No it wouldn't.
People make those excuses because it's weed, but you would have never posted that on an article about alcohol.
Well of course not, as the two drugs have completely different intoxication side effects.
Why did you automatically assume the point of bias?
A similar result about alcohol would be the (hypothetical) statement that the rate of drunk drivers in fatal accidents was constant before and after the enactment of Prohibition.
I do agree that the fact that fatal THC% stays constant before and after legalization is a surprise.
(Not that it really matters since I don't buy for a second that anywhere near 40% of people/people-driving are high at any given time. I also don't put much faith in numbers in the abstract of a a yet-to-be-published study...)
THC in the blood doesn’t mean actively high for habitual users, which would be most users if THC consumption is high. It means recent use, but not clear impairment.
And the study doesn't seem to differentiate between the different types of THC either, some of which are not psychoactive at all and which people use to relieve pain and anxiety. There's quite a lot of people using non-psychoactive THC which wouldn't impair driving.
It doesn't say anything about the distribution, only that the "average" (presumably, the arithmetic mean, a measure particularly sensitive to distortion by outliers) was at a particularly high level.
Can you explain what you mean by this?
If 40% of the whole population has THC in them, we'd need a control population (maybe from earlier when thc was less prominent) to see if per capita deaths has meaningfully increased. I'd do the same study, tangentially, for tech workers to see if productivity has changed when controlling for other variables.
If we are at 40% of the population being high at any given moment I think we are having extremely serious societal problems around mental health. Occasional use is not a big deal IMHO, but if a person is spending 40% of waking hours impaired that person has some serious unmet psychological needs.
I'm arguing that if the population data looks anything like the autopsy data, it would imply a massive epidemic of THC overuse.
Not really, due to THC content in the body not being a reliable indicator of impairment or even time since use.
If BAC were more like THC levels, I suspect the data would show 40% or more of the population has consumed alcohol - or, in your words, is drunk "at any given moment"
Having said that, I think that effect explains only part of the 40%, but can't explain all of it.
That said, almost everyone I know that consumes THC has no qualms driving while doing it, and many of them also at work. It's a huge peeve of mine.
I wonder how many of these people were under the influence of alcohol and other substances.
That said, I don't do either. I also wouldn't take any amount of weed while working, but I'd feel comfortable having a beer during lunch if appropriate (work lunch/celebrate, e.g.).
Its not a sample, it is the whole universe of analysis. (If you treat it as a sample of, say, US drivers killed in accidents in the same period, then errors due to sample size are probably the least of its problems.)
The article says the research was "focusing on 246 deceased drivers who were tested for THC", and that the test usually happens when autopsies are performed. It doesn't say if autopsies are performed for all driver deaths, and it also doesn't say what exactly is "usually".
If (for example) autopsy only happens when the driver is suspected of drug use, then there's a clear selection bias.
Note that this doesn't mean the study is useless: they were able to see that legalization of cannabis didn't have impact on recreational use.
> In a review of 246 deceased drivers, 41.9% tested positive for active THC in their blood, with an average level of 30.7 ng/mL — far exceeding most state impairment limits.
Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things. But I can't tell if my anecdotes are significant. It seems that Ohio's impaired drivers have been consistent through the past six years though.
NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars speeding through the red light right after it turns. I bike ride a lot so I'm looking around at drivers a lot, and for the most part the crazy drivers seem to be private citizens in personal cars, not Uber or commercial/industrial drivers.
To the OP, I'm not sure I buy into it being tied to THC which seems to be the implication. Canada isn't seeing this trend, afaik.
But the data here also show that it's a consistent level before and after legalization of cannabis in Ohio. So legalization of cannabis in Ohio did not cause a big increase in impairment-levels of THC in those who died in traffic.
They do not, though, give an owl's hoot about yielding to straight traffic when turning. I suspect NY drivers are on a big group chat encouraging each other to cut off cyclists and pedestrians, by turning into their lane whenever they see one, and promptly parking there for an hour.
