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The Business Case for Vanilla JavaScript

https://lewiscampbell.tech/blog/250430.html
6•LAC-Tech•4mo ago

Comments

copypaper•4mo ago
I would personally never touch a frontend not written with a framework. Sounds like a terrible developer experience--especially with a team. But from reading your article, it sounds like your issue is with React itself. I would recommend you try Svelte, it sounds like what you're looking for. It's as close to vanilla js as you can get with all the benefits of a framework.
LAC-Tech•4mo ago
What benefits of a framework?

I think that's why I wrote this - I almost completely fail to see them.

proc0•4mo ago
I think React caved in to wider adoption pressure to introduce abstractions that are intuitive on the surface level but are costly in terms of large scale complexity.

> It's "declarative" right up until you're debugging stateful hooks, or resorting to useRef, or trying to reason about when a "component" re-renders

Maybe they should have modularized the core library more and have these things be separate, because the core idea of a uniflow pattern with reactivity is good.

I think what happened, at least in frontend, is that the industry pushed away from having engineers do any design or architecting on the frontend. All of these high level patterns have been "outsourced" to frameworks, and the result usually is something that has trouble scaling and adjusting to whatever domain it's in.

LAC-Tech•4mo ago
Maybe they should have modularized the core library more and have these things be separate, because the core idea of a uniflow pattern with reactivity is good.

That's what SolidJS does. IE the signal implementation is completely stand alone. I feel like it's better at doing what react purports to do then react is.

* think what happened, at least in frontend, is that the industry pushed away from having engineers do any design or architecting on the frontend. All of these high level patterns have been "outsourced" to frameworks*

I don't think react patterns are particularly high level, or do they save you from architecture. Whether it's vanilla JS or react, you still have to design.

proc0•4mo ago
Oh I haven't looked at Solidjs yet, interesting will take a look. And yeah you may still need to design your application, but having hooks be something that is out-of-the-box pushes you into certain patterns and needs to be actively ignored to avoid its design influence. I've worked in large codebases where they make almost everything into hooks, and they start getting ridiculous, breaking composability but at the same time giving the illusion that you are making your code more modular.
GianFabien•4mo ago
I write web front-ends for industrial embedded systems. So my experience might differ from business WebApps.

In my experience it requires a longer learning curve for the various frameworks than to simply learn the relevant Web API. My learning is very much JIT and over time I have built up a robust class library that gets my stuff done. When I get stuck ChatGPT suggests fixes that sometimes work and spare me from losing more hair.

LAC-Tech•4mo ago
My experience too - part of what I found is how much about how react worked I'd forgotten. But the browser itself was easier to pick up.

OmniFocus MCP

https://github.com/themotionmachine/OmniFocus-MCP
1•sidechaining•1m ago•0 comments

JPL Wasn't Making a Fashion Statement (1997)

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-oct-17-me-43638-story.html
1•thunderbong•3m ago•0 comments

Morlock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock
1•danielschreber•6m ago•0 comments

Massive Attack Turns Concert into Facial Recognition Surveillance Experiment

https://www.gadgetreview.com/massive-attack-turns-concert-into-facial-recognition-surveillance-ex...
2•loteck•7m ago•0 comments

Wall Street Raises Alarm on Trump Push to End Quarterly Earnings

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-09-15/wall-street-raises-alarm-on-trump-push-to-end-...
2•wslh•8m ago•1 comments

Safari 26.0 Release Notes

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-26-release-notes
1•vFunct•11m ago•1 comments

Why a slow-paced digital transition may be best for democracy

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/digital-democracy/why-a-slow-paced-digital-transition-may-be-best-fo...
2•giuliomagnifico•12m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Pooshit – sync local code to remote Docker containers

2•marktolson•13m ago•1 comments

John Mew, Unorthodox Orthodontist Who Went Viral, Dies at 96

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/health/john-mew-dead.html
3•bookofjoe•14m ago•2 comments

Charlie Kirk Assassination Sparks Social Media Crackdown

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/charlie-kirk-assassination-sparks
5•tareqak•17m ago•1 comments

Open AI study on on ChatGPT usage

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/09/seven-things-we-learned-from-openais-first-study-on-chatgpt-us...
1•datadrivenangel•20m ago•0 comments

Google Tops $3T Market Cap as Gemini Takes Top Spot in Apple Store

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/google-stock-new-high-gemini-apple-app-store-nano-banana/
1•decimalenough•22m ago•0 comments

Malware in Ngx-Bootstrap

https://github.com/advisories/GHSA-6m4g-vm7c-f8w6
1•lambdaone•28m ago•1 comments

The Revised Report on Scheme or An UnCommon Lisp (1985) [pdf]

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/5600/AIM-848.pdf
3•swatson741•29m ago•0 comments

The idea of /usr/sbin has failed in practice

https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/UsrSbinFailedInPractice
2•naves•30m ago•1 comments

Claude is now generally available in Xcode

https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-in-xcode
2•adocomplete•31m ago•0 comments

William Gibson Reads Neuromancer

http://bearcave.com/bookrev/neuromancer/neuromancer_audio.html
26•exvi•31m ago•0 comments

Imperial Tyranny, Korean Humiliation

https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/english_editorials/1218475.html
24•anigbrowl•32m ago•4 comments

Spain's PM called for Israel to be barred from international sports competitions

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/15/spains-pm-criticised-after-vuelta-a-espana-race-aba...
9•belter•34m ago•0 comments

Realtime Linux Beyond Preempt_rt: Xenomai's Dual-Kernel Approach [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKsLTfrOiE
2•st_goliath•35m ago•0 comments

Frontier Models Are Not Commoditized

https://www.arfniia.com/models-are-not-commoditized
1•shanbin•36m ago•0 comments

How to Debug Chez Scheme Programs (2002)

https://www.scheme.com/debug/debug.html
2•swatson741•36m ago•0 comments

Destroy data on old laptops or face major liability

https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/14/destroy_data_company_laptops_or_else/
3•ohjeez•37m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Cut AI API costs 90% with intelligent model routing

https://apicrusher.com/
1•bytecounter•40m ago•0 comments

Just Get a Partial Fix and Move On

https://chillphysicsenjoyer.substack.com/p/just-get-a-partial-fix-and-move-on
1•crescit_eundo•43m ago•0 comments

Noise Cancelling a Fan

https://chillphysicsenjoyer.substack.com/p/noise-cancelling-a-fan
1•crescit_eundo•44m ago•0 comments

Try to Prove Math with Computers

https://chillphysicsenjoyer.substack.com/p/try-to-prove-math-with-computers
1•crescit_eundo•45m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: What Single File Web Apps do you know of?

3•calebm•47m ago•3 comments

The Only Way to Build Trust Is to Give Trust

https://www.davidpoll.com/2025/09/the-only-way-to-build-trust-is-to-give-trust/
2•depoll•49m ago•0 comments

CBS-based FHE compiler with custom ISA and transformers-like parallelism

https://twitter.com/ravitals/status/1965828241002037344
4•abhihereandnow•57m ago•0 comments