I can't believe I have to write this: McCarthyism was a BAD thing that caused harm to a lot of people and did NOTHING to preserve liberty and freedom.
Anyway, claims that some group of people are propagandists or that some particular messaging is hateful or fake or propaganda are themselves a type of propaganda. There's no way to evaluate any meta-claim about how we ought to interpret the memes we encounter in society without an object-level understanding of what those memes actually are, which I think is one of the best arguments in favor of radical anti-censorship ideologies.
Like claiming the FBI is involved with censoring Americans because it is their job to seize certain illegal websites.
For example, I would have liked to see more specifics on what they define as censorship in terms of scope.
Mainstream discourse in Germany is very conservative when it comes to defining censorship. They would hardly name de-ranking, deplatforming, intimidation, exclusion from the financial system, or even full control of information by private organizations as censorship. Government-enacted media bans, such as the Commission banning Russian state media, are rarely viewed as censorship by Germans. ( https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-rt-sputnik-illegal-eu... )
I'm not trying to make a value statement in one direction or the other, but if your communication product addresses a market or seeks to tie into public discourse, it should be in touch with its concepts.
oezi•2mo ago
Like I mean yes Doom was censored as a game due to gore/violence. But what else?
Have to check the report.
But the thing is: Censorship is not the issue in Germany. Disinformation is. We get too much bullshit information unhindered which causes chaos.
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After a short skim of the report. It takes the angle that Germany's attempt to fight online hatespeech and disinformation would stifle speech and takes concern with paltry sums such as 30-50m spend annually to fight hate speech online. It all sounds pretty ridiculous to me when you consider that Cambridge Analytica doesn't even appear in the report as one of the wake-up calls to European countries that social media has become weaponized to attack democracies and influence elections. This isn't about free speech for Germans in Germany but how can we can keep Chinese interest through TikTok, Russian propaganda through X and comment sections and other foreign influences at bay?
IlikeKitties•2mo ago
> 1 Pimmel Affäre
> Schwachkopf Affäre
Oder zuletzt
> https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/suedbaden/a... and last but not least:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc
Germany is very much implementing censorship by chilling effect.
oezi•2mo ago
The rules which made e.g. insults illegal haven't changed but society stopped allowing anonymous people online getting away with it.
Maybe some background for non-German readers on Pimmelgate (Dick gate):
Pimmelgate happened when a secretary of state in one of the German states was called a 'dick' on social media and the politician had the guy who posted this swatted by state police. The state minister lost the resulting legal battle and was ridiculed online for his short fuse.
Not pretty certainly. Certainly an abuse of power by a politician leading the police in that state, but also widely reported and criticized. In my mind it doesn't compare for instance Donald Trump going after Comey or suing public broadcasters.
IlikeKitties•2mo ago
Just recently the wrong comment caused another home invasion by the police that drew wide criticism
> https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article68fa5facc014c...
The Article I linked about the Bundeswehr was about a students satire against the military.
And in the 60 Minute interview the prosecutors literally admit that they use illegal searches of your home as a punishment.
notrealyme123•2mo ago
I feel some people really want to make Germany more current-usa-free-speach
IlikeKitties•2mo ago
Every carnival float in Düsseldorf every year would have to be evaluated by a judge than. Just a RANDOM example: https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/motivwaegen-von-jacques-till...
Freedom of speech includes satire. To ignore that is the exact chilling effect I mentioned.
notrealyme123•2mo ago
IlikeKitties•2mo ago
Young people have to shut up and take it and if they don't, hope your pocketmoney covers attorneys fees!
Just read the context of what happened here, it's easy to find. They did shit like using their mass suriveillance tech to find the phone this OBVIOUS SATIRE was posted from[0]
[0]https://perspektive-online.net/2025/10/anzeige-wegen-meme-es...
veeti•2mo ago
patchymcnoodles•2mo ago
viktorcode•2mo ago
Some people might disagree that it isn’t a form of censorship, but it fits the bill: blocking access to information on the sole discretion of 3rd party pursuing its own interests.
oezi•2mo ago
amypetrik8•2mo ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-online-hate-speech-pros...
basically idea is "go after trolls". who likes trolls? nobody. at a glance should upset no-one. Okay.. now ask.. what does a troll mean to you, mean to me, mean to the people in power. It's a slippery slope you see, the definition of troll inevitably growing broader with time to cover all forms of wrongthink.
Then there's the other part of it, severity of punishment in ratio to a few words typed. Now the interesting thing here is it would be very easy to crack open a neighbor's wifi crypto, forge a MAC address, use a clean system/browser fingerprint such as a thrift store laptop, and now that neighbor you don't like is in hot water. The problem with such rules is ironically, with the intent to stop trolls, in fact supercharge trolling potential
viktorcode•2mo ago