A lot of this is in Kondylis (30+ years old)
A republican ad can cast a standard white nuclear family wearing some blue jeans and their base will love it. Democrats don’t have a super obvious cast (and message).
> The model takes into account the fact that parties are historically connected to specific social groups: the right with the upper classes and religious conservatives, the left with workers and progressives.
I would posit that both the right and the left have "upper classes" and "workers"
The last paragraph even says:
> “The left,” Tabellini concludes, “has underestimated the fact that culture can matter more than income.
Seems like mixed messaging.
The true goal is what is now unfolding in the USA: the rich take over the government and democracy will be destroyed.
Congrats Peter Thiel. You won.
Meanwhile the temporary embarrassed millionaires of HN will still defend what is happening, they still think they will somehow come out on top. They think they won’t get hurt.
I wonder if I will witnesses a turnaround for the better in my lifetime.
Now the goal is to raid the Social Security Trust Fund.
Is an interesting conclusion, since that seems askew from the kind of left which has predominated recently. Though it may amount to analysis of the modern left which says that they permit cultural identity to be the most salient political factor if you're one of their favoured "oppressed identities" whereas, if you arent, then you have to be analysed in purely economic terms.
I'm not entirely convinced by the analysis. Is a politics of identity displacing traditional "economic politics" -- or is it that economic politics has become a matter of identity? Eg., consider that 20-year-olds today face a society economically designed to privilege certain identities through corporate affirmative actions and the like. Policies who could only plausibly morally target the older generations where salary gaps exist -- yet have a disproportionate impact on younger groups with no such disparities (or the converse, as in the UK where young women slighly out-earn young men).
And eg., do people feel immigration has created economic deprivation at home (and so on) -- is all this just not a displaced class analysis?
We might assume not because, by economic analysis, immigration cannot really explain the "economic concerns" which are attributed to it -- but do the public know this? Or is the failure of the welfare state, of popular government policy and regulation really just misattributed to immigration (or, to these "other" identities)? Is this just a matter of spurious correlation: as western birthrates plummet, goverments are heavily endebted and unable to provide high quality services, the public observe increased immigration?
This analysis fails to realise the degree to which these "identities" have become specailisations of economic classes by policy, law and accident.
Maybe they're not "governing as if it’s true", but their statements certainly do. See for instance, the "Kamala is for they/them" attack ad? Granted, it was an attack ad and Kamala moderated her stance in the 2024 election, but her statements in 2020 was far left of the average voter, which was why it was why it was so effective.
Even if that's true, those kind of positions are a notable and visible part of progressive/Democratic culture.
For instance, the famous "in this house we believe" yard sign (https://www.amazon.com/Debbies-Designs-18x24-inch-Weatherpro...). "No human is illegal" can be reasonably interpreted to imply "denying the basic right for country to have an immigration policy."
It was also pretty well documented in the 2024 postmortems that people and groups who espoused those extreme positions were very constraining on "democrats...with notable power."
Reasonably? No.
Sorry, yes. Given the political charge around the term "illegal," the sign repudiates the status of "illegal immigrant," and if you can't have illegal immigrants (or whatever euphemism of the day is), you can't have an immigration policy.
No it isn't. It's what you need to interpret the sign. It's not list of literal statements statement of clear positions, but a thing that plays off vibes and associations to send a political message without being super direct (at least when it was new).
But if you think my interpretation absurd (which it is not), what you you think "no human is illegal" means, in the context of the sign?
The problem may be that the wide use of these kinds of vague signals and slogans invited misinterpretation.
[EDIT] To ground this, the claim is that it's reasonable to interpret "no human is illegal" as "denying the basic right for country to have an immigration policy". This is a "reasonable" leap reached by following "what you need to interpret the sign". Not a hostile interpretation by someone who already decided what's what and is working backwards from that.
I don't get it. Are you conceding that independents and Republicans might genuinely believe that "No human is illegal" means all migration should be legal? By "genuinely believe ", I don't mean a maximally uncharitable interpretation either, but at the same time I also don't expect them to go out of their way to figure out exactly what is meant by "No human is illegal".
