I am ok assembling the machine and learning how to dial it in. I can do CAD work and make models by hand; I was a machinist in a past life. But, I am not very familiar with 'slicer' software yet.
I am ok assembling the machine and learning how to dial it in. I can do CAD work and make models by hand; I was a machinist in a past life. But, I am not very familiar with 'slicer' software yet.
Prusa Core One would be a bit more complete OOTB. It is 220mm in the smallest axis (Y) though. Slicer and firmware are open source, but the hardware is not (unlike previous Prusa printers).
Bambu gives you the same capability for much less, but the firmware is not open source (third party open source firmware does exist). I believe the stock firmware also has to "phone home" at least once before it can be used offline.
Even cheaper are less-well known Chinese companies, like Qidi. Firmware is usually a proprietary fork of Klipper or other open source projects; some people have had success flashing the mainline version.
Is your goal to earn or learn?
How much time do you have to spend on 3d printing?
I can do what I need to do in CAD, design my own parts, etc. Other than the above, I'll use it for gifts, stuff around the home, rasPi and ESP32 electronic projects with home assistant, misc. enclosures, etc. I have a broad set of use cases but running production 24/7/365 isn't something I see myself doing unless I stumble upon a niche as I mentioned.
What kind of temperatures/pressures/chemical exposure are you expecting for your prints? You should probably start there, check for 3d printing materials that can actually handle those requirements, and then filter for printing technologies that fit the bill. I would imagine that would already break it down a lot.
I used to like the tweaking, but once I got a Bambu P1S, I've gotten spoiled just being able to hit print and let it go.
If you want a large printer that's decent for tinkering, Sovol SV08.
If you want relatively good support and to support a company that has a history of giving back, Prusa.
If you want something cheap with a lot of features that tend to be more high end, Elegoo Centuri Carbon.
If you just want something cheap that's arguably incredible value with an active community, Creality Ender 3 V3 KE.
Prusa is by far the most "open" probably with the SV08 second because it uses so much from the open source community (it's Voron inspired).
If you have a lot of time to spend, you could build a Voron, but I would not recommend that to anyone new to 3D printing.
i have no idea if it works with modern ones but my "old" Ender 3 plays nice with it
These being:
- Eddy sensor (for faster bed meshing, eddy-ng addon for Klipper adds auto z-offset)
- Mainline Klipper/Kalico (required for eddy functionality)
- Some motherboard fan replacement mod (the default is tiny, noisy, and always-on)
Of the others listed:
- Bambu printers and the Elegoo Centauri Carbon have locked-down firmware (possibly with hidden license violations).
- I think the only Prusa machine with that build volume is the XL, which is out of the price range
- The Creality Ender 3 V3 KE is okay, but the build volume is 220x220x240mm
Excellent print quality out of the box Automatic bed leveling and calibration Very user-friendly with great software Compact size, perfect for beginners
Creality K1 Max (~$599)
300x300x300mm build volume Fast printing speeds (up to 600mm/s) Auto-leveling and enclosed design Good balance of features and price
Prusa MINI+ (~$429 kit, $529 assembled)
Exceptional reliability and support Magnetic flexible bed Excellent community and documentation Great for learning and consistent results
I really wouldn't bother buying anything else as a beginner. Pick between these two.
It's a weird thing in 3D printing right now that if you don't have the open source stuff as a requirement you get better print quality and reliability for half the price with Bambu Lab.
Can work offline, but you'll probably need to block it at the firewall level if you care enough about privacy.
[0]Unless that's what your looking for.
Anyway, I have a Bambu, and it is a nice printer, but it wants to phone home and it is difficult to use when you put it behind a firewall.
Regarding slicer software, Ultimaker Cura is great for beginners, Orca Slicer has a slightly steeper learning curve but they both have their pros and cons such as different support generation algorithms, having an alternative when something doesn't seem to print right with one.
Depending on volume, your total cost would likely be lower. I know you mentioned privacy concerns so this may not be an option. But it significantly simplifies your work, letting you focus on the parts themselves.
Sure it costs more, but if you will only do it once that is still cheap. And some of the things they can do for you are not safe to do at home.
So you might as well buy that and have a lower-spec iteration, because you're going to run into all sorts of design problems before you get to finer constraints.
Even the Core One just barely misses.
Prusa XL hits your target but is twice your budget.
