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How the Alzheimer's Research Scandal Set Back Treatment 16 Years

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/false-alzheimers-study-could-set-research-back-16-years
1•walterbell•1m ago•0 comments

Redot Engine: Godot Fork – April Update

https://www.redotengine.org/blog/april-update
1•SuaveSteve•2m ago•1 comments

The AI Eval Flywheel: Scorers, Datasets, Production Usage and Rapid Iteration

https://pejmanjohn.com/ai-eval-flywheel
1•pejmanjohn•4m ago•0 comments

Making GNOME's GdkPixbuf Image Loading Safer

https://blogs.gnome.org/sophieh/2025/06/13/making-gnomes-gdkpixbuf-image-loading-safer/
2•nindalf•7m ago•0 comments

Messing with Texas: Big Homebuilders and Private Equity Made Cities Unaffordable

https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/messing-with-texas-how-big-homebuilders
1•PaulHoule•7m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Claude Auto-Commit – AI-powered Git commit message generation

https://github.com/0xkaz/claude-auto-commit
1•0xkaz•9m ago•0 comments

I Built a Producthunt Alternative

https://justgotfound.com
1•abusayedopu•9m ago•0 comments

Hi

2•zayr•13m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Make your Dock the cutest place on Mac

https://github.com/wizenheimer/cupcake
1•tinylm•15m ago•0 comments

How to Make Your Developer Documentation Work with LLMs

https://fusionauth.io/blog/llms-for-docs
1•mooreds•17m ago•0 comments

Microwave blasters can down even jam-proof drones

https://www.economist.com/interactive/science-and-technology/2025/06/11/microwave-blasters-can-down-even-jam-proof-drones
3•austinallegro•18m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Unsiloed – VLMs for Document Ingestion

https://www.unsiloed.ai/
1•ady9999•18m ago•0 comments

The Scallenge (2024)

https://herbertlui.net/the-scallenge/
1•mooreds•20m ago•0 comments

Implementing Logic Programming

https://btmc.substack.com/p/implementing-logic-programming
1•sirwhinesalot•22m ago•1 comments

Openvino-Plugins-AI-Audacity

https://github.com/intel/openvino-plugins-ai-audacity
1•petethomas•22m ago•0 comments

(LLM self fine-tuning) Unsupervised Elicitation of Language Models

https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.10139
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Ask HN: Creatives – want a portfolio site that feels like you?

1•pomdevv•27m ago•0 comments

Flohmarkt v0.10.0 Released

https://codeberg.org/flohmarkt/flohmarkt/releases/tag/0.10.0
1•midzer•27m ago•0 comments

Fiber-Optic Drones the New Must-Have in Ukraine War

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-fiber-optic-drones-russia/33344310.html
2•austinallegro•30m ago•1 comments

JavaFlow – highly concurrent, async programming with deterministic execution

https://github.com/panghy/javaflow
1•simonpure•30m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Yupp – Every AI for Everyone

https://yupp.ai/
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A collection of sample agents built with Agent Development (ADK)

https://github.com/google/adk-samples
1•tanelpoder•32m ago•0 comments

Show HN: WaveGen – turn blog articles into text overlay videos, not slops

https://wavegen.ai
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Humpback Whales Are Way Cooler Than You

https://nautil.us/humpback-whales-are-way-cooler-than-you-1216796/
3•dnetesn•35m ago•0 comments

When Monsters Came for Mathematics

https://nautil.us/when-monsters-came-for-mathematics-1217312/
2•dnetesn•36m ago•0 comments

China AI Companies Dodge US Chip Curbs by Flying Suitcases of Hard Drives Abroad

https://www.wsj.com/tech/china-ai-chip-curb-suitcases-7c47dab1
5•walterbell•39m ago•2 comments

Recognizing and Communicating with diverse intelligences [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD5TOsPZIQY
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Introducing Sulka, the Hardened Yocto Distro

https://ejaaskel.dev/introducing-sulka-the-hardened-yocto-distro/
5•FrankSansC•46m ago•1 comments

How we built our multi-agent research system

https://www.anthropic.com/engineering/built-multi-agent-research-system
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Show HN: Start building and monetizing your Bluesky audience

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1•cranberryturkey•47m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Major sugar substitute found to impair brain blood vessel cell function

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2025-06-major-sugar-substitute-impair-brain.html
153•wglb•21h ago

Comments

wglb•21h ago
Article in Physioliogy https://journals.physiology.org/doi/10.1152/japplphysiol.002...
mjd•15h ago
Thanks.

This is the study that the article is talking about. The complete paper is https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/japplphysiol...

It's based on earlier work that suggests that erythritol consumption is associated with increased risk of stroke or myocardial infarction: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02223-9

wglb•5h ago
Thanks!
TimorousBestie•20h ago
In vitro with human cells, at a reasonable concentration, apparently. Looks worrying.
toomuchtodo•20h ago
Erythritol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythritol

elevaet•16h ago
I wonder if the similar molecule Xylitol has the same problem. It seems like so many artificial sweeteners have dangerous health effects, I don't trust any of them. Unless you're diabetic or something, regular sugar seems to be the healthiest choice (in moderation!)
aydyn•16h ago
Regular sugar is very bad for you in a modern diet as its essentially extra calories that are not compensated by satiety.

Why prefer something that you know is definitely bad for you over something that maybe is but more likely benign?

hedora•16h ago
Studies have shown artificial (and non-nutritional organic) sweeteners are much worse than sugar for decades.

For instance, they disrupt your metabolism, so equivalently sweet amounts of sweeteners cause more weight gain than sugar. (Due to increased hunger vs. eating nothing, decreased metabolism and decreased calorie burn.)

The study in the article isn’t surprising at all. Links between nutrisweet and migraine headaches have been well understood for a long time. It’s not surprising other similar chemicals have similar negative side effects.

There’s no valid reason to use artificial sweeteners (other than diabetes, but even then, gaining weight from the sweeteners is a problem if the diabetes is weight related.)

aydyn•15h ago
Thats wrong. You can find any individual study to support nearly any conclusion you want.

The most credible meta analyses (https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240046429) only show positive or null effects compared to equivalent sugar amounts.

