Toxic Fumes on Planes Blamed for Deaths of Pilots and Crew

https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/toxic-fumes-airplane-pilot-crew-death-739fa3bb

44•karakoram•1mo ago

Comments

karakoram•1mo ago

OutOfHere•1mo ago

From what I recall from a prior article, this really is a bigger problem on Airbus planes than on Boeing planes, so much so that I will not fly on an Airbus plane. Until you vote with your wallet, no one will care.

Also, for multiple reasons, no one should fly without wearing a P95 or comparable or superior mask. You never know when smoke will hit. It is most critical during takeoff and landing, or if on the ground at a terminal. 3M 8577 is decent, with an essential bonus carbon layer. Place a disposable ASTM level 3 surgical mask on top too.

Note that an SpO2 finger meter can fail to recognize CO poisoning; it can be misleading with a false normal value of SpO2.

tenuousemphasis•1mo ago

I'd love to know what percentage of flights experience fume events to determine if it's a real problem I should worry about.

OutOfHere•1mo ago

For what it's worth, there is a very high number of harmful ultrafine particles in the air whenever a flight is taking off or landing, and also on the ground at the terminal. Most cases of exposure are just not acutely damaging to someone with normal lung function, but the damage absolutely accumulates with multiple flights. The heart in particular is no less sensitive to them than the lungs. The noted mask, if worn tightly, will block a good chunk of them.

ikekkdcjkfke•1mo ago

I am starting to consider wearing one of those transparent space suit helmets with led lights inside ala prometheus movie. With gas mask grade air filtration considering influenza and people starting to burn their trash cause of inflation

4d4m•1mo ago

100% outside of those with electric compressors for bleed air. You can smell it with your nose on takeoff and landing.

AgentK20•1mo ago

Uh.....what planes are you on where you, the passenger, can simply "pull down the oxygen mask"? Also, wouldn't the P95 only help with particulates (e.g. soot), but not with the actual toxic fumes?

OutOfHere•1mo ago

> but not with the actual toxic fumes?

3M 8577 has a bonus carbon layer for this purpose. Its protection is not complete, but can limit the damage. You should also carry spares in case the carbon layer is exhausted.

AgentK20•1mo ago

Oh, very cool. TIL. Thanks!

kubelsmieci•1mo ago

How will you know that you should change mask?

OutOfHere•1mo ago

The mask itself starts to smell. You will start sneezing and also dripping from the nose, but this will stop if you remove or replace the mask.

Also, you start to smell the diesel fumes. The more you wear a clean mask, the more sensitive your nose becomes to mild fumes.

janice1999•1mo ago

OP has no idea what he's talking about. Passengers masks are for depressurisation events and oxygen supplies last 15 minutes - enough time for the pilots to descend. Pilots have a separate longer lasting oxygen supply. In many (most older?) planes, a single passenger activating their mask will activate the chemical based oxygen supply that feeds all passenger masks.

hodgesrm•1mo ago

WSJ reporting on toxic fumes in aircraft has been excellent. There was a previous article in September that highlighted the problem. [0]

Problems like these make the value of good reporting obvious. If you want to be a muckraker this is a golden age.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/air-travel-toxic-fumes...

schmuckonwheels•1mo ago

This is especially prevalent on the Airbus A320-series aircraft due to the way it's very easy to overfill or spill oil on the APU in a way where the fumes can get sucked into the cabin air.

The only commercial aircraft immune to this issue is the B787 because it does not use engine "bleed air".

jerlam•1mo ago

Recently flew on an Airbus, but usually fly on a carrier that only flies Boeings. Upon engine startup, there was a extremely strong "burnt oil" odor going through the cabin. Many people were covering their face with their shirt, trying to filter out the smell. I doubt it did anything because I could smell it through an N95.

schmuckonwheels•1mo ago

An N95 is fairly ineffective against oil-based contaminants.

Ancalagon•1mo ago

This is very interesting. What is the physics behind this? Are the aerosolized oil particles small enough or flexible enough to make it through the mask? What is effective PPE for these kind of contaminants?

Edit: answered my second question on my own: P100 masks are effective

gnabgib•1mo ago

R95/99/100 (oil resistant), P95/99/100 (oil-proof).. the N in N95 stands for "not resistant to oil".

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/NIOSH_Guide_to_the_Selection_...

jabl•1mo ago

Hooray for the Boeing 787 with its electrically powered cabin air compressor rather than using engine bleed air like other contemporary airliners.

bookofjoe•1mo ago

no paywall: https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/toxic-fumes-airplane-p...

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