And there's the "squeeze", and "crowding the box". Almost like no car here is truly allowed to ever really stop so they're always gently rolling, just a little, juuuuust a little, just, maybe, I know it's red but maybe just a lil squeeze into the intersection, maybe, squeeze, ...
I don't know how to explain it but if you've been here you'll recognize it I'm sure.
Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in which a driver runs people over in some egregious fashion, it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year. We know who these people are, we just don’t seem to have any motivation to actually do anything about it.
The city has published research on this, showing drivers who get 30+ speed camera tickets in a year are 50x as likely to be involved in crashes with serious injuries or death, but efforts to actually do something about their behavior are consistently stalled or watered down. Other research points to various causes, including backed up courts and decreased enforcement generally.
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2025/nyc-dot-advocate-fo...
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nyc-driver-behavi...
People shouldn't have their license taken away over 1 speeding ticket but there need to be escalating punishments that include license suspension, community service, jail time. If someone works their way through all of these and still ends up speeding then they can't be trusted to drive a vehicle on public roads.
To me the answer is quite simple for any of these. Treat repeated small infractions like bigger and bigger infractions. E.g. double the cost every iteration if it happens within a specific time frame.
Ok, you speed once? $100. Twice $200. Thrice $400. And so on. We only reset if you don’t reoffend for any speeding in 5 years. If you want to speed 20 times in 5 years, ok, go ahead. You pay $52,428,800.
Bonus points for making it start at something relative to your salary. People will stop at some point out of self-preservation.
If you don’t believe high fines work, drive from Switzerland to Germany. In Germany the Swiss have no problem speeding, because the fines are laughable. While south of the border they behave very nicely on the street.
You could extend this to other crimes. Google and Microsoft happily pay fines, since it’s cheaper than what they make from breaking anti-trust regulations. If you doubled it on each infraction they would at some time start feeling the pain.
That is because in germany, cars are a religion substitute and just like there can be no speed limit on the Autobahn in general, there can be no real enforcement of speeding.
The fines actually increased a lot in recent years. Still cheap, though. And if there are radar cameras, they are often in places where speeding is quite safe to make money from fines vs places where speeding is actually dangerous (close to schools etc)
It is basically a archaic thing, the bigger the man, the bigger and louder his car and the faster he goes. It shows status.
So I imagine in New York City it works just the same. When the big guys like speeding and the big guys control the state .. then how can there be meaningful regulation of that?
(To confess, I like to drive fast, too. But not in places where kids can jump or fall anytime on the road)
If you don’t pay the tickets, your car is at risk of being booted, but if you don’t park on the street or choose to obscure your license plate when you do (how did that leaf get stuck there!?), there aren’t many repercussions.
There was an attempt at a program to actually seize these cars, originally it would have kicked in at 5 tickets/year for immediate towing, but it was watered down to 15 tickets a year triggering a required safe driving class. They sort of half-assed the execution of that, then pointed at the limited results and cancelled it altogether. There’s an effort to pass a state law about this, we’ll see if it makes progress.
If you go down to 0 points, your licence is suspended.
If you stay without a fine for long enough, you get back points.
Some countries have fines that depend on how much you make. Some countries will destroy your car if you really behave badly.
Also, NYC has a different driving attitude than, say, Dallas. What people call aggression is often a difference in expectations. Drivers change lanes and merge far more assertively than in other parts of the country. As long as you aren’t causing the car behind you to panic brake, it’s considered acceptable. Hesitation from drivers tends to get more opprobrium than tight merges.
People block bike lanes and the box all the time. It’s annoying and you shouldn’t do it. But a lot of the rage is often unjustified. That FedEx truck needs to park somewhere and they aren’t going to roll over a fruit stand to do it.
It’s a dense, packed city. If you can’t give and take, you are going to hate it here.
And not like running a late yellow, but a full on my-light-is-green-and-there's-a-guy-in-front-of-me-sideways
It has dropped a bit now though.
The trend I’ve noticed this year is turning right from the middle lane cutting off people in the turn lane.