Hugsun•15h ago
I was under the impression that this is not the case. Aspartame has been studied a lot and not found to be harmful.
datameta•15h ago
Aspartame is linked to anxiety.
TeMPOraL•14h ago
Direction of causation would be very relevant here.

Sugar is still the cultural default; artificial sweeteners are something you explicitly choose due to health concerns (worried about being or becoming diabetic, or overweight, or worried about sugar being unhealthy in general, or about the mood/motivation angle, etc.).

I imagine becoming overweight itself is linked to anxiety both ways, as eating or snacking is a common reaction to stress, a way to relieve it in the moment.

opan•13h ago
>Sugar is still the cultural default; artificial sweeteners are something you explicitly choose due to health concerns

If only. Check the ingredients (usually near the bottom) of some energy drinks some time. Monster, NOS, AMP, half of the Rockstar flavors, Bang, and so on will add sucralose to the normal versions with sugar or HFCS in them. It's hard to find one without artificial sweeteners. This is especially crazy as Monster already has their sugar-free (Ultra?) line. They're forcing normal people to consume sucralose, and it's awful. Luckily Red Bull seems fine for now (Blueberry flavor is really good). Guru in its original flavor only also has no sucralose, but I think all the other flavors have it. I first noticed this trend one of the times they brought back Mtn Dew Game Fuel and it tasted disgusting. Now I'm scared of any new drink, or that they'll ruin one I like.

Also, I think water is fine, caffeine pills are fine, I know some people are against energy drinks, but I don't think that's a reason to ruin them (preempting replies saying not to drink them at all). I've been drinking black coffee all week but I still have some Blueberry Red Bull in my fridge for when I feel like it.

illiac786•2h ago
Is it the taste of sucralose which is ruining the drink or do you feel sucralose makes an otherwise healthy drink like red bull unhealthy?

(Full disclosure: I consider red bull very high risk of being unhealthy, considering the stuff they put in, the artificial flavours, etc. – sucralose is a mere detail to me)

kelipso•43m ago
Jumping in, but sucralose tastes very clearly weird to me. Aspartame I had too long ago but probably tastes weird too since I avoided it afterwards. Monk fruit tastes a lot better but it can get overwhelmingly sweet to me. I tend to avoid sweeteners though, partially because of the taste and partially because they are new chemicals and potentially unhealthy.
TeMPOraL•9m ago
Sweeteners are definitely an acquired taste. The few times I went on or off of them, it took about two weeks for my body to adjust, after which artificially sweetened beverages started tasting good, and those sweetened with sugar felt off - and then also two weeks to readjust the other way around.

Ultimately, sweeteners won me over, and I've been "on" them for the past 12 years. For me it's a simple matter: I dislike pure water, and have been drinking black tea instead ever since I was a single-digit aged kid - but I also can't stand unsweetened tea. Sweeteners save me from ingesting stupid amounts of sugar through drinking some 10 mugs of tea every day, as I used to long ago.

f_bit•15h ago
Anecdotal but I have experienced body ache from drinking diet soda with aspartame. I drank regular soda when younger but switched over to watch my weight as I aged. A year on during a more sleep deprived week I went heavy on the caffeinated diet soda and ended up with all muscles feeling like I had done some major exercising. Thinking back, I had been experiencing regular aches. I stopped for a week, felt better. Tested again by going heavy for a week and the aches returned. Tried regular soda and no aches. I just stopped soda all together at that point. I check labels now and avoid anything with aspartame in it.
chrisco255•15h ago
Anecdotal but I drink diet sodas all the time and have never felt any such thing.
const_cast•1h ago
> Studies have shown artificial (and non-nutritional organic) sweeteners are much worse than sugar for decades.

What? No they haven't. This is just straight-up misinformation.

Aspartame is completely safe to consume. It's not carcinogenic, it doesn't mess up your metabolism, it doesn't do anything. At worst, it can cause some people stomach upset in large quantities.

We can't just lie and make things up because they sound intuitively true. Zero-calorie sweeteners sound too good to be true, sure. That doesn't mean they actually are, that's not science.

> There’s no valid reason to use artificial sweeteners (other than diabetes, but even then, gaining weight from the sweeteners is a problem if the diabetes is weight related.)

"There's no valid reason to use artificial sweeteners" -> proceeds to list valid reasons.

Yes, people use these for weight control because they're very effective and safe. Also: it's impossible to gain weight from artificial sweeteners like Aspartame. There's no calories in them, what would make you gain weight?

abenga•15h ago
"Too many calories" is a simpler problem to solve: increase physical activity, take less sugar, or take sugar less frequently. The signal to watch out for to tell that you are taking too much (increasing weight) is straightforward as well.

The possible artificial sweetener issues implied by the article ("may be poison") are ultra scary.

aydyn•15h ago
Easier to understand does not mean simpler to solve.

40% of the U.S. is overweight, 11% are diabetic, etc etc. There is no such magnitude of a problem due to erythritol or artificial sweeteners.

If "too many calories" were easy to solve we would not have an epidemic of it.

uncircle•15h ago
Sweeteners don’t solve the obesity epidemic, they make it worse. Bodies are complex systems with feedback, you cannot focus only on the amount of calories. If one is overweight, and keep reinforcing their dietary patterns by eating sweet food, caloric or not, they’re never gonna adapt to healthy eating which is barely sweet if at all. I’m speaking from an holistic point of view; the American idea of healthy food is twisted by commercial interests and only calories seem to count.

Also, you forget that sweeteners still cause an insulin release and some research shows that their effect on metabolism might be even worse than sugar itself because, being zero calories, they do not contribute to the sense of “caloric satiety,” so for the same volume of food your body has released more insulin.

It’s convenient for companies to claim sweeteners are safe and sugar is the devil, but consumers should take such a claim with a grain of salt. There is no silver bullet, and dietary sciences is a field of bad science and enormous commercial incentives to lie. A good rule of thumb is whatever we have consumed for thousands of years is likely not that bad. Sugar in quantities should be avoided, but elsewhere you have claimed that it is bad for you and I have to disagree with such hyperbole, compared to something we’ve eaten for less than 50 years created by food lobbies.

Propelloni•14h ago
No, the GP is correct. The solution is simple. Calculate your daily passive calorie requirement, take in less calories and/or up active calorie requirement. Simple.

