Curious, as I dont want my cynicism to creep in...
An LVT is a way to produce the same economic effects without the starting point of "the state owns the land," which is hard to transition to from "the state does not own the land."
We Italians should be taking some notes as well... :)
Taxing/reducing the land can be perceived as unfair to grandma. Having young struggling more than previous generation and getting much smaller spaces can also be perceived as unfair.
Wouldn't a better solution be to more heavily tax voluntary vices? Gambling, drugs, prediction markets, cash-sink "luxury" products, parasitic mobile games, etc.? I think it's fine by just about everybody if those particular industries -- the real "bad capitalism" -- become almost unprofitable by default.
The secondary layer of "bad capitalism" is in finance, speculation, and even legal services. There's no reason that those, also, cannot be much more heavily taxed.
At the same time, do the extremely smart thing that Asian economies -- China and Korea foremost among them -- have been practicing: Subsidize technical and industrial innovation, strategic industries, etc. Just cut the red tape and fund it.
That's just taxing the poor.
In fact, it would tax the industrious poor with little recourse.
Vices, on the other hand, don't have to be engaged in, and should absolutely be discouraged.
It will take a while until we get a functional political system (i.e. parliament needs to realize coalitions are absolutely necessary to do anything), so let's just hope the french economy doesn't collapse in the mean time and its debt doesn't blow up.
It will be very interesting to watch and see if this does get implemented.
[0]: https://www.opportunity.org.nz/tax-reset [1]: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/politics_election-2026/2035492/ne...
In a dictatorship your scheme would work, in a democracy it would just prevent even more economic activity
Wasn't there another post a week ago talking about how UBI won't save us from automation? I was much more inclined to believe that one.
If people have more money (or population grows) so that demand grows while supply stays the same, prices will rise and find a new equilibrium where people can again afford and therefore buy less.
In any case, finite resources are finite regardless if we have UBI or not.
Any discussion about taxes is a complete non-starter. France needs less taxes, not more. Their entire society and business environment is completely taxed out and they still can't afford their public welfare and benefits. They need to reduce public spending in order to maybe one day, also reduce taxes.
2) LVT can fund reverse mortgages
> Any discussion about taxes is a complete non-starter. France needs less taxes, not more. Their entire society and business environment is completely taxed out and they still can't afford their public welfare and benefits. They need to reduce public spending in order to maybe one day, also reduce taxes.
Yes, most developed countries are overtaxed. They should get rid of nearly all of them and replace them with a high LVT. Near-zero regulatory complexity, paperwork, enforcement burden, or economic distortions.
I think exempting your primary residence from LVT (or capping it at the value of UBI, in that proposal) would not defeat the purpose of LVT, and would eliminate such problems.
Good economic policy is largely context independent. It is almost always a good time to tax economic rents and deregulate starting/running a business. The basic formula for success has been well established for several centuries and even the Communists managed to figure it out a big chunk of that.
It is not surprising that the established government figures seem confused. If they've let the situation devolve to the point where there is a visible problem it is strong evidence that they just don't care about good economic policy. Not in the top 10 list of priorities. And to couple that with a forecast, that probably isn't going to change any time soon.
Capitalism says buyers pay and when there are too many customers, the price goes up. This is what we are seeing, its that simple.
Some suggest to add some sort of tax to owners, but this wont help, they will of course just pass the cost onto their renters. Its pretty obvious owners dont care if you cant pay someone else will, its that simple.
The REAL problem is the concentration of living in big cities and the fact there are too many people. The same is also true of wages, wages dont go up because there will always be someone else who will do the job for the same or less be it actual wages or extra hours and other negatives.
The system is broken, we have to appreciate that all this centralisation of everything and anything is the problem. Slowly or maybe its quickly everything is becoming a monopoly of some kind.
Major cities are becoming the monopoly of employment and work, previoously it was spread across more places and more industries. Now its becoming concentrated. In Spain that means everyone wants to move to Madrid or Barca and the consequences mean too many people and too few homes. People want to live in certain places for their advantages, big cities also mean more commuting, and people want less travel time, but that means they pay more in rent. You cant win, if you have one then you lose on the other. THis is always the case in everything from commuting time, to rent, in the end most of the people lose most of the time.
What we are seeing is what happens when you have a monopoly. THe problem is people cant see who or what are the monopolies. THey think a monopoly must be a single company or person, they cant comprehend its something above that at the nationwide level, namely the structure of each country.