Its possible for multiple lanes to turn without anyone cutting anyone off, but its also possible for people to turn right from the middle lane of the source street into the rightmost lane of the target street, cutting off people in the rightmost lane of the source street attempting to turn, or to make a right turn from a middle lane that is not allowed to turn, cutting of a legal right-into-any-lane from the rightmost lane when it is the only turning lane, so if someone explicitly says that's what they see and there is no available counterevidence that they are misreporting their observation, questioning it accompanied by a description of how it is possible for people to turn from multiple lanes into distinct lanes in harmony without anyone being cutoff is not particularly useful.
> the car on the inside is required to turn into the nearest lane (according to any state law I know)
That's the base rule in most jurisdictions, but there are places where it doesn't apply. See, e.g., for California: https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-veh/division-11...
Edit: no offense to Gen Z with my earlier comment btw. My reasoning was maybe we're failing younger generations with drivers ed so the blame would be on us anyway.
Also I've seen these strange patterns in many states in the last year+: Oregon, Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, California
I saw another one where the car tried to turn right into an off-ramp with a line of cars waiting at the light. Like wtf, do you not see the wall of cars and headlights in front of you? Where are you going?!
The worst offenders are usually the older generations of countries where driving en mass is a recent thing. The old red guard uncles and aunties regularly run red lights cause who gives a damn about the law when you experienced the rule of the mob throughout your formative years. So parents and grandparents of students would be my guess.
[1]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10149345/ [2]: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2024/08/the-pandemics-tenacious-gri...
I remember the sad story of Eric Garner who was killed in 2014 while being arrested for selling loose cigarettes in Staten Island. Today, at least in NYC, you see people parked out in front of the same corner every day selling weed and loose cigarettes. Same people, out in the open. I'm pretty sure that's not a sanctioned dispensary.
Just shows how much things can change in ten years. For whatever reason, police and prosecutors just gave up in enforcing any kind of laws. Seems like an overreaction to whatever problems we had with criminal justice
https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/11nbnxw/san_f...
Are there any stats for incorrect crime reporting based on political leaning?
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=DS19750820.2.20
Since then, the SFPF have always had a culture of being above the law. The monopoly on legal violence thing can be taken a bit too far.
> Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police said. Collectively, they were arrested and rearrested more than 6,000 times, Police Commissioner Keechant Sewell said. Some engage in shoplifting as a trade, while others are driven by addiction or mental illness; the police did not identify the 327 people in the analysis.
Not clear if that's only in 1 year, but 6,000 arrests for the same 327 people means 18 arrests per person on average. Maybe if you see the same person shoplifting more than 5 times you put him away for some real time. 10 times? Hell even 20 strikes and you're out would make a real dent and serve as a deterrent.
There’s plenty of desire to increase prosecution rates in American jurisdictions but little desire to raise taxes high enough to pay for lawyers, judges, courthouses, and humane incarceration—let alone assistance for the otherwise innocent families of criminals. The victims of petty crime are usually poor or middle-class and therefore lack the political power to meaningfully change policy.
This is just not true. Most of this is organized exploiting a lenient justice system. From my original NYT article:
> Last year, 41 people were indicted in New York City in connection with a theft ring that state prosecutors said shoplifted millions of dollars worth of beauty products and luxury goods that were sold online.
The idea that these 300 people are just stealing bread to feed their families is a myth.
Wealthy people (mostly) didn’t own the Kias and Hyundais that were stolen en masse during the early 2020’s for instance.
As far as driving goes, any amount of drugs or alchohol is going to reduce reactions times, in addition to any impaired judgement or ability to control the vehicle. Even a couple of 1/10ths of a second in increased reaction time is enough to make the difference between braking in time and hitting another car or pedestrian/etc.
We should not tolerate the ignorant and ineffectual response from lawmakers on this issue. Year after year, they refuse to do the right thing: make texting a DUI-level offense, with the same penalties. You could even argue that texting while driving is worse than DUI: Drunk people suffer from impaired judgment; sober people texting have decided to endanger and steal from everyone else while in full command of their faculties. It's despicable.
But we still need to address the rest. Radio is chokefull of ads and the usual radio content is often insufficient to overcome my loneliness, so I’m not gonna say it’s ok, but I listen to Youtube videos while driving. You can sanction me. But let’s make the radio less boring for the sake of safety.