Also honestly build volume can be a little overrated unless you're printing helmets. You can make things in smaller parts. More build volume brings with it more print issues you have to deal with. But also yeah look at a Voron maybe or the SV08.
If you're new to printing, start smaller anyway. If you've done machining you know there's a materials learning curve and the same thing applies here to the nth degree. Print material, volume, orientation, density, first-layer adhesion, temperature, etc all are things you will have to account for and will affect your print quality/strength. You want to learn about these things in smaller prints that waste less time and material rather than more/larger.
E.g., get the MK4S Kit.
They do have a bunch of cloud service BS and phoning home that runs afoul of the HN spirit, but there's a LAN mode that allows you to send prints from LAN without opening up to the wider internet. If that's still too restrictive, you can always do direct SD card transfers via sneakernet.
Software might be too closed for you, IDK if there are jailbreaks. Repairability is possible but fiddly – akin to current gen car engines, rather than 70s types. They're very popular printers, I've only needed to open the head once, and there were plenty of YT teardown videos to help.
The Bambu slicer is good. They've got niceties for basic operations like snapping to bed or scaling up/down by a few percent. I believe it's based on cura slicer, which is also excellent.
P1S is at the midpoint of your budget. Their next model up is $1200, depending on your flexibility. Might have some value if you're doing more obscure materials. Didn't realize how cheap the enclosed ones had gotten. I've got half a mind to upgrade myself now....
I agree that the Bambu printers are as good as it gets for plug-and-play printing, but I wouldn't trust the tiny carbon filter for toxic fumes in an indoor environment.
The better VOC filters use a larger amount of activated carbon and they recirculate a high volume of chamber air inside the chamber.
Activated carbon also needs to be replaced over time as it loses capacity to adsorb more VOCs.
This is not the way to go with toxic fumes or how to get good ABS printing performance.
I regret it. Hands down. It is absolutely worse from a practical standpoint than the much older X1C I have, and the absolutely maddening part is that the "worse" bits are mostly software related.
You can hate on Bambu all you want (and frankly - a good chunk of it is well earned, but some is exaggerated or false) - but it feels like they use their products, and they care enough to fix the rough spots.
So while I like the ideals of Prusa... I can't say I'm super impressed with their latest offerings. Bambu's ecosystem is justly WILDLY better. The slicer is less annoying, the printer is more consistent, the monitoring tools are better, and most importantly - when I hit print, it just fucking does it.
I've had the Core One for less than 3 months, and I'm already into the double digits for number times I hit print and I come back 5 hours later to find.... it hasn't even damn well started the job. Instead...
"nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
"different filament is loaded. unload? Select No to start print" (side note - it's just fucking wrong here, the filament from the correct MMU slot IS loaded, I just did it manually at the printer because if I don't and I switch materials - the next print is a guaranteed failure. The MMU is a whole different clusterfuck of bad software design, cool 3d printed engineering, bad software design)
"Nozzle clean failed. Retry?"
"The bed appears to be unlevel. Perform leveling?"
"Bed heating disabled due to inactivity" (This one still stumps me, I hit print, and came back to this message - my guess is nozzle clean fail and this just dismissed the first one... but who knows).
"Nozzle wipe failed. Retry?"
---
Basically - I am fucking tired of "Core One needs your attention!" popups on my phone. Especially for the stupid things like approving a nozzle clean retry, or re-leveling. I am also sick of wasted time thinking the machine is printing when it's not.
Right now, I would absolutely buy a Bambu over anything else in the market for FDM.
Get a Prusa Core One kit, or build a Voron.
Bambulab should be off the table for their bait and switch behaviour. AMS is not particularly impressive and very wasteful. Get a Bondtech INDX down the road if you want true multi material printing.
Flashforge Adventurer 5M https://www.flashforge.com/products/adventurer-5m-3d-printer
After maybe 10 years of printing this is what I initially imagined it would be, now its finally there for consumer - I want this part in plastic let’s go
Oh and it’s also fast.
Hmm, I wonder if bambu gives me a cut for the sales pitch, but if not it is also ok - i just have to give credit to good engineering when I see it
PS: no prusa or clones, no creality, dont mess with that nonsense
And your suggestion is Bambu with AMS?
Bambu make excellent machines. There is nothing comparable out of the box, especially at their price points.
