America has been behind in the auto industry for decades. EVs could have given the American auto industry a fighting chance to pull ahead, but for some reason, we have a ton of people who couldn't point to the location spark plug on an engine who have VERY strong opinions on internal combustion engines because for some reason, EVs, and oil company profits have become politicized. Now China will become a formidable producer of vehicles around the world.
Go America.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
If you had told me that I was going to be a US citizen cheering on China against the US, I would have been somewhat incredulous, but here we are. I suppose you could say it’s commentary or observations on how quickly the political winds can shift.
floxy•6mo ago
I mean, maybe it should continue, but aren't we forgetting that this isn't the first time the EV tax credit went away? At one time, it only applied to the first 200,000 EVs that a company produced.
If nothing else, at least we can appreciate less-hyperbolic approach to "news" back in 2018...
>But the credit was never meant to be permanent, and so a phase-out plan was drawn up, which would be triggered when an automaker delivered the 200,000th eligible car. Tesla is now the first to hit this mark. GM is close, too, while Nissan, Ford, and others still have a ways to go.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
Do you believe in climate change? How fast should we try to mitigate it?
Rapid EV deployment pays dividends not only in cleaner air and reduced greenhouse gas emissions, but also energy security and a reduction of transportation costs at scale.
China knows this, they are smart. The US? Not so smart.
robocat•6mo ago
The incentives/disincentives have to match the emissions.
Cheaper new cars through EV purchase incentives often don't reduce emissions.
An purchase incentive which makes a second car cheap is worse for the environment. Incentives need to help encourage low emission mileage.
An aligned incentive could be to increase taxes on petroleum products.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
> An aligned incentive could be to increase taxes on petroleum products.
There is no political will for a carbon tax. A solution that is politically impossible is not a solution.
If tax credit incentives don't achieve lower emissions, then scrapping the credits is sensible.
I tried to find a study on whether EVs do actually decrease total carbon emissions overall in the US. Embodied carbon, low mileage (second car?), high emission electricity generation, how profits are spent, etcetera, can peversely cause increased emissions.
One figure I found was: Teslas 8,786 annual miles compared with 11,642 for gasoline cars (in their sample). In 2022, the average driver in the U.S. drove 13,596 miles. Incentivising very low mileage users with high carbon footprint manufacture would be environmentally unsound.
> In terms of emissions, we estimate that eliminating the EV tax credits would increase 2030 emissions by
20.3 million metric tons (mmt) vs. the 2030 baseline forecast; eliminating all the policies raises emissions
by a total of 44.1 mmt.
robocat•6mo ago
The amounts are irrelevant, so your snippet is just scare figures. What is relevant is whether the $ spent to save Y metric tons makes sense.
The first line of the table on page 7 of your link shows EV Credits were going to cost 168.5 billion to save 1.0 mmt CO2 Emissions. I'm not sure why they mention 20 mmt in your snippet.
I tried to find something good to compare against but I'm no expert. From looking at carbon credit prices I suspect that there are better ways to reduce CO2 if you want to spend 168500 million dollars.
jleyank•6mo ago
I assume the political environment for the next 2-4 years will make public assistance wrt charger networks (or the changes to the power grid to help such) pretty much zero. So, in addition to all of the increased difficulties in purchasing EV's, there won't be any help wrt range extension. Hopefully, they won't rip up what's already in place.
bigyabai•6mo ago
Charging networks shouldn't need public assistance. They are privately owned, for-profit infrastructure that can stay well away from my tax dollars and national debt, thank you.
platevoltage•6mo ago
America? Fall behind in the auto industry?
America has been behind in the auto industry for decades. EVs could have given the American auto industry a fighting chance to pull ahead, but for some reason, we have a ton of people who couldn't point to the location spark plug on an engine who have VERY strong opinions on internal combustion engines because for some reason, EVs, and oil company profits have become politicized. Now China will become a formidable producer of vehicles around the world.
Go America.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
floxy•6mo ago
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17563908/tesla-federal-ta...
If nothing else, at least we can appreciate less-hyperbolic approach to "news" back in 2018...
>But the credit was never meant to be permanent, and so a phase-out plan was drawn up, which would be triggered when an automaker delivered the 200,000th eligible car. Tesla is now the first to hit this mark. GM is close, too, while Nissan, Ford, and others still have a ways to go.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
Rapid EV deployment pays dividends not only in cleaner air and reduced greenhouse gas emissions, but also energy security and a reduction of transportation costs at scale.
China knows this, they are smart. The US? Not so smart.
robocat•6mo ago
Cheaper new cars through EV purchase incentives often don't reduce emissions.
An purchase incentive which makes a second car cheap is worse for the environment. Incentives need to help encourage low emission mileage.
An aligned incentive could be to increase taxes on petroleum products.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
There is no political will for a carbon tax. A solution that is politically impossible is not a solution.
https://epic.uchicago.edu/insights/2024-poll-americans-views...
https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/06/23/two-thirds-of...
robocat•6mo ago
I tried to find a study on whether EVs do actually decrease total carbon emissions overall in the US. Embodied carbon, low mileage (second car?), high emission electricity generation, how profits are spent, etcetera, can peversely cause increased emissions.
One figure I found was: Teslas 8,786 annual miles compared with 11,642 for gasoline cars (in their sample). In 2022, the average driver in the U.S. drove 13,596 miles. Incentivising very low mileage users with high carbon footprint manufacture would be environmentally unsound.
toomuchtodo•6mo ago
> In terms of emissions, we estimate that eliminating the EV tax credits would increase 2030 emissions by 20.3 million metric tons (mmt) vs. the 2030 baseline forecast; eliminating all the policies raises emissions by a total of 44.1 mmt.
robocat•6mo ago
The first line of the table on page 7 of your link shows EV Credits were going to cost 168.5 billion to save 1.0 mmt CO2 Emissions. I'm not sure why they mention 20 mmt in your snippet.
I tried to find something good to compare against but I'm no expert. From looking at carbon credit prices I suspect that there are better ways to reduce CO2 if you want to spend 168500 million dollars.