A low emotional intelligence driver, one with depression or low self worth, perhaps a psychological pathology like narcissism or nihilism. This is the type of person to initiate vehicular homicide. Intoxicant intake is a SUBSET of this group of variables.
The archetypical homicidal driver would of course have exceptionally high representation in cannabis use, and also likely cigarette use, and probably nitrous oxide but they don't measure that.
EDIT: what I will say is that dab culture is something beyond traditional cannabis use, and I could absolutely theorize that dab use in a vehicle is the new drunk driving.
the city essentially stopped issuing traffic tickets
A lot of people are trying to debate the impairment threshold or argue about mean vs median, but 40% of deceased drivers having this much THC in their blood would be a notable result for basically any sample of people for anything other than a music festival or something.
The number of people age 12 or older who report any THC use at all, even once, in the past year is around 20% (or less depending on the survey). Having 40% of a group register levels this high is a very eye opening result.
I was noticing driving getting worse before COVID.
It is the plague of narcissism and individualism out there (which doesn't just affect "boomers" but also every millennial and zoomer that dreams of doing nothing other than becoming an "influencer" and posts their life on their Instagram).
Social media, low attention spans, cellphone and driving distractions, narcissism, and "fuck you, got mine" culture is going to wind up being to blame. It is a population-wide axis II personality disorder.
https://journals.lww.com/journalacs/fulltext/2025/11001/trau...
The other question I have - my prior is that a bad driver (tired, drunk, high) is something like 70:30 odds of killing themselves vs some innocent bystander dying because of their actions. I have anecdotally heard of several sad tales where some guy is on his Nth DUI and kills an entire family, while he walks away from the accident without a scratch. Meaning are the rates of fatalities involving THC actually higher, but the detectably inebriated person managed to walk away without dying.
The impairments of driving under the influence of alcohol have been extensively studied, but unless I have overlooked the literature it seems that the same investigations have not been carried out with THC.
[0] «Blood THC >2 ng/mL, and possibly even THC >5 ng/mL, does not necessarily represent recent use of cannabis in frequent cannabis users.»; https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03768...
I’ve seen plenty of people who are essentially using THC vapes like nicotine vapes, in that they use them every few hours and start to get anxious if they don’t. Stoned driving has become normalized - between seeing people lighting up behind the wheel on snap map, seeing it on TV (this happened in The Rehearsal season 1), and seeing it in person, it would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
If you’re high all day every day, that may be your normal, but it doesn’t mean you’re competent to drive.
In my personal experience, it took a very long time to fully get through a high dose of THC - usually at least a full night sleep, but sometimes more like two, before my reaction times came back. Notably, it takes much longer for the impairment of THC to wear off than the subjectively enjoyable experience of being high, so you can “sober up” but still be impaired.
If you’ve been getting high every day for 10 years, it is hard to take seriously that you would know if you’re impaired. Kind of like vegans who haven’t tasted dairy for 10 years tend not to be reliable judges of the quality of vegan mayo - how could they possibly know?
I understand that you're taking issue with the idea of always being impaired, but the article indicates that there's a pretty clear association between having ingested THC and being in a car crash.
"Driving under the influence of cannabis was associated with a significantly increased risk of motor vehicle collisions compared with unimpaired driving (odds ratio 1.92 (95% confidence interval 1.35 to 2.73); P=0.0003); we noted heterogeneity among the individual study effects (I2=81)".
This is blatantly intellectually dishonest. If 100% of people drink water then it’s not surprising when 100% of people in car crashes have been drinking water.
If less than 40% of the population has impairment levels of THC at any given time but 40% of deceased car crash drivers have impairment levels of THC in their blood, you can’t pretend that THC use is equivalent to drinking water.
The mental gymnastics being done in this thread to try to ignore this study are fascinating.