Now, implementing this is hard or maybe impossible for many individuals, I'm not denying this. The solution is simple, but for some it is not easy to implement.

rat9988•14h ago
This is word play on the meaning of word simple in "simple solution" that can mean both easy to do or easy to understand. This is orthogonal to the point being made.
Jensson•12h ago
It is simple as in you know if its a problem for you or not. Most people can eat sugar without becoming fat.
kreetx•10h ago
Yup. If more calories were a "simple problem to solve", how come it isn't solved?
kelipso•6h ago
It is a simple problem to solve. Eat less, exercise more. Tons of people have done it successfully. Tons of people do it without even thinking about it.

It’s just that some people have mental addictions or whatever problems that makes them want to overeat or not exercise enough. But the solution itself is simple and straightforward.

kreetx•6h ago
If the "tons of people" in the first paragraph were multiples more than the "some people" in the second paragraph, then I would agree that the solution is simple. But the thing you describe in the second paragraph is what makes actually solving obesity hard. Using artificial sweeteners is one of the ways in countering the latter half of the puzzle.
Propelloni•9h ago
Fair enough. To me, simple and easy are not the same thing. Chess is a simple game that's not easy to play. In the same vein, to me, "take in less calories than you burn" is a simple concept, but not easy to do. It doesn't make the concept wrong, though.
Eduard•7h ago
"primitive solution"
birn559•11h ago
One problem is that for some people, the daily calories used by the body lowers when you reduce the calories intake (mostly by adjusting NEAT). So for some people it's harder to lose weight than for others.
vladvasiliu•14h ago
While this looks simple on the surface, what I've found is that there's a missing component to what you describe: the effect sugar has on the perception of satiety: when I eat sugar, I always have a hunger-like feeling, which incites me to keep on eating. I don't get this with sweeteners.

This happens with sugary drinks, but also with solid food, such as cake.

Sure, once you see your weight go up, you can adjust. But adjusting is difficult, and I think this is a contributing factor to the weight problems people have.

chewonbananas•11h ago
That's because not enough of the hormone leptin (feeling of satiety) gets created when you ingest sugary foods.
vladvasiliu•11h ago
I've noticed this happens even after desert. If I have a steak or similar and end there, it's fine. If I have something sweet, I'll feel hungry in two hours.
sieve•12h ago
> "Too many calories" is a simpler problem to solve: increase physical activity, take less sugar, or take sugar less frequently.

From Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories:

> “To attribute obesity to ‘overeating,’” as the Harvard nutritionist Jean Mayer suggested back in 1968, “is as meaningful as to account for alcoholism by ascribing it to ‘overdrinking.’”

Obesity etc are hormonal issues. It is not simple calorie-in, calorie-out math. I have been on a diet, off-and-on, for 15 years, and I can notice craving for carbs increase after "slipping/cheating" by consuming sugary food. While I generally manage to avoid reaching for snacks, I can only imagine how people can struggle with this, more so when others around them are stuffing themselves with food rich in sugar.

dogman1050•7h ago
For me, it's calories-in calories-out. I've been counting calories for two decades and learned a couple things about my particular case:

- If I consume more than 2,300 kcal per day, I gain measurable weight in weeks.

- If I consume less than 2,100 kcal per day, I lose measurable weight in weeks.

- Physical activity has little effect on my weight change.

- Age has little effect on my weight change.

- When losing weight, I must work out to retain strength. Moving around an extra 10 kg takes strength that is lost when the weight is lost.

In my case, any hormonal effects are secondary to the above. I've changed what I eat over the years and my weight didn't change if I consumed the same kcals. There are likely subtleties I am missing, but eating less works for me. YMMV

lithocarpus•6h ago
What do you eat in those extra 200 calories?

I sometimes binge on cheese and nuts or peanut butter when I'm not at my best, but even when I do this for weeks, and I'm talking an extra 2000 calories in a day which is easy with those things, I haven't gained weight (fat). I don't feel as good and I don't recommend it, but I think it's safer than eating sugar if one is going to binge. I had a couple years 10 years ago where I ate sweet things most days and did gain noticeable weight (fat). So it's not like I'm genetically not going to gain weight either.

As an aside, physical activity might not affect weight change as much but it will affect the fat/muscle ratio.

dogman1050•4h ago
You are very lucky to be able to eat like that without weight gain!

The extra 200 calories would be more of the same, just bigger portions. I record everything by weight when eating at home, and have a good feel for calories per unit weight, but double check often. Cheeses are about 100 cals per oz, breads or snacks with little fat (pretzels) are 80-100 cals per oz, nuts are dangerously calorific at 160-180 cal per oz. Peanut butter is the same. I eat nearly everything, both good and bad for me, but keep track of calories and it's been working for me. I do eat ice cream occasionally, with full awareness of how much. My calorie limit is a target, but I enjoy life. The only thing I've eliminated completely is alcohol.

sieve•4h ago
Sugar, carbs in general, is particularly problematic.

I know of diabetics who cannot give up on sugary treats with full knowledge of the consequences of their behavior, people who have seen others in the family lose eyes, limbs, kidneys and life to the disease. Not a single one of them will consume a block of cheese or butter if one were to set these in front of them. Or a plate of diced carrots or cucumbers. It is always the chocolates and chips and the cookies and the ice cream and the biscuits.

Over the last two decades, I have been 128 kg at my peak. I have also been 93 kg. I have noticed that carbs absolutely wreck my ability to maintain weight. You lose the will to say no to food.

I am in India. Festivals start in September and continue for the next few months. It is an unending caravan of carb-heavy food. I can very easily put on 10 kg in those months. 70K excess calories in 2-3 months is not a lot. This does not happen with high fat food, because you cannot eat those in large quantities. They have high satiety value.

> Physical activity has little effect on my weight change

The human body is insanely adaptive. The natural impulse, I believe, is to conserve energy. For different people, it will respond to continuous over- and under-eating as well as over- and under-exertion in different ways.

People should do what works for them.

IrishTechie•25m ago
> For me, it's calories-in calories-out.

> Physical activity has little effect on my weight change.

Those two statements appear to be contradictory?

woolion•11h ago
I'm quite convinced humans, unless in an environment that restrict their food intake (e.g. being working outside in the fields), are just generally not able to manage the hunger of the sugar-induced insulin crash.