Many people on both sides of the aisle have cried out for "immigration reform", even "comprehensive immigration reform". What do they mean by that? We've seen various keywords fly by, like "amnesty" or "quotas" or something.
So why do we need that reform? Are too many domestic jobs occupied by foreigners? Are illegals committing violent/sexual crimes at an alarming rate? Are foreigners dangerous to national security or stability? Which foreigners and why?
People protested the so-called "Muslim ban" but in reality, all immigration policy must differentiate among regions and nations and allocate resources/quotas appropriately.
People on the left can go down to "The Wall" and give "humanitarian aid" to immigrants who may "die in the desert" but that's not really where the immigration crisis is [if indeed there is one at all,] because most "illegals" are people who got here legally and then ... overstayed their visa for some reason.
I believe that immigration is just another wedge issue and talking point, without enough substance presented to the public for us to make real decisions about it. Real immigration policy is complex, nuanced, and someone in Congress is going to need to stack up a "Reform Bill" the size of Obamacare and then pass it, so that we'll know what's in it.
Really? This time around the discourse around Trump's immigration polices seem to be based around practicalities (eg. American competitiveness, impact on the labor market) rather than principles. Even in the cases where it's based on principles, they're principles like due process rather than "-isms" you listed.
I assure you that very few of the people with those signs want open borders. That's a position held by almost nobody.
Back to the point: when did the democrats shift to any of these alleged positions? They didn't. It's what the opposition says they did, but they in-fact didn't.
That's a distinction without a difference. If Democratic voters and activists are pushing for a given position, it's cold comfort to the independent or Republican that it's not an official position of the Democratic party (whatever that might mean). Just look at Project 2025. It was produced by the Heritage Foundation, a right-leaning think tank that is technically independent of the GOP. Trump even distanced himself from it during the campaign. Does that mean Democrats aren't right to worry about it, because it wasn't an official position?
Look at the things you're comparing: a misreading of a somewhat-common yard sign plus what Fox News and Mark Levin say the democrats support, versus a concerted effort by a highly influential prominent think-tank that involved so very many top folks in Trump's campaign that his statements distancing himself from it were never anything but blatant lies.
Show me something actually equivalent, and you'll have a point. Find me the most-influential think tank you can that supports stuff like "abolishing the police force" or "denying the basic right for country to have an immigration policy". CFR? Brookings? Atlantic Council? IDK, find one. Find a policy statement on that stuff, Democrats usually put tons of policy docs on their campaign websites because they're nerds who incorrectly think normal people both can and are willing to read, so it should be well-documented. After all, the claim was that they shifted their campaign focus to that! To "abolishing the police force" (?!) and such. Not that a few individual democrats with little or no power said some things, maybe.
> That's a distinction without a difference.
Once you erase the long list of material fucking differences, sure.
> If Democratic voters and activists are pushing for a given position
ALMOST NONE ARE. The person who "deny[ies] the basic right for country to have an immigration policy" is vanishingly rare and you'll have at least as much finding them among the committed libertarian sorts as even the farther-left end of democrats—still not much luck, but about as much.
It's correct to say it's a problem for democrats that people think they hold these positions. It's incorrect to say it's because they in-fact do. It's because of effective propaganda.
You folks are assigning a caricature of their positions to them and then blaming them for adopting those caricatured positions. WT literal F.
Organized labor still seems supportive of left leaning candidates. If they had "abandoned" them you'd think it would show.
I don't buy into these ideas that <observes behavior that doesn't jive in some way> must be directly related to <pet peeve of mine>.
Voters behave in unexpected ways all the time.
A left-leaning candidate that has "abandoned" worker's causes is still a better prospect than a candidate that openly opposed to them.
I find it odd that so few people vote in the US - like I said, if all candidates are terrible, one is certainly less terrible and your job, as citizen, is to vote for the lesser evil to prevent the worse one to get power.