You're looking at two different populations in this and your other comments, drawing a false equivalence. The study is over a 6 year period, over which 103 people (40%) tested positive for THC. You're saying that because the number of people who self-reported consuming THC in the last year is 20%, that means the result of the study is eye popping and shocking because the number is 40%. But you cannot directly infer elevated risk just because a subgroup has a higher prevalence than the general population without controlling for exposure and confounders. Especially considering what we are talking about is people self-reporting they are criminals.
Moreover, fatal crashes are not randomly distributed across age groups or vehicle types, and younger people, because they are not as experienced, they drive more often, in smaller cars with fewer safety features, are more likely both to smoke THC, and die in crashes even while sober. So there's a strong sampling bias here you're not accounting for.
And this isn't downplaying the results, it's pointing out its limitations of the study and warning you not to read into it what isn't there. You seem to be shocked by the results which should cause you to dig deeper into the study. I would say the most surprising thing here is they found nothing changed before and after legalization.
I knew a guy who drove home from bars unquestionably over the legal limit (example: 4-5 drinks in 90 minutes) every single weekend for years without getting caught or getting in accident.
It doesn’t mean he wasn’t impaired.
I'm no angel but I have gotten more diligent... I'm just reacting to "the degree". The goal has to be zero degrees of impairment when a moment of inattention can kill.
Also, my son was just hit by a driver while he was on a bike and in the bike lane. They claimed not to see him. He's fine thankfully but it's really scary to watch him ride off.
I know this is going to get downvoted by people who cant imagine an alternative but it’s possible all the same.
Every single one of them denied impairment during those periods.
Every single one of them remarked that they were sharper, more alert, and had better memory after stopping.
It’s an interesting phenomenon to watch. I think it’s becoming more socially acceptable to acknowledge that marijuana causes impairment even after the obvious effects have subsided, which was a taboo topic in the years when saying anything negative about marijuana would get you attacked as being pro-prohibition or pro-imprisonment of drug users. I even remember one of the big technical forums in the 2010s had a long debate thread where people were claiming that THC made them better drivers and citing YouTube videos and “studies” to back it up. It would be rare to see anyone try to make that claim in today’s environment.
They can even develop an ability to appear sober to casual observers while being impaired.
Feeling sober is not a reliable indicator of being sober. It’s referred to as delusions of sobriety.
Since then, [0] has been published and I think it's worth at least a skim. Since it's quite recent the introduction summarizes some of the most recent research.
The things that jump out at me are:
- [0]: Habitual users with baseline concentrations above legal limits perform just as well as habitual users with baseline concentrations below the legal limit, indicating that for habitual users, the legal limit doesn't have any relation to impairement.
- [1]: A study in Canada analyzed crash reports and blood tests to look at the state of drivers responsible for accidents. While alcohol had a very clear and statistically-significant influence on the risk of a driver causing an accident, THC did not.
To steelman the idea that THC causes accidents, [0] only looks at habitual users with baseline levels of THC and [1] only looks at non-fatal injuries.
My conclusion right now is that the number of drivers in accidents with THC in their blood is going up because the number of people with THC in their blood is going up, not because drivers who use THC cause accidents.
The law's assumption that this level of THC is evidence of impairment seems to be invalid.
The law would be better off measuring impairment in some way and perhaps intensifying penalties when an impairment test fails and the user has THC concentration above some threshold.
[0]: https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/71/12/1225/8299832...
But can't you account for 'type of car', 'type of road', 'commute length' as direct variables pretty easily without dipping into social/economic backgrounds?
For drunk drivers it’s rather easy to assess whether someone is impaired. With marijuana it’s not. So until we have a valid method of testing if someone is “too stoned to drive” we have to push back on any attempt to classify marijuana users as ineligible to drive.
You’re not really going to win anybody over to the legalization side when you basically say that people can consume as much THC as they want and drive without any penalties because of testing limitations.
Her attitude when asked to perform the field sobriety test was taken as a refusal and she lost her license, now with a DUI on her record.
We all like to think that these methods work, and they do most of the time, and yet there still are cases where a normal person is subjected to them and they deem them "unworthy" to pass.
Just one example of many:
"Say your ABC's backwards starting from Z"
Literally in the summary
> While blood alcohol content (BAC) level represents an accurate measurement of alcohol impairment, the presence of THC in a driver’s body has not been shown to be a predictable measure of cannabis impairment.