I've switched to the keto diet for other health reasons --I never had any weight issues, and my weight didn't change-- but I never feel as hungry as I used to. But eat a square of chocolate and the hunger comes back.

srean•15h ago
Gee, I don't know if this artificial chemical (that no other species consumes) is toxic.

Let me consume it everyday.

Radium, too was deemed safe to suck on. Thalidomide, perfectly safe. Hormone replacement therapy, perfectly safe...

The safety of these (Thalidomide, HRT) were also backed by studies.

I find safety studies very suspect unless there's years of experience, especially if there is money to be made by someone.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it -- Upton Sinclair

aydyn•15h ago
Non sequitur. Lots of studies examining the toxicity of artificial sweetners. The body of evidence shows null distribution.
lithocarpus•12h ago
"lots of studies" also showed other things like smoking were ok once upon a time.

The few times I've looked in depth at the studies about the safety of a particular thing, I have found that each study has at least one obvious major flaw that makes the study not necessarily support the conclusion. You could have 10 such studies or 100 and say that lots of studies show that X is safe or Y is dangerous, and the conclusion could be wrong.

This especially common when there's a financial incentive for the people doing or controlling the study to get the result they want, which there usually is. Or for studies that don't get the desired result to not be published.

theshackleford•9h ago
> "lots of studies" also showed other things like smoking were ok once upon a time.

Such as?

autoexec•2h ago
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/003335490512000215
autoexec•3h ago
> "lots of studies" also showed other things like smoking were ok once upon a time.

Some of the same scientists who were paid off by the tobacco industry to lie to the public about the safety of cigarettes are now working for the food industry to convince the public that food additives are safe.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/04/17/400391693/ho...

More skepticism than usual seems reasonable.

birn559•15h ago
Sweeteners have been researched quite extensively. If there are problems with regular typical consumption, the effect size is very small.

Small as in "the alternatives are most likely worse" or as in "you are consuming already a dozen other things that are known to be more problematic by an order of magnitude and you should focus on them instead".

ta20240528•15h ago
Hormone replacement therapy is perfectly safe.

The unsafe reputation came from a flawed study of far older, women.

IMHO the inventors should win the Nobel Peace Prize.

jrapdx3•15h ago
While I'm most familiar with evaluating pharmaceuticals, the same principles apply to food additives. The issue arises that certain adverse effects occur infrequently or only after an extended interval from the time of exposure. Safety of drugs, food additives, et.al., are evaluated in relatively small premarketing samples. For uncommon (or delayed) effects to become evident it requires a much larger population to be exposed to the drug or additive.

"Years of experience" means an increasingly larger population has been subject to use of the compound. It may take 10's of millions of exposures for the problems to become clear enough to elicit action.

A surprising number of drugs (and food additives) have been used for decades before their adverse effects were recognized and the offenders removed from the market.

We should regard initial or early claims of safety as preliminary statements. Indeed skepticism is warranted. Ongoing monitoring/reevaluation is necessary. Certainly utmost caution is needed before allowing products to be widely used.

lithocarpus•12h ago
I'm guessing the downvotes are for the tone of your comment and not the substance. What you say is true.

Most safety studies are paid for by entities that will profit if the study shows the thing to be safe. It's important to look at incentives.

srean•12h ago
I think you are right and the Upton Sinclair quote might have cut too close to home.

This is also a very different problem to solve. Especially in the face of regulatory capture.

An alternative model, where the owner/proposer owns complete liability of dangers and damages proved in the future, is also not fully satisfactory.

I think some shared ownership of liability is the best solution but no business will touch it.

Privatisation of profit socialization of liability is where things are at.

gcanyon•10h ago
>> I'm guessing the downvotes are for the tone of your comment and not the substance. What you say is true.

> I think you are right and the Upton Sinclair quote might have cut too close to home.

I think you might be taking the wrong lesson from GP. While they were agreeing with you on the substance, they were pointing out that your way of presenting your point was undercutting your message.

Your response comes off as roughly, "Yeah, the truth hurts," which continues that tonal problem GP was talking about.

srean•3h ago
I feel bad that you got downvoted.
konart•15h ago
>Regular sugar is very bad for you

No it is not. The overwhelming quantites are bad. But this applies to almost any food.

aydyn•15h ago
That is why I conditioned the claim with the qualifier "in a modern diet".

To a starving child in a impoverished nation? Sugar would be great.

Context is important.

dinfinity•8h ago
It is still wrong, though. Physical state and calorie expenditure are also very, very important context.

If your blood sugar is low, then eating/drinking stuff with a high glycemic index can be very good for you. For instance after heavy exercising.

You might think it is obvious, but people like simplistic things, so "sugar is bad for you, mmkay" is what most people believe nowadays rather than having a basic understanding of such fairly simple aspects of nutrition.

illiac786•2h ago
To the overwhelming majority of humans who do not have a super heavy physical activity, it is bad.

It’s just bad in general. Yes, there are corner case, like athletes, where in moderate quantities it is useful.

dazc•15h ago
This like saying alcohol isn't bad for you.
Voloskaya•13h ago
There is no dosage where alcohol is beneficial/useful to your body. Just a dosage where its detrimental effect is somewhat minimal.

There is definitely a healthy/beneficial/useful dosage of sugar. Especially while exercising, sugar is not stored and is used as litteral fuel by the body.

lithocarpus•12h ago
I'd argue that processed or refined or concentrated sugar (not talking about berries or vegetables) is similar to alcohol in being a net negative impact on the body in 99% of cases. Sure if you are otherwise starving then it may have a benefit. But if you trade calories from some real food for calories from sugar, you're worse off.
illiac786•2h ago
What’s the beneficial dosage of refined sugar?
chrisco255•15h ago
It's extremely addictive and very, very difficult for most people to control.
lm28469•12h ago
If your taste buds aren't completely fried by years of abuse you really can't eat any significant amount of sugar without being disgusted. More and more often I find some types of apples too sweet for my taste to the point I barely can finish them.
nwienert•11h ago
GLP-1 drugs reset this incredibly quickly, luckily.
lithocarpus•6h ago
That's good, and I hope that one can get off glp 1 quickly too. For anyone with the discipline I'd highly recommend doing it the natural way but if one really can't then I might consider that option.