Before Bambu, Prusa was the 'no tinker just print' brand, though I haven't used one I agree Bambu's taken the lead now, but I think given OP's desire for more openness and repairability etc. Prusa makes more sense.
Fwiw: I have a Prusa Mini, and I'd buy Bambu today, I'm continually tempted by an enclosed model with AMS. But I'm not OP, and I don't think that's right for them with their description.
Add an AMS later if valuable.
The step up from P1S to X1C isn't worth it for someone with a budget who doesn't need the incremental improvements of the X1C.
Prusa isn't fully opensource, but has the worst enclosed chamber printer imo.
Bambu isn't open source in the slightest (beside the slicer).
You are never going to print PC on a bambu either way, at least not Pure PC. Blends, sure, you need at least 100c chambers for pure PC.
diy kits are the way to go, but it is going take you a LONG time. a voron, ratrig, or annex k3 are your best bets with the requirements you want. each kit has their weaknesses, and most of them, are going to require upgrades from their BOM.
And yes, I think you're absolutely right. DIY kits are the way to go with OP's requirements.
I built myself a Voron, and it's an amazing learning experience. I learn how things work, and the trade offs. I get to pick and replace the exact parts I want. I design my functional parts knowing exactly the printer's capability. There is something very fascinating about it. You can look at a print, and can tell different issues at a glance because you have seen (and fixed) them while you built and tuned the printer. The majority of 3D Printing quality issue are due to Hardware constructions / trade offs, and not Software (slicer settings..). Without building a printer from scratch, it's hard to tell the root cause.
https://vorondesign.com/voron2.4
- Fully open sourced
- Repairability and updatability. Lots of fun mods.
- No phone home / privacy issue like Bambu
I think before going down the rabbit hole, it's best to make sure you have a clear answer for this question: Do you care about the learning / tinkering / optimizing part, or do you care more about "it just works" printing?
- Many recommendations in this thread is for the "it just works" printing case. The top candidates are Bambu, Creality, and Eiegoo. The quality is good for most cases.
- If you're an engineer and into tinkering like me, you would be much happier with a Voron v2. Depending on your effort, you can match Bambu's quality, or _greatly_ exceed it.
Regarding Slicer, don't worry much about it. You can learn one very fast. The top ones are Cura and Orca Slicer. I use them both, and they have pros / cons. Personally on my Voron, a well tuned Cura profile yield better result. But Cura is missing one important feature: it can't limit the speed based on Flow Rate.
Another quick tip:
- Take the advertised number with a grant of salt. For example, many printers advertised 600 mm/s print speed. The mechanical frame may be able to handle 600 mm/s, but the Hot End is the limit of the build (e.g. it can't melt material fast enough, friction, the ability of extruder motor to quickly change speed, etc).
Hope you have a great time!
So my big question, for someone who’s owned one a while: is the printer ever “done”?
Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
I always see the quote about “if you like printERS, build, but if you like printING, just buy one” - but nobody talks about the timescale on the fiddling and whether it ever stops.
(currently own a Prusa mk3s I built as a kit and it’s been pretty solid as a tool!)
The Prusa mk4's we use are extremely reliable; most problems come down to users doing dumb stuff... or at least, doing risky stuff and not monitoring the print.
I find that I usually have some /kind/ of print I'm making (say, very hollow terrain pieces for tabletop wargames) get my printer settings dialed in over the course of a few failed prints, and then can print more of that kind of thing very reliably. In other words, good printer settings are project dependent, but can usually transfer reliably across simlar projects. And then I don't have to think much about the printer - it just does its thing.
The printer is never "done" :). But there are plenty check points where it's "pretty good".
For example, here is my rough timeline:
- I sourced the parts and built it. Took around 4 weekends.
- The initial tuning took a while (like a month). But this was very fun. I tried almost all the Slicers. I fixed constructions issues (square angle, deracking, belt tuning, ...). After this step, the machine becomes "good enough". I can print various parts in the house and I was satisfied with the quality.
- I started pushing for speed and redid many parts of the printer. I learned about various limitations (like Flow Rate is the real limit for speed). This phase last a long time for me (like a year). I ended up replacing like 75% of the printed parts with CNC parts. During this time, the printer is still online and printable.
- I didn't modded the printer much after that. I found my sweet spot between speed / quality. I want to mod it with a 120W Hot End heater to increase the Flow Rate (already bought it), but it's not quite a necessary thing. It's more for fun. The tinkering goes on as long as you feel it's fun. But I wouldn't say you _need_ to tinker to _keep_ it working.