A perfect example is everyone in NZ is moving to Auckland, and then everyone in NZ also moves to Australia. Of course its not everyone but its alot and this affects the balance both in NZ and also in places like Sydney which grow even bigger.
The answer is to stop the centralisation, and break things up.
Fact is that the rent is currently set at what the market is willing and able to pay, regardless of what the cost to the owners is.
> And then the policy you want is simple: Tax the bad capitalism, don’t tax the good capitalism.
Tax isn’t punishment. Imagine a company which has a thousand trucks. The trucks themselves are ethically pure EVs. They pay the land value tax for the parking lot and the auto shop. But they don’t indirectly pay taxes for the use of the roads? That’s a massive wear on the road infrastructure.
It also sounds like a mechanism to induce appropriation of property of small landowners to big corporations and interests, and not sure this furthering of concentration of land and wealth is great for local communities either. It basically gives more power to those who already have more power.
The value of land is only what people make of it. It's mostly hypothetical as to what you could use it for. The driving factor in land "value" is location, which is an artificial factor created by humans. That same empty lot in a city that everyone complains about needing to have a land value tax assessed against it is pennies on the dollar our in the county. Perhaps we should look at efficient use of resources and population distribution policies rather than focusing on the symptoms rather than the problem.
> The government is much more likely to be the one using threat of force to take your property for lack of tax payment than anyone else is for any other reason.
Physical coercion is much more common to enforce evictions than nonpayment of taxes. This is because landlords offloaded the responsibility of enforcement and security back to the peasants in exchange for having rule of law.
> The value of land is only what people make of it.
This entire paragraph is meaningless. More valuable land is more valuable because it's more productive. It is more productive not because of the actions of the owner of that land, but because of either 1) nature's productive power, or 2) the surroundings of that land (nearby amenities, infrastructure, employers, etc). In either case, the owner of the plot of land did not produce the value of the raw land. They are not entitled to upside they did not produce.
This shifts the optimal point for sale, but if there is explosive growth they theoretically still aren't forced to sell early, they can still capture all that growth
What this scheme prevents is them holding onto the property forever after the neighborhood gentrified. Which the author likely considers a good thing in their framework, because the land generates more economic value in other hands. The original land owner gets a payout and is forced to move. Just like a renter would be forced to move, just that the land owner gets a big payout from the land value increase
With the caveat that “the government” should somehow represent the will of society (I know, basic democracy seems like a big ask today), this seems like how it should be. The land belongs to us humans together, and if someone wants to control it exclusively, there should be something in return for the rest of us.
Buy a pack of cigs in New York (I think it's almost $20, now). Most of that is tax. People vape, a lot, here. I know that pre-rolled cigarettes have been heavily taxed in many countries, for decades, so they sell loose tobacco and rolling papers.
Gambling also tends to get taxed a lot.
There's lots of folks that think prostitution should be legalized, so it can be taxed. The same argument was made for pot. I'm pretty sure that legal pot is heavily taxed. I have heard that illegal pot is cheaper.
It's not an easy solution. If it was easy, it would have been done, a long time ago.
"There's always an easy solution to every human problem; Neat, plausible and wrong."
-H. L. Mencken
You and I can theorize how black market analogs might somehow exist, but they wouldn't have 1% of the reach they currently enjoy.
I also think that conspicuous consumption in the form of yachts and $40,000 handbags is, in truth, a vice -- and one that can generate a lot of tax revenue, and only be black-marketed away with severe difficulty.
rjbwork•42m ago
A great example near me is in midtown Atlanta. For decades there have been empty lots that just sat empty and empty and empty until enough economic growth happened around them that their owners finally sold it for development. Even today, there are empty lots and vacant decrepit buildings in some of the most valuable locations for hundreds of miles because we are not taxing the value of the land these people are accruing.
lukasm•29m ago
TFNA•21m ago
keybored•2m ago
Joe Beergut sits in front of the television (scene from 1995). Is it relevant that he worked hard from eight to five prior to that? Probably.
giantg2•5m ago
bmacho•3m ago
giantg2•25m ago
Taxing something based on hypothetical value is an extremely dangerous proposition. Why not tax people an imputed income tax based on what we thing a person's labor is worth? It makes more sense to tax money when money is actually made.
Land value taxes are fundamentally opposed to freedom and liberty by implicitly forcing an owner to do use the land for use that others want based on hypothetical uses.
orson2077•21m ago
giantg2•15m ago
orson2077•10m ago
A transfer tax is decent, but it can be sidestepped by just holding land and selling when the tax changes. Land holding is a long game.
forgotusername6•9m ago
KoolKat23•14m ago