There aren't any really long term studies of it to show what other effects it might have, though.

nwienert•1h ago
Easy to get off. I have a feeling they are actually life extension drugs, even for normal weight people. Just reading many studies and some intuition from taking them (and not being much over).
burnt-resistor•10h ago
The fallacy of bothsidesism without quantitative evidence. People will keep ostentatiously promoting "raw" honey and "raw" sugar with RFK gusto.
elevaet•5h ago
If you're asking me personally, it's because I don't have any problems with eating too much sugar so I would never want to introduce an artificial sweetener into my diet when it carries potential strange health risks.

I think people get hung up on finding sugar substitutes when the root is eating sweet things constantly. You don't have to eat and drink sweet all the time. Many modern diets (not just n. Amer) are totally overindexed on sweetness.

Drink water, eat good foods, enjoy a bit of jam on your toast or whatever here and there and get lots of exercise and you'll be fine. You don't need aspartame and xylitol and stevia to be healthy.

rurp•3h ago
I second this, and would add that taste buds are more elastic than many assume. Drinking less sweet drinks can be underwhelming at first but your tastes do adjust fairly quickly and can often get to the point where mildly or unsweetened drinks taste as good or even better than the sugary stuff does, and the stuff that used to taste normal will be too sweet. Drinks like tea and coffee have a lot of flavor that that comes out without so much sugar.

One issue is that if you're buying drinks there are very few intermediate options. I don't mind a little sugar but if I'm traveling and stop at a store the drink options are usually 97% super sweet (artificial or otherwise) and 3% zero sweetness, with nothing in between.

ShakataGaNai•15h ago
Monk Fruit! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siraitia_grosvenorii
Nursie•15h ago
It's not terrible, I've used it in hot drinks (fruit green teas) to give some sweetness.

Doesn't immediately taste horrific like Stevia.... I'm glad the fashion for shoving that in everything has passed.

xtracto•6h ago
I am partial to Allulose [1] and Stevia [2]. A lot of people find their taste bad, but I've grown used to them, so much that I don't "taste" them anymore.

[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...

[2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fsn3.2904

mock-possum•15h ago
Last I checked, xylitol tastes sweet but is actually fairly lethal to plaque-causing bacteria… on the other hand, it’s also a laxative.

Oh also it’s super lethal for dogs.

I only chew gum if it has xylitol in it.

card_zero•5h ago
For all three reasons? The implied lifestyle delights me.
deepnet•12h ago
Xylitol is a sugar from birch tree sap.
abcd_f•14h ago
It was also linked to the elevated risk of blood clots in another study a couple of years ago. Even then it instantly looked like an instant "nope" ... and now this.
umvi•16h ago
Dang, I think my favorite brand of sugar free ice cream uses erythritol (Rebel)
petesergeant•13h ago
Easy to make sugar-free ice-cream with a Ninja Creami
latchkey•16h ago
Almost every single other sugar substitute is filled with erythritol as an additive. Monk Fruit products tend to be really bad offenders. Check the labels carefully.
sgt•15h ago
What about aspartame[sic]?
chrisco255•14h ago
Aspartame is fine in things like soda, but the reason erythritol is mixed with monk fruit (and perhaps aspartame as well?) is it is closer to the sweetness level of sugar in terms of sweetness per gram, and so it's usually easier to use in recipes that are based on sugar quantities.
ShakataGaNai•15h ago
This I found out the unfortunate way. I used some popular monk fruit sweetener... packets were just monk fruit but the bulk packages were monk fruit/erythritol blend and I didn't pay enough attention to the label. Made lemonade with it.

Spent the rest of the day on the toilet.

fellowniusmonk•14h ago
Liquid sweeteners are fine, I switched to liquid monk fruit stevia blend, really like it.
aitchnyu•14h ago
Monk fruit products seem to be false advertising. Why are pure monkfruit sweeteners rare?
xtracto•6h ago
Because of the price of Monk Fruit. Pure monk fruit is expensive.
TomMasz•11h ago
I casually follow the FODMAP diet and avoid sugar alcohols where possible. It's surprising how many sugar substitutes include it, sometimes as the primary ingredient. I've found a pure stevia powder that tastes okay, but it isn't cheap and is only sold in a local health food store.
Bender•9h ago
I can't even consume it. More than about 5g gives me visual auras, migraines. I'm not alone on this.
milleramp•15h ago
Does this mean it also effects athletic performance due to lowering nitric oxide production?
hnlmorg•15h ago
Surely if you’re concerned about athletic performance then you’d be wanting to consume calories rather than intending to buy sugar substitutes?
rafaelmn•15h ago
Depends if you're in a weight restricted sport or not
maksimur•15h ago
I think it depends. An athlete might want to keep the same or less weight for performance or aesthetical reasons.
hnlmorg•14h ago
I meant that the problem many atheists have is consuming enough calories rather than too many. But I guess it depends on the discipline. Triathletes, for example, would burn plenty of more calories training than boxers might.

Back when I was athletic, I definitely had a problem putting weight on rather than taking it off.

mjd•8h ago
This is definitely typo of the week.
petesergeant•13h ago
Protein powder is full of fake sweeteners
adrian_b•7h ago
That is true for many brands.

This is not a reason to avoid it, but to be very careful when shopping and to buy only something that is not adulterated with anything, for instance pure whey protein concentrate or isolate (when produced correctly, those are made by just filtering the whey, without adding anything, though even some of the companies that do not add sweeteners still add lecithin as emulsifier and an anti-caking agent, to be able to market the powder as "instant"; however these additives are far more benign and in far smaller quantities than sweeteners and fragrances).

DidYaWipe•15h ago
These sugar alcohols are a scourge. I quit buying my favorite fake crab (Kroger) because it's full of this garbage.
tlavoie•15h ago
We stopped buying fake crab (made from pollock), after we noticed that the dogs wouldn't eat it. Don't know what was there to cause that, but since there isn't much they won't eat, we wouldn't either. That bar is very, very low.
jemmyw•12h ago
Sugar alcohols are toxic to dogs
tlavoie•5h ago
Right, I know that thanks. The question here is, what would have it been doing, unlabeled, in fake crab product?
_ink_•15h ago
Is any amount dangerous? Or would you need to drink 6 Bottles of something with Erythritol daily to see the effect?
ipsum2•15h ago
It's in the article:

"Human cerebral microvascular endothelial cells were cultured and exposed to an amount of erythritol equivalent to consuming a typical beverage. Experimental conditions included five biological replicates per group."