> Is there a point after which it “just works”? Or is it always going to be more like “it’s great! I just need to tweak the blah blah setting every time and retighten the frobnitz every 3 prints, no big deal really!”
After the first tuning phase, the Voron was "just works" for me. Or at least, if there was any issue, I could immediately tell what went wrong. And no retightening needed so far except one time the printed feet cracked (that was the reason I switched to CNC aluminum parts).
Edit: I built a large Voron (350mm), and it is really _heavy_ (almost full metal in my case). That's why the printed feet cracked. Beside that, maintenance is almost zero. I don't even wash the spring steel bed. Just click print and walk away.
Wish the resin printers didn’t have the toxic fumes problem though, then I’d get one of them too.
Elegoo Centauri Carbon: I know lots of people will recommend the P1S but this printer has 95% of the features at half the cost. Also extruder temp goes higher (320C), for more exotic materials.
Looking into GF infused PLA, or PETG for come up-coming projects, and wondering how things will work out with their "Filament Switching System" which was promised for Q3.
If money hadn't been a concern, I'd've chosen a Prusa XL w/ multiple print heads.
Bamboo Labs shouldn't be recommended as OP doesn't want a printer that phones home and is open source.
Then there's cheap printers that are either too small or aren't enclosed, again not suitable for OP.
DIY kits fit OP's requirements better IMO.
My Voron is hands down a better printer but also required significantly more investments in components and especially time.
starkparker•2d ago
and
> durable, temperature/chemical resistant materials such as PC/Nylon/ABS or infused materials.
are a little cart-before-horse. This is like asking what ink-and-paper printer to buy for making complex, multi-format printed books to specific criteria, while admitting that you've not used any form of publishing software or understand any of the non-software processes involved in making a book.
The slicer is by far your most important tool for _effective_ 3D printing with a variety of materials, moreso than CAD or 3D modeling. Get a cheaper, more plug-and-play printer that doesn't meet all of your criteria, and focus on learning how to effectively use its slicer.
Print basic things, experiment, and force and make hands-on mistakes with it on relatively forgiving PLA/PETG. Do these _before_ jumping up to a pricier, fully enclosed machine _and also_ before printing harder-to-use materials, each of which will add new difficulties. You don't want your first hotend blob to happen on a decent machine that you actually like while using a material that's difficult or dangerous to deal with.
A Sovol SV06 or SV08 meets most of your criteria at about 1/3 to 1/2 of your budget; I haven't had the best experiences with their reliability but they fit many of your criteria. Used Creality Enders might be even cheaper depending on where you are, and while also fussy are hackable and repairable to the point of often being used as platforms for entirely different printers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmMW6_7lrlQ
digdugdirk•2d ago
To make a CNC machining metaphor - Slicer software is basically just your interface to the dials and knobs on the CNC settings for speeds and feeds. There's more settings, because 3d printing is more like if a CNC had a baby with a welder and an injection molding press, only it's injecting and simultaneously welding up a blob of plastic. You're balancing the toolpaths, the temps, the adhesion, and the overall speed all at the same time, all for whatever material you're using.
So it's complex, but these companies have a ton of data and experience in order to make sure their preset settings are damn good out of the box. And these days, they get it right more often than they get it wrong!
Long story short - you should probably just get a Bambu. You'll learn what you need to learn from it, while having good quality output the whole time. If you find out it's not suitable for what you're looking to do, then you can sell it used with decent resale and get the best printer for your specific application.
birdman3131•1h ago
Your manual controls on pretty much all 3d printers suck. But that's because manual operation is considerable far down the priority list. I've never seen one that did jogging other than setting an increment and tapping a touchscreen button to make it move 1 increment.
Every CNC machine I have ever ran did way better with the jogging. Even the ones from the 70's. You set a speed with a knob and then hold down a button. It goes till you let up. Or you use a rotary wheel for fine control.
And don't even get me started on homing. The homing sequence on all the printers I have dealt with is home X and Y before homing Z. Most machinists will be aghast at this as if you are homing all 3 axis's at once you home Z first to get the tool out of the way.
JeffeFawkes•29m ago
EDIT: to be specific, this is for "bed-slinger" printers, but the concept is the same for fixed height tool head printers (eg where the bed is what's raised and lowered).