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The Business Case for Vanilla JavaScript

https://lewiscampbell.tech/blog/250430.html
6•LAC-Tech•7mo ago

Comments

copypaper•7mo ago
I would personally never touch a frontend not written with a framework. Sounds like a terrible developer experience--especially with a team. But from reading your article, it sounds like your issue is with React itself. I would recommend you try Svelte, it sounds like what you're looking for. It's as close to vanilla js as you can get with all the benefits of a framework.
LAC-Tech•7mo ago
What benefits of a framework?

I think that's why I wrote this - I almost completely fail to see them.

proc0•7mo ago
I think React caved in to wider adoption pressure to introduce abstractions that are intuitive on the surface level but are costly in terms of large scale complexity.

> It's "declarative" right up until you're debugging stateful hooks, or resorting to useRef, or trying to reason about when a "component" re-renders

Maybe they should have modularized the core library more and have these things be separate, because the core idea of a uniflow pattern with reactivity is good.

I think what happened, at least in frontend, is that the industry pushed away from having engineers do any design or architecting on the frontend. All of these high level patterns have been "outsourced" to frameworks, and the result usually is something that has trouble scaling and adjusting to whatever domain it's in.

LAC-Tech•7mo ago
Maybe they should have modularized the core library more and have these things be separate, because the core idea of a uniflow pattern with reactivity is good.

That's what SolidJS does. IE the signal implementation is completely stand alone. I feel like it's better at doing what react purports to do then react is.

* think what happened, at least in frontend, is that the industry pushed away from having engineers do any design or architecting on the frontend. All of these high level patterns have been "outsourced" to frameworks*

I don't think react patterns are particularly high level, or do they save you from architecture. Whether it's vanilla JS or react, you still have to design.

proc0•7mo ago
Oh I haven't looked at Solidjs yet, interesting will take a look. And yeah you may still need to design your application, but having hooks be something that is out-of-the-box pushes you into certain patterns and needs to be actively ignored to avoid its design influence. I've worked in large codebases where they make almost everything into hooks, and they start getting ridiculous, breaking composability but at the same time giving the illusion that you are making your code more modular.
GianFabien•7mo ago
I write web front-ends for industrial embedded systems. So my experience might differ from business WebApps.

In my experience it requires a longer learning curve for the various frameworks than to simply learn the relevant Web API. My learning is very much JIT and over time I have built up a robust class library that gets my stuff done. When I get stuck ChatGPT suggests fixes that sometimes work and spare me from losing more hair.

LAC-Tech•7mo ago
My experience too - part of what I found is how much about how react worked I'd forgotten. But the browser itself was easier to pick up.

Ask HN: How do I make LLM write long code for my tasks?

1•DenisDolya•2m ago•0 comments

I Built a Distributed AI Search Engine to Kill SEO. Turn Your Website into Agent

https://www.aipetris.com/post/12
1•yaruchyk•4m ago•0 comments

Elon Musk at Montana Jobs Summit (2013) [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWCCcgVwNJ0
1•nomilk•7m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Memory System for Claude Code and Other CLIs

https://github.com/RLabs-Inc/memory
1•RustyNail96•8m ago•1 comments

Russia blocks Snapchat, along with Roblox and FaceTime

https://meduza.io/en/news/2025/12/04/russia-blocks-snapchat-along-with-roblox-and-facetime
2•cnr•12m ago•0 comments

Show HN: We've Built First AI Agent for Mobile Apps

https://kuralit.com/
1•_karthikeyans_•13m ago•0 comments

Residential IP RDP – Real ISP Home Network Access – Rdpextra

1•EVAN1098•15m ago•0 comments

Have Top Chinese AI Researchers Stayed in the United States?

https://carnegieendowment.org/emissary/2025/12/china-ai-researchers-us-talent-pool?lang=en
1•hunglee2•16m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Meeting notes and transcripts straight into Obsidian

https://obsidian.md/plugins?search=granola
2•tomelliot•17m ago•0 comments

TinyLife6502. GOL in 114 Bytes

https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=88104
1•orac81•17m ago•1 comments

Original PoCs for React2Shell CVE-2025-55182

https://github.com/lachlan2k/React2Shell-CVE-2025-55182-original-poc
1•dbushell•20m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Atlas4D – Open-source 4D spatiotemporal platform on PostgreSQL

https://github.com/crisbez/atlas4d-base
2•atlas4d•21m ago•0 comments

Show HN: TaskWand – Generate n8n workflows using RAG on 2k+ real examples

https://taskwand.io/
1•ronanren•21m ago•0 comments

Vibe code like it's 1986

https://vibecommander.dev
1•fatliverfreddy•24m ago•0 comments

SedaiBasic2: A fast BASIC interpreter with a pure register-based VM

https://github.com/camauri/SedaiBasic2
1•camauri•25m ago•1 comments

Japanese Game co. asks applicants to draw in person to avoid generative AI fraud

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/mid-size-game-company-in-japan-asks-potential-recruits-to-dra...
1•Geekette•26m ago•0 comments

A new jailbreak has been released for iOS 17.0 and 16.7 RC (20H18)

https://old.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/1pej2jq/a_new_jailbreak_has_been_released_for_ios_170...
1•remark5396•28m ago•1 comments

My mom doesn't like cat videos anymore

4•FrankyHollywood•29m ago•1 comments

Lisp Style and Design

https://archive.org/details/miller-and-benson-1990-lisp-style-design
1•todsacerdoti•31m ago•0 comments

The Return of Procedural Programming [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQPHtAxOZZw
2•tosh•32m ago•0 comments

The Road to Zig 1.0 (2019) [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv2I7qTux7g
1•tosh•33m ago•0 comments

Why Does A.I. Write Like That?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/03/magazine/chatbot-writing-style.html
1•laurenzse•35m ago•0 comments

Shredded Cheese Journalism

https://dkdc.dev/posts/shredded-cheese-journalism/
1•dkdcio•37m ago•0 comments

Unredacted Magazine Issue 008 SEP 2025 [pdf]

https://unredactedmagazine.com/issues/008.pdf
1•signa11•38m ago•0 comments

Why We Can't Quit Excel

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2025-microsoft-excel-ai-software/
8•thm•38m ago•2 comments

Trump reveals what he wants for the world

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/12/05/trump-reveals-national-security-strategy-western-hemisph...
1•breppp•40m ago•0 comments

Show HN: TypeScript runtime that syncs state for your multiplayer app/game

https://martini-kit.com/
1•yaoke259•41m ago•0 comments

Go's escape analysis and why my function return worked

https://bonniesimon.in/blog/go-escape-analysis
1•bonniesimon•42m ago•0 comments

Rebuilding our documentation site using AI

https://endor.dev/blog/rebuilding-our-docs
1•angelmm•45m ago•0 comments

Framework Design Guidelines

https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/main/docs/coding-guidelines/framework-design-guidelines-di...
1•jpeter•46m ago•0 comments