So it needs to cross the blood-brain barrier. From the research paper: "Moreover, it is important to note that erythritol does cross the blood brain barrier and interact with the cerebrovasculature". Unclear what percentage this is.

Eisenstein•11h ago
Human cerebral microvascular endothelial cells are the blood brain barrier.
HexPhantom•11h ago
Always tricky translating cell culture doses to what actually happens in a living person, but it sounds like there's at least a plausible mechanism here.
maksimur•15h ago
There you go. No artificial sweetener seems to be safe...guess I'll have to get used to making unsweetened protein bars and the occasional drinks and ice cream. Their sugar counterparts are too caloric.
Nursie•15h ago
> No artificial sweetener seems to be safe

Are we at that point yet?

AFAICT aspartame seems to be pretty safe and well-researched, and the IARC listing it as "possibly carcinogenic" itself seems to be controversial. In that category it is listed along side such things as Aloe Vera, Carpentry, Low-frequency magnetic fields, Traditional asian pickled vegetables, Radiofrequency electromagnetic fields and Gingko Biloba extract...

adrian_b•14h ago
In principle, it seems impossible for any artificial sweetener to be completely safe, unless it is consumed only sporadically, not regularly.

Unfortunately, the receptors for sweetness do not exist for the sole purpose of giving pleasure to the brain.

They are also used to signal to various organs to prepare for an influx of carbohydrates. When the signal is frequently present, but then the expected carbohydrates do not come, then this is likely to perturb some control functions of the body, like in the fable about the boy who cried wolf.

arghwhat•14h ago
> it seems impossible for any artificial sweetener to be completely safe, unless it is consumed only sporadically, not regularly.

This also holds for non-artificial sweetener, or in fact any substance entering our body.

Disturbing a process expecting a large influx of carbohydrates vs. disturbing the body with an actual high influx of carbohydrates, disturbing the body by neither consuming nor triggering carbohydrate processes, ...

Drinking bitter fluids - say, coffee - trigger early toxicity warnings that prepare your body for emergency oral bowel evacuation, as "bitter" is the taste of various substances evolution associated with food poisoning. What other mechanisms might that trigger? That's a lot of "crying wolf" for many people.

discreteevent•12h ago
> disturbing the body with an actual high influx of carbohydrates

Eating food in order to have energy to do things is not "disturbing". The parent was talking about telling your body many times a day that its going to get carbohydrates that it doesn't need (and is not going to receive in the case of sweeteners) is the problem.

arghwhat•2h ago
> Eating food in order to have energy to do things is not "disturbing"

It most certainly is. It disrupts several processes, requires significant energy and resource expenditure, spikes various hormones that may or may not be able to develop intolerances. Significant impact to the gut, pancreas, brain (e.g., reward systems).

Not all of the effects are as high profile as full on diabetes, but its most certainly very disruptive.

Even the most healthy things are disruptive and stressful. Exercise is also incredibly disruptive, causing significant continuous injury and a panic-like reaction trying to keep your body from falling apart at the seams den eject your heart through the nearest chest opening.

Living is the act of balancing on a knife's edge with every force in nature trying to knock you over. You live not because of nature, but in spite of it.

adrian_b•7h ago
That drinking something bitter prepares your body in any way, is interesting speculation, which may be true or not. I am not aware of any evidence in favor of this idea. It seems more likely that the only purpose of the bitter taste is to make you spit the food before swallowing it. The sour taste has the same purpose for most animals. Humans and their relatives are among the few who enjoy sour things, and even some bitter things.

On the other hand, for the sweet taste we know that receptors exist not only in the mouth, but also in the intestine, where also the starch from the food would be already digested into glucose or maltose, so it would be sensed as sweet, and where the sweetness receptors do not cause any conscious sensation, so they must have another purpose.

The role of the sweetness receptors from the intestine is not known yet, because short-term studies could not determine it. However, they must have some effects, though those might appear only after longer times of periodic stimulation.

arghwhat•2h ago
> I am not aware of any evidence in favor of this idea. It seems more likely that the only purpose of the bitter taste is to make you spit the food before swallowing it.

That would not explain why the stomach delays opening in response to bitter in the mouth, similar to preparing for protein digestion on glutamate detection.

But of course, we don't exactly have a spec sheet to work with here, so all we can do is theorize on why a particular trait might have evolved...

cpbotha•14h ago
Large prospective cohort study (103 388 participants) showing that artificial sweeteners and specifically aspartame are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease: https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071204

"...findings indicate that these food additives, consumed daily by millions of people and present in thousands of foods and beverages, should not be considered a healthy and safe alternative to sugar..."

Also, artificial sweeteners might not help with obesity: "Long-term aspartame and saccharin intakes are related to greater volumes of visceral, intermuscular, and subcutaneous adipose tissue: the CARDIA study" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-023-01336-y

Nursie•13h ago
It's all good information in the bmj paper, and there's a lot to take in there.

But reading this bit -

"Compared with non-consumers, higher consumers (unadjusted comparisons) tended to be younger, have a higher body mass index, were more likely to smoke, be less physically active, and to follow a weight loss diet; they had lower total energy intake, and lower alcohol, lipid (saturated and polyunsaturated), fibre, carbohydrate, fruit and vegetable intakes, and higher intakes of sodium, red and processed meat, dairy products, and beverages with no added sugar"

I'm not sure how much we can say this is a smoking gun, and how much we can say people who are less healthy and have worse outcomes are also using more sweeteners. In fact the authors note this in weaknesses -

"Additionally, reverse causality could lead to higher artificially sweetened food and beverage consumption among participants who were overweight or obese, and already had poorer cardiovascular health at baseline before CVD diagnosis. However, this factor probably does not entirely explain the observed associations because we excluded CVD events occurring during the first two years of follow-up and we also tested models adjusted for baseline body mass index, weight loss diet, and weight change during follow-up, which did not substantially change the results."

So it seems that even though they have tried to control for that, they can't eliminate it, so I wouldn't personally draw any strong conclusions.

