pretty harrowing. We know a lot from what the pilot already said over the radio (and maybe that's the best info we'll get, are there any remains left?)
embedding-shape•24m ago
> is there any remains left

If there is, seems they're deep under the ground as it nosedove straight into the ground and essentially disappeared, the crater showed almost no debris at all. People been guessing on reddit that everything just got "instantly pulverized" which I doubt somewhat, the shape of the frame is perfect for it shooting into the ground so I'm guessing they'll spend some weeks digging and eventually find the wreck.

Edit: Since I can't respond to my children:

> This kind of impact in fact has tendency to turn aircraft into powder

How often? A similar crash that comes to mind is https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/06/05/dc-... where they did recover actual bodies, even if the impact was near-vertical and seemingly faster than this case.

What specific cases are you thinking about where everything "instantly pulverized"?

p_l•18m ago
This kind of impact in fact has tendency to turn aircraft into powder
DoneWithAllThat•10m ago
Er, no. You’re greatly underestimating or misunderstanding the forces involved here. “Instantly pulverized” barely even begins to describe it.
kzrdude•3m ago
In the video in the thread, it seems to go from fully extended airplane to pancake in about two frames, which is, again, harrowing, horrible.
giarc•24m ago
You would never know a plane caused that crater since there was so little left. Hopefully it puts to bed the conspiracy theories of the plane that crashed into the pentagon. Doubt it though.
nradov•21m ago
Very little will be left considering the impact speed. Even if the aircraft was equipped with a flight data recorder (black box) then its structural limits were probably exceeded.
p_l•20m ago
The speculated final velocity at time of impact greatly exceeded design parameters for black box survivability so...
shadowgovt•6m ago
[delayed]
Xenoamorphous•4m ago
Question from someone who knows nothing about aviation, is it possible that the pilot did that knowing they were doomed?
robot_jesus•30m ago
It’s amazing to me that this post already feels quite old. But then I realized it only happened yesterday. I just feel that way because in today’s world we have seven different dashcam or security camera video feeds popping up on Reddit or X or whatever within minutes of a news event like this.

Sad story in this case. The cockpit audio was quite chilling.

p_l•19m ago
It's not even cockpit audio, it's just from ATC radio : - \
haunter•25m ago
It looked like a missile https://streamable.com/lg0on2
mrweasel•20m ago
The sound is just crazy and the images of the crash site seems somehow worse than what we've seen from e.g. Ukraine when a missile miss and slams into the ground.
shadowgovt•12m ago
A fully-fueled private jet is an inefficient missile, but it exceeds the raw chemical energy of most in-theater single-target tactical missiles (although the energy conversion is far less precise and efficient).

But yes, that's a lot of kinetic mass dead-stopping on a hard surface and 1 to 2 kiloliters of jet fuel.

233mhz•1m ago
> when a missile miss and slams into the ground.

A lot of them are designed to explode before hitting the target for maximum damage.

ErroneousBosh•7m ago
Learjet 60 is about 18 metres long. In one frame it's a little above the ground, in the next it's gone up to about halfway between the cockpit glass and the wing roots, and in the next it's gone.

At 30fps, I make that somewhere in the region of 1000mph.

eej71•23m ago
I regret listening to the audio. There is nothing gained by hearing it.
HiroProtagonist•19m ago
It's a tough listen and I don't begrudge your regret listening to it, however I think the pilot did a remarkable job of communication information about speed and bank angle right to the end which will indeed help this investigation and hopefully prevent future incidents.
goldcd•12m ago
Yep - some people are being paid to listen to that, but I'm not.
jmyeet•23m ago
It's unclear exactly what happened but I've heard some aviation experts talk about this and there are already some leading theories, which come down to two factors:

1. The so-called coffin corner [1] where the minimum safe speed for aerodynamic lift and the speed where the plane will stall narrows to a dangerously narrow window. This is caused in part because the speed of sound decreases at high altitude. Turbulence can throw you out of this window; and

2. It seems likely that control was lost because of ice. In released ATC recordings (which are awful to listen to, be warned) the pilot mentions ice. This is likely because of the bad weather over south Florida right now.

The pilot requested a new flight path and I believe tried to ascend from 35,000 feet to 37,000 feet and ended up in a spiral, banked at ~60 degrees, descending at ~30,000 feet per minute, crashing into the ground.

I'm not a pilot but I suspect there will be some element of this that is pilot error or at least could've been avoided and/or mitigated by an experienced pilot.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_corner_(aerodynamics)

sandworm101•13m ago
It wasn't coffin corner. This was a Lear at reasonable altitudes, not a U2 at the edge of space. The death spiral suggest a loss of control authority. It is conceivable that one wing severely iced to the point of unrecoverable asymmetric lift but I think it was something more the icing. It might have lost part of its wing, or the controls on one wing locked into an unrecoverable position.

In the pictures, the flaps appear present but not extended. If they had been extended they would have ripped away at that speed. And they would not have been able to lower them after the overspeed began. I think the answer is in the control system. One or more control surfaces were doing something other than commanded.

Some images seem to indicate a loss/absence of the horizontal stabilizer, but it is hard to tell AI from real these days.

cmiles8•9m ago
andyjohnson0•8m ago
There's a thread on pprune about this incident. The usual mix of informed and less-informed speculation.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/674728-lear-60-...

There will be many questions on why the pilot flew into the tops of what (at least on radar) appeared as a small-ish localized cell at that altitude. Once the aircraft entered those conditions it was likely an unrecoverable event.

No pilot can fly a plane thats inside a truly violent thunderstorm. Flight control surfaces tend to snap off and in some cases the aircraft disintegrates in air. Some video suggests flight control surfaces broke off in flight here, which if accurate would explain the uncontrolled impact with the ground. The Lear Jet is a slick aircraft but one that has little margin for error.

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