Was Clinton "abandoning the working class"? It doesn't feel like it, but it certainly could be construed that way.
OTOH, Trump's statement was a bold faced lie. He didn't save coal mining jobs, coal mining jobs dropped significantly during his first term.
But it should have lost him the votes in 2024. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
It's not unique to the right, although the right wing messaging is simpler and more broadly applicable. Progressives in recent years like to characterize everything as discriminatory. Every issue from arresting criminals, to awarding contracts to schooling is delivered through that lens. The reactionary message is a variant of the effective Bill Clinton style "I feel your pain", with the prescription that you need more pain to get to some nebulous future where your problems go away. The difference is that the progressive message is delivered to the slice of demographic and resonates mostly there. The reactionary message is broadly appealing to everyone's anxiety -- even people who dislike MAGA often identify with the problems identified.
It about the delivery. The best example of this is the much-maligned (in the right wing space) 1619 project. Nobody actually reads books, so the soundbites matter, and by tying the work to the relatively narrow racial component in those soundbites, it weaponized the topic for racists. Those MAGA white guys need to have the irony shoved in their face. That the same class of rich aristocrats who pushed their indentured servant ancestors to the periphery of civilization, then conscripted them for the freedom to own other humans to suppress their wages, and that they have more in common with the decendents of slaves than some land barons.
But that didn't happen, and the messaging picked up and hammered by the right is: "Those" people (pick your villain) want to steal your heritage and hate everything that is America. Obviously, that resonates with alot of people.
> “The left,” Tabellini concludes, “has underestimated the fact that culture can matter more than income. But as long as it insists on talking only about inequality, without addressing the identity theme, it will continue to lose out among its own former constituency.”
In my experiences, the Left / Democrats have abandoned the wage workers and labor quite along time ago. The justification was that Republicans catered to Big Business, along with their near-endless coffers of money. Democrats had to cater to their own groups that had money, and labor was NOT one of them.
Another money issue is that, in general, democrats tax the 50%-99% heavier to redistribute to the 0%-50% class. Republicans undo that. Yet nobody touches that 1% at the top, so real effective changes are really never seen, and haven't been seen since FDR.
Basically, I think culture has taken over income as a major political point because both politician groups have been able to phase it out by intentionally refusing to address it. Something else took hold, and that's identity politics.
If people saw massive, rapid change from taxing the 1% and real monetary gains quickly, identity would be shoved by the wayside quite fast.
There could be some movement on this. Trump has suggested a 2.6% increase on the top 0.2%
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathangoldman/2025/05/09/3-key-...
However I should point that this is not an American-only issue. Poor people are strong supporters of the AfD in Germany, Bolsonaro in Southern Brazil, the National Rally in France, Erdogan in Turkey, Bukele in El Salvador, Orban in Hungary, etc. On the last Canadian election a great part of the votes lost by the socialist NDP went to the Conservatives, not to the Liberals.
And, also, is not new. Mussolini, Franco, Vargas (Brazil), Peron (Argentina) and other fascist dictators had a strong support from poor people. Gramsci complained a lot about it.
My take: what poor people like in these strong men is a feeling of stability and security. They all promise to be a guardian about some sort of external threat: immigrants, criminals, minorities, etc.
Poor people are scared and they desperately want stability.
Source? All the accounts I've read say that they fled to the liberals because they were afraid of the conservatives winning.
I stress: it wasn't all of them, it was a great part. Maybe the majority went Liberal, but still a great part went Conservative.
Edit: now it makes sense. It's getting worse, in particular downvoting. We still need to learn to discuss difficult topics in a civil manner.
austin-cheney•2h ago
EDIT
Ironically, as this comment receives down votes the comments rising to the top resolve to factors of identity.
louwrentius•2h ago
Not very intelligent.
That’s the real irony.
austin-cheney•1h ago
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-els...
evanjrowley•1h ago
Finally, the relationship between intelligence and political attitudes is most likely not fixed in some simple way, but probably changes across time and context.
austin-cheney•1h ago
evanjrowley•1h ago
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