So maybe median salary for ten years or something for every couple with their first kid?
> The Contracting States shall as far as possible facilitate the assimilation and naturalization of refugees. They shall in particular make every effort to expedite naturalization proceedings and to reduce as far as possible the charges and costs of such proceedings.
Sweden is a signatory and seems to be in non-compliance.
https://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/ec-residence-permit-f...
This was adopted by Italy in 2007. So while I am not sure about it I suspect it's the same for all EU countries, since immigration papers are mostly governed by EU regulations and directives. What is your source for France having mandatory permanent residency prior to naturalization (unless it's permanent in the sense of renewable indefinitely)?
Edit: indeed, this is a bill for adopting rules laid out in the EU directive on immigration and asylum.
* 2025 citizenship requirements: <https://web.archive.org/web/20250315034218/https://www.migra...>
* 2026: <https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/...>
In completely unrelated news, Arabic is now the second most spoken language in Sweden after Swedish. <http://web.archive.org/web/20210511231225/https://digitaledi...>.
>The proposal is one component of the efforts to adapt Sweden’s regulatory framework for the granting of international protection and asylum procedures to the minimum guarantees set out in EU law. The purpose of the adaptation is to create better conditions for integration and to reduce social exclusion by reducing asylum-related immigration.
Not all route for permanent residence. Only for asylum seekers. Employment or academic based route are still there it seems.
Permanent residence was more akin to citizenship in that they were permanent and mostly unconditional. The discussion in Sweden around them often came into a discussion around what the difference between citizenships and permanent residence, and if that difference was meaningful.
The practical difference between Permanent residence and citizenship was that:
Swedish citizenship allows a person to be elected into parliament, employed by the police or work in the military.
Swedish citizenship are treated by other countries as Swedish citizens according to international relationships.
Swedish citizens that live aboard can vote in Swedish elections
That was it. Without permanent residence people need to become citizens to get the same rights as citizenship, as all other form of visums has conditions and limits.
Local populations will see very different trajectories, yes. Africa will see population growth and many other places will see steep decline. Societies can choose to keep their current system and take in immigrants, or choose to keep their "national character" (or whatever) and rejig their societies so the remaining productive parts pay for increasing numbers of old people. Grifters (Brexiters, MAGA, Le Pen, etc) will attempt to sidestep such obvious tradeoffs, but they will fail, hastening the decline of these societies. So the only crisis we have is people refusing to deal with reality's tradeoffs.
Europe is in a very dire place economically and anti-immigrant anger is reaching a boiling point in many countries (easier to point fingers at brown people than face up to decades of poor policy choices you yourself voted for).
At least Sweden is in relatively "better" shape than its peers. Germany, France, the UK, are also all drinking this cocktail but much worse; fiscally insolvent, unwilling to have kids, unwilling to pivot to new economic models, and scapegoating brown people while staring down the barrel of never-ending benefits cuts and tax increases (which will further kill their economy).
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
While Americans were ritually flogging themselves for being racist during the 2010s, nobody seemed to bother asking the question "Compared to what?"
Well, it turns out in the "progressive utopia" of the Nordics, immigrants face some of the highest rates of job discrimination in the developed world, with Sweden being in the worst group [1]. The US on the other hand is all the way on the other end of the spectrum, almost egalitarian in hiring by comparison.
[1] https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-6/june/SocSci_v...
Not to mention how nothing it is compared to the cost of certain child care activities that one might have to pay for if one has a child with any health, neurological, developmental issues.
People are rightfully risk averse nowadays. Fuck the species if it just wants to bully its young into breeding.
i don't think birth rate is just because of money. never in history people had access or liberation on going childless like now [0]
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/reasons...
The same way like production of any products - if it is significantly cheaper to manufacture it say in China, it will be manufactured in China and imported, no matter what tariffs are, while domestic production will go down with overall increase of the efficiency of our civilization as a result.
The same like with any imports. Market responds to demand. China has 50M university students, US - 20M. That means that upon achieving US percentage (in probably 5-10 years) China can be having 80M students - sufficient enough to have some of that satisfy US demand for college graduates.
> People in those countries also are below replacement like India which is unprecedented.