But further on
> Because THC in the blood can result from both recent as well as past use, impairment cannot be inferred from blood levels.
Which other, less invasive methods cannot. Like alcohol, impairment is highly individual and so we set a threshold.
I agree we need to set a threshold for impairment. I just want that to be measured reliably so that people who had a brownie last weekend aren't getting in trouble.
I know this is a giant hairball and the downvotes and passionate discussion is why I said what I said but in the end, until we have a breathalyzer for THC, it is what it is.
Now blood tests show a 12-24 hour window of usage. Much tighter than the 2 to 30 days of other tests. In terms of window of time, that’s essentially good-enough.
Of course anyone who consumes cannabis has a strong desire for a tighter and more accurate test, but you’re really fighting against growing masses of irresponsible users.
If the problem is truly wide-spread like alcohol was (and still is), it’s just a matter of time before states or feds push for a good-enough (for the rest of us) solution.
I used to bike-ride a lot, but the number unaccountable drivers and the increase in dispensaries in the NYC tri-state gave me pause.
> With marijuana it’s not. So until we have a valid method of testing if someone is “too stoned to drive” we have to push back on any attempt to classify marijuana users as ineligible to drive.
I agree. As someone who regularly consumes 250mg of edibles daily at a minimum, I’m sure my levels would be off the charts on a constant basis, even when sober. With the tolerance I currently have, it’d take a ridiculous amount to put me into a state where I felt driving wasn’t safe.
Thankfully society didn’t make exceptions. Eventually.
I see THC taking the same, slow, tortured approach.
Anecdote, I'm a user, by choice, and by habit/addiction. I was first exposed to it through, oddly enough, martial arts as a young teen. The punk rock scene of the 90s didn't help much either. Both me and my ex-wife were what you would call "techno-hippies". We would smoke as much weed as we could, and I would code and she would do her thing (she was a biologist so I have no clue, something genes). We had a rhythm and we liked the high grade one hit and you're good kind of marijuana.
When 2018 came around, The Farm Bill (tm) passed and it loosened the terms of what "hemp" was. The budding cannabis industry saw this as an opportunity to mess with genetics. They discovered that if you harvest early, immediately freeze it, D9-THC doesn't convert from it's precursor - THC-A. So then they started shipping "hemp" in the form of THC-A all over the states. All you have to do to "finish" the process is to decarboxylate it into D9-THC. However, there's also D8-THC which doesn't get you nearly as "high" and only lasts minutes. It, too, can be frozen to prevent it from converting from it's precursor - THC-A... What?!? So you really don't know whether it's D8 or D9 from the dispensary (and neither do they) and the quality is all over the charts.
I think this is why it's affecting driving so much. People who are used to the smoke shop D8 weed get their hands on some real D9 and it blows their minds.
God I wish we had a breathalyzer test for D9-THC. Without it, it's going to get legislated to the point where you're on the disabled "can't drive or operate any machinery, ever" list. You already give up your right to own a gun when you sign up for medical marijuana. (and when buying one, it asks you if you use...)
I'm definitely for making the roads safer, but I'm also pro-rights and liberties so this one is hard for me. Yes, there should be some legislation around marijuana, no it shouldn't be a schedule I-III but looked at like hops and barley. Tax the shit out of it. Like you do cigarettes. Don't prevent me from driving because I smoked a cigarette.
Also put a stop some of the bad actors and bad behaviors of growers (all night daylight…).
For example if we took random samples of the population and tested them for marijuana usage, what percentage would test positive?
Next, this study is only talking about marijuana testing, how many of the same group also tested positive for alcohol (or other impairing drugs). Lets make up fake numbers and say 60% of total fatalities had alcohol or other impairing drugs and the overlap between them and marijuana use was 80% then marijuana is rather insignificant.
We have to have all the details so we don't fall into a base rate fallacy.