For the record, I don't consume particularly much of any artificial sweetener, though I am fond of the occasional diet coke.

opan•12h ago
Can't you just use a fraction of the normal sugar amount if you're already considering using no sweetener at all?
voidfunc•15h ago
Lol at all the people in this thread stressing out about their artificial sweetener consumption while disregarding all the other dangerous shit they do, eat, and drink.

Forest for the trees.

maksimur•15h ago
Maybe they have omitted those because the focus is on artificial sweeteners? As for myself I try to avoid anything that could be dangerous, not only what I eat or drink.
DHRicoF•13h ago
I partially agree with you. But the selling point of artificial sweeteners was that they were a healthier substitute.

It's better to teach people that there is no free lunch, and they should take care about the calories they are consuming, even if that imply reduce frequency of sweet foods, than sugar coating an equally bad alternative to make it sound like it's healthier.

const_cast•1h ago
1. Artificial sweeteners are healthier substitutes. Aspartame is truly a free lunch. It's not carcinogenic, it's zero-calories for real, it doesn't cause X Y Z. It's perfectly safe.

2. "no free lunch" is a phrase we need to retire forever. Yes, there is free lunch, we do it all the time. That's why infant mortality was 50% and now it's 1 in 1000. That's just called progress, we make things better all the time. That's kind of what humans do.

mkfs•13h ago
It's even funnier when you realize a good chunk of them are still doing low-carb diets like keto or carnivore, gorging on saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium.
lithocarpus•6h ago
There's nothing wrong with eating saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium.

I've known people who have diabetes eating industrial potato chips telling me they stay away from butter and eggs and red meat because of the cholesterol and saturated fat. It's backwards.

These are natural parts of real food that have been eaten in significant quantities by humans for many tens of thousands of years.

I haven't gone as thoroughly into the literature on saturated fat but I don't think I need to. The few studies I've looked at had basic obvious flaws. Saturated fat made up a big part of people's diets in many regions, long before the modern epidemics of diabetes and heart disease. Personally I've been "gorging" on it for ten years now and am in excellent health.

I did look at many of the papers used to say sodium is bad and found that that is not a valid conclusion from those papers. Of course don't overdo salt but the problem shown by most of the studies is probably with processed food which has a lot of sodium, not the sodium itself.

const_cast•1h ago
> There's nothing wrong with eating saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium.

Yes there is: diets high in saturated fats cause heart disease in the long term. There's a lot of meta-analysis on this, it's very much established.

> Saturated fat made up a big part of people's diets in many regions, long before the modern epidemics of diabetes and heart disease.

No, no they don't. This is a common misconception.

High saturated fats come from farmed meat, which is a fairly new phenomenon. Game meat is actually typically very low in saturated fat, and high in unsaturated fat.

In addition, high meat consumption is a new thing. Past 100 years only. Pre-historic humans were hunter-gathers, but almost all their diet was carbohydrates. They ate upwards of 100 grams of fiber a day and little to no meat, because meat is quite hard to get. Even after that meat consumption remained low, up until the past hundred years where wealth and farming allowed high meat consumption.

But, even today, you might be shocked to know that most humans globally do not eat a diet high in meat. It's only the west.

HexPhantom•11h ago
Modern health anxiety in a nutshell
almosthere•14h ago
Switch to Stevia, but it kind of has a weird taste imo
Yizahi•12h ago
It seems to be individual and depends on brand. I'm buying Stevia Inulina, it tastes fine for me and it doesn't contain Maltodextrin as do some other sweeteners. The only problem is that it is less popular and hard to find, compared to shelves filled with Xylitol and Erythritol.
thangalin•14h ago
UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin.

https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM?t=75

mkfs•13h ago
This is about sugar alcohols, not simple sugars, and total sugar consumption in the US has been declining since a peak around the turn of the millennium, reverting back to levels on par with the 1970s, yet overweight/obesity rates just kept right on climbing until the recent advent of GLP-1 drugs.
netdevphoenix•12h ago
If your calorie intake is higher than your calorie usage, it doesn't matter how little sugar you take. People ingest more calories than ever (relative to their calorie usage) and barely engage in physical activities (relative to their calorie intake). Sure, other factors might worsen this but doesn't change the underlying core
PaulRobinson•12h ago
Most nutritionists would today argue that is far too simple a model. Your body does not metabolize all calories in the same way. The role of your microbiome in terms of metabolization was barely understood at all only 50 years ago, and we're only now starting to get a handle on it.

If it were a case of "calories in, calories out", all the experiments down by food technicians to understand what is happening in the brain when you consume certain flavors (they were literally getting people to taste soda in an MRI scanner decades ago), would not be an efficient use of time and the food industry would collapse.

If you eat 2000 kCals of lettuce, your body is going to do very, very different things to eating 2000 kCals of potato fries, including how it stores or consumes energy in that moment. Importantly, what your body does is likely going to be very different to what my body does. 10% of the population can stay slim while over-eating crap, because they are genetically lucky. A %age of the population will struggle to stay at a healthy BMI even if they eat mostly salads and fruits.

This isn't radical new age voodoo: the best science available today tells us the calories in/out model isn't anywhere near nuanced enough to help educate people on eating healthily and managing their weight.

Tim Spector has written some material on this, and I've been reading Camilla Stokholm's book recently. It's all quite interesting, and very different to what I was taught when growing up.

I'd also do some digging on ultra-processed foods - it might stop you thinking overweight people are just doing it to themselves. They're not.

dragandj•12h ago
Everywhere I look around myself I see the same thing: people move very little (compared to our ancestors) and they eat often, and they eat a LOT (compared to our ancestors, of course). Sure, eating processed crap influences this in a negative way, but I think parent poster is on the point: eating in moderation and exercising more is the way...
netdevphoenix•11h ago
You are going on tangents (food effects on brain, microbiome, genetics). I would be very surprised if you could find a significant amount of people for whom "Eat less, move more" would not result in lower body fat over time. The fact that some people won the generic lottery and can afford to eat more and move less does not change the fact that "Eat less, move more" works for the vast majority of the population.
tpm•10h ago
> If you eat 2000 kCals of lettuce, your body is going to do very, very different things to eating 2000 kCals of potato fries, including how it stores or consumes energy in that moment.

I don't really think so. The only meaningful difference regarding the content of macronutrients is right at the start: you would have to eat about 20kg of lettuce to get there, which would overload your digestive system several times over.