Quick google shows that population growth in India is considered a problem, and so they actively trying to decrease birth rate.
>This is nothing to say of the social backlash mass immigration seems to be having across many countries.
Any technological (and mass migration is a result of technological progress) shifts and its consequences cause social stress. Successful societies adapt.
You need more than one bedroom to have a child, that increases the price of a home in Vancouver by 200k. What should I do with tens if thousands?
Remove commuting by encouraging remote work, incentivise dumb phone use or penalise smart phone use, create affordable property prices and secure future pensions, incentivise no televisions and create an environment where men and women can co-mingle naturally. You're right tens of thousands isn't going to cut it.
Basically apartment complexes with plenty of facilities like cafes, libraries, parks, restaurants and sports facilities and micro mobility solutions for transport surrounded by nature. Effectively reversing some of the trends we've established over the past few decades.
The reason this isn't done is because it wouldn't grow the economy, it would shrink the economy. You're effectively telling people to work less, have more leisure time and spend less.
However, it's not just money alone that is the problem. Money helps a lot, but like any complicated problem, it's got multiple front. Money for one, but another is just child care in general. This is based on my experience and other parents I interact with, but child care is fucked up. Not just costs. When I was growing up, my grand parents were very involved. They would watch my sister and I in the evenings sometimes or take us for a weekend or we would go to their house to swim in the summer. For some period, my grandparents had us in the summer while mom and dad were working. There is a phrase of, "it takes a village to raise a kid." And that village was close family and friends. Grand parents would pick us up from after school events. Aunt and uncle would watch us with their kids and my parent would watch theirs, vice-versa. It was grand parents, neighbors, aunts and uncles. Now looking at me raising my kids and my friends doing the same, it all on just the two of us (myself and spouse). Grand parents don't want shit to do with their grand kids unless it's Christmas diner. And that is a pretty common thread amongst every other parent I interact with. And day care doesn't exactly solve that. Day care solves the regularly scheduled care Monday through Friday during business hours. Not even forgetting that some places, where I live, its a 9 month wait list to get into any daycare. And then full-time care pretty much consuming and entire parent's paycheck. It doesn't solve the, dad's car broke down, Mom needs to go pick him up and help out, but can't exactly pack the kids up. When that happened to my mom and dad, mom dropped me and my sister off with my grand parents.
For now they seem to be dealing with observed problems, and applying actionable solutions. If they keep that up they may be able to resolve all manner of economic issues.
And it's not like they are in a border with an active war zone.
Sweden is just not supposed to keep people in a permanent temporary state.
(Also, many asylum seekers just get on a plane, and for them Sweden may well be their first stop)
While permanent residency can be taken away due to moving away from Sweden or for criminal activity
Only Swedish criminals can remain in Sweden - probably good for RoW
euio757•2h ago
But serious question here: What happened in Sweden that lead to this parliament move?
bwhiting2356•2h ago
ochrist•2h ago
sakex•2h ago
satvikpendem•2h ago
dataflow•2h ago
Edit: is reality too upsetting for folks? Hopefully nobody was asleep when American candidates ran on immigration policy, their constituents voted based on that, and we ended up with the current politicians and the overall status quo? Or do people not see a causal chain here?
ForHackernews•2h ago
combyn8tor•2h ago
Procrastes•2h ago
past performance is not indicative of future results
I'm not about to run out and suggest Finnish lunches or buy a tin of Surströmming for breakfast, but it might be nice to have a balanced budget.
ribs•2h ago
noncoml•2h ago
Maybe because they do not like to blindly follow the "leader", but instead prefer to judge for themselves?
Democrats don't want "bad" immigration as much as you do. No-one wants criminals or people who are unwilling to follow the law.
I am not an immigration expert, but blanket rules and blanket statements are seldom giving good results.
When the right says ban immigrants they sounds as stupid as when the left says ban billionaires.
quaverquaver•2h ago
noncoml•1h ago
AngryData•1h ago
jleyank•23m ago
AngryData•
djoldman•2h ago
All the Scandinavian countries put together have slightly more people than the NYC metro area and are extremely homogeneous in terms of ethnicity, religiosity, etc. as compared to the USA.
In short, it's never been a good policy testbed for the much much larger and more diverse USA.