50% of the people on this street get stoned before driving to work, every single day
dope isn't even legal here and even if it was DUI is wildly illegal
We can only cure this if we get serious about penalties because we can't undo murder and injuries
How about first time warning, second time weekend in jail, third time week in jail, fourth time month in jail, fifth time year in prison
Saying that in the country with world-leading mass incarceration mostly due to its decades long “war on drugs” which has very much not cured drug problems is a perfect example of putting ideological preconceptions ahead of reality.
I wish I could emphasize this even more.
There are some situations where certain types of punishments in certain situations will achieve societal behavior change.
There's a lot more where it doesn't and people absolutely to apply any kind of scientific thought to it.
> There's a lot more where it doesn't
Or, at least, not the behavior change you are hoping for.
that's why I proposed five steps starting with warning, weekend, then week in jail
if you spend a weekend in jail and don't change your behavior from doing something wildly dangerous yet absolutely not addicting, well then proceed to a year in prison
note I am not saying put people in prison simply for smoking dope, it's not legal here but there are no serious penalties if caught
I don't care what people do in their homes
You drive on the road stoned when I am riding my bike or running and put my life in danger, you definitely deserve some time to think about it behind bars
I've been "grazed" on the road many time over the years, I have no idea if people are drunk or stoned or just looking at their phones but I am okay with my five step idea for ALL of those cases, but they will never be caught anyway until they murder someone and then it's too late
https://www.courts.wa.gov/subsite/mjc/docs/2024/Three-strike...
Whats more, police officers already have a wide authority of judgement when considering these factors around marijuana impairment currently. Relying on subjective evaluation from FST and physical presentation will only result in a higher rate of non impaired drivers being imprisoned.
Those laws exist, and often result in people who should be receiving treatment spending years of their life in prison.
Someone who gets 5+ DUIs isn’t likely to be deterred by schemes like this
That could mean they all had levels far exceeding most state impairment limits, but it also could mean most of them had trace levels, while a few had levels way above 30.7 ng/mL. So, it says fairly little.
Also (FTA) “Researchers analyzed coroner records from Montgomery County in Ohio from January 2019 to September 2024, focusing on 246 deceased drivers who were tested for THC following a fatal crash”. That means there could be selection bias at play.
Finally, no mention is made on the levels of THC in the general population of of those driving cars. Both _could_ be equal or even higher.
I’m not sure one should blame (only) the researchers for these statements, though. Chances are they didn’t intend to find out whether THC use is a major cause of vehicle crashes, but only in whether legalizing THC use changed those numbers, and someone managed to get some more juicy quotes from them.
How do you propose gathering that particular data?
So the median THC level is 0%.
Having 40% of people register high enough levels of THC to pass an impairment threshold is a remarkably high number no matter how you look at it.
> Note: This research was presented as an abstract at the ACS Clinical Congress Scientific Forum. Research abstracts presented at the ACS Clinical Congress Scientific Forum are reviewed and selected by a program committee but are not yet peer reviewed.
My guess is when it gets to peer review, one of the reviewers will request at least mentioning these limitations. As it was only an abstract, it’s possible the paper itself does mention these limitations already as well.
There’s no way to normalize a result of 40% of a population sample having significant THC concentrations. That’s way higher than any conceivable sample of the general population.
Even if you dismiss all of the questions brought up in these comments like the use of mean levels instead of median, not accounting for tolerance of habitual users, or debates about the threshold for impairment, the 40% number in this study is without a doubt far higher than the number of people who have detectable levels of THC in their blood at any given time.
I see a lot of attempts to downplay the result of this study in the comments, but 40% having significant THC in their blood is a stunning statistic no matter how you look at it.
0. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/581951/first-day-of-road...
Researchers analyzed coroner records from
Montgomery County in Ohio from January 2019
to September 2024, focusing on 246 deceased
drivers who were tested for THC following a
fatal crash. When autopsies are performed,
drug screening is typically part of the
process.
SilverElfin•2h ago
didibus•2h ago
fn-mote•2h ago
One possible reason: the “new recruit” people who are now willing to use cannabis BECAUSE it is legal are also rule-following by being willing to stay off the road after using it. Perfectly plausible to me.
delecti•1h ago