If you hypothetically somehow managed to bypass this small issue, the main difference would be low fat content of lettuce compared to the fries. Bud the body can adapt to that.

scoofy•4h ago
This model doesn’t account for the fact that hunger and satiety are chemical processes, not physical processes.

It’s like saying people who want to stay awake when they are tired should just keep their eyes open.

htx80nerd•14h ago
Test tube study.

> Human cerebral cells were cultured and treated with 6 mM of erythritol, equivalent to a typical amount of erythritol [30g] in an artificially sweetened beverage, for 3 hr.

the cells were in the substance for 3hrs? I'm not reading the whole study now, but that sounds...interesting.

maeln•14h ago
The study : https://journals.physiology.org/doi/epdf/10.1152/japplphysio...

From a quick read : It was tested in a cell culture, so not in a human or animal. That does change a lot of things.

For the dosage:

> Thereafter, hCMECs were treated116 with regular media or media containing 6 mM erythritol (Sigma Aldrich, Cat #E7500; St. Louis MO), a117 dose equivalent to a typical amount of erythritol [30g] in a single can of commercially available118 artificially sweetened beverage, for 24 hours (N=5 experimental units)

sfjailbird•12h ago
> It was tested in a cell culture, so not in a human or animal. That does change a lot of things.

The article points out that similar observations have already been made in human subjects:

> Positive associations between circulating erythritol and incidence of heart attack and stroke have been observed in U.S. and European cohorts

Eisenstein•11h ago
One of the cited studies (Khafagy et al., 2024) directly contradicts such claims. The study explicitly said "we did not find supportive evidence from MR that erythritol increases cardiometabolic disease".

The primary human study they reference (Witkowski et al., 2023) has a few issues:

- All subjects had a "high prevalence of CVD and risk factor burden" and represented the sickest patients in the healthcare system

- Erythritol was measured only once at baseline, despite data which shows that levels fluctuate dramatically with consumption

- It did not differentiate between dietary intake and erythritol produced by the body

- Seeing as they were already sick they the subjects may have been consuming more artificial sweeteners than the general population

There are two more human studies referenced but I didn't read them.

ricardobeat•11h ago
It’s tiring to see these quick dismissals of scientific studies at the top of the comment section. They are more often than not based on technicalities or fallacies. Pitting a two minute reading vs months of work by a team of scientists is not a great move.

In this case, the nature of the study is clearly acknowledged, it does not “change a lot of things”:

> We recognize given the in vitro, isolated single cell nature of this study we cannot make definitive translational conclusions or assertions regarding erythritol and clinical risk. However, the markers and mediators of brain microvascular endothelial cell function studied herein have been shown to have strong causative links with the development cerebrovascular dysfunction, neuronal damage and injury, thrombosis and acute ischemic stroke

These findings are a starting point for further understanding, not something to be immediately ranked as true/false.

kreetx•10h ago
I think what commenters are looking for is a reason where this study is relevant for them (us) as humans, and they assess whether it is definitive or not. As HN is more of a generic curiosity and engineering related site then these starting point for further understanding are unlikely to get more nuanced discussion than that.

Thus, rather than submitting articles like the current, rather wait until anything more is available. We are tired of clickbait as well.

Eduard•7h ago
> Thus, rather than submitting articles like the current, rather wait until anything more is available.

How long more to wait?

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

kreetx•6h ago
Are any of them decisive?
lithocarpus•5h ago
We shouldn't need to wait for a _decisive_ study showing that a novel compound is dangerous to consider avoiding the novel compound.

There's rarely profit in demonstrating that novel compounds are dangerous so it's extremely unlikely for a given dangerous novel compound that there will be any decisive studies showing the danger.

IMHO the novel compound should have to be decisively shown to be safe before being sold in food, but since they are not, I recommend everyone avoid novel compounds as much as it's practicable.

kreetx•3h ago
I initially reacted to the root comment with why these kinds of articles often receive dismissive comments. HN is mostly not a medical forum so a typical reader reader isn't going to want nor be able to discuss the technicalities - they just want to know whether to avoid a substance or not. As is often the case, the results are inconclusive, hence the dismissals. (And these dismissals as top comments are also useful for the typical reader as they pretty much want a yes/no verdict and move on.)

But to your points, if there aren't any studies which can show that a compound is dangerous in any meaningful way, why would you want to avoid it? (Given there is a need or purpose, e.g, a low-calories sweetener.)

Also, decisively showing something to be safe is impossible in a similar way that software tests can only show that you haven't found any bugs yet, it doesn't mean there are none. (Off-topic: That's a quote from Edsger Dijkstra, which the following can be added: he is right, but for unit tests - using types, property testing or by running through the entire argument space for a pure function you actually can show that there are no bugs.)

lithocarpus•2h ago
"why would you want to avoid it?"

Here's an example. Company A invents compound B and pays company C to do safety studies that monitor the subjects for a few weeks or months. The study shows no significant danger. They start selling compound B in food or as medicine. Then 10 years later after millions of people have ingested varying amounts of compound B, it's found to cause some harm that wasn't found in the initial study. Company A pays a fine of less than the profit they made selling compound B, and compound B is pulled from the market.

There are many stories like that. Should I have avoided compound B on the precautionary principle? Or, because the only science done so far in those first 10 years showed it was safe, should I have considered it safe?

In the case of food additives it's even worse. Company A makes compound B, it's in food, no studies are done, millions of people eat it, are harmed, and no one knows for years or decades.

Personally I think introducing novel compounds to the body is just a bad idea period and I avoid them as much as is practicable. Too many have been found to be dangerous only decades later, and we have a population with rapidly rising rates of chronic disease and cancer etc that could be related to toxic stuff. Why risk it. And especially why trust science that is paid for by the companies that will profit if the science shows their thing to be safe?!

---

There _could_ be ways to show safety of something to a point, like do a 20 (or 50) year study with large cohorts where one population uses compound B and the other doesn't and monitor overall outcomes. But that's far too expensive and time consuming and not required so basically no one does it. Companies want to profit from their novel compounds fast.

metalman•5h ago
"tired of clickbait", also tired of declines in the trustworthyness of manufacturers of food/health and regulators thereoff, so personaly I choose