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Show HN: Verifiable server roundtrip demo for a decision interruption system

https://github.com/veeduzyl-hue/decision-assistant-roundtrip-demo
1•veeduzyl•55s ago•0 comments

Impl Rust – Avro IDL Tool in Rust via Antlr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmKvw73V394
1•todsacerdoti•59s ago•0 comments

Stories from 25 Years of Software Development

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minikeyvalue

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Neomacs: GPU-accelerated Emacs with inline video, WebKit, and terminal via wgpu

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1•evalexec•11m ago•0 comments

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3•pseudolus•30m ago•1 comments

PID Controller

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Kubernetes MCP Server

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Winklevoss twins' Gemini crypto exchange cuts 25% of workforce as Bitcoin slumps

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3•obscurette•49m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Ask HN: Stripe and Chargebacks

2•gtech1•8mo ago
Can anyone shed some light as to why Stripe hits its customers with extra fees for getting a chargeback ?

Furthermore, is there any instance when a bank won't side with its customer ?

We are a SaaS, been with Stripe for 10 years or so. Our chargeback rate is 0.00001% or something silly like that, maybe 1 chargeback every 2-3 years out of thousands of transactions per month.

We are a legitimate business selling a very much wanted service. Users have the option to cancel from their billing panel whenever they want, we send billing reminders 30/14/7/3 days before

This user didn't see the renewal notice or something, who knows. The service was still active, still being used, he gets charged ( 25$ ), they wait 3-4 days and do a chargeback claiming he cancelled.

Stripe reverses the charge, hits us with chargeback fee as well, ask us to send proof to the bank to dispute the chargeback. How can you prove a negative ? Aka, how can you prove the customer DIDN'T send in a cancellation notice or logged in to cancel. We just sent service activity logs showing the service was still being used.

We wrote to the customer asking what's going on. No answer.

We locked the service. The customer logs in to the billing interface ( which remains active for allowing users to update their CC in case of problems), he adds in his CC again AND pays the last invoice again. Then the next day he does a second chargeback. More fees.

Meanwhile Stripe gets back to us saying the bank rule against us with this reason:

Summary of New Information:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE. THE MERCHANT S RESPONSE FAILS TO REMEDY THE DISPUTE. THE CARDHOLDER CANCELLED ON THE DATE PROVIDED ON OUR DISPUTE QUESTIONNAIRE. THE CARDHOLDER IS NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PROOF OF CANCELLATION. THE MERCHANT S LIMITED CANCELLATION POLICY BEARS NO RELEVANCE IN A DISPUTE OF THIS NATURE. FULL CREDIT IS DUE

Is this nuts or what ?

Why are we getting fscked sideways by Stripe, BoA & the customer ?

Comments

NAHWheatCracker•8mo ago
Regarding the customer, who knows? Unless they reply to you, you're guessing. It could be a legitimate case of a stolen card or they could deliberately trying use your service without paying. In this case, it sounds like you should indefinitely disable that user unless they explain.

Regarding the bank, I assume they will almost always side with the customer, lest they lose their business. There's no nuance, they aren't going to spend much time understanding your logs because there's no upside for them.

Regarding Stripe, I assume they are mostly passing along costs.

Given your chargeback rate, I don't see why you should lose any sleep over this, it's a cost of doing business.

gtech1•8mo ago
I'm more curious from the bank's point of view what kind of proof they wanted us to provide, and how can they not require any proof from their own customer
pestatije•8mo ago
chargeback of $25 out of thousands of transactions per month? 1 chargeback every 2-3 years?...man you dont know how good you have it...now imagine Stripe cancelling ur account because of too many chargebacks. thats actually being fscked by Stripe, you are complaining for a missing peanut
theamk•8mo ago
> The customer logs in to the billing interface ( which remains active for allowing users to update their CC in case of problems), he adds in his CC again AND pays the last invoice again. Then the next day he does a second chargeback.

Sounds like in case of chargeback, you should lock out customer account until they contact support. If this was an honest mistake - then unlock is one email away. If it's not, you are not messing up your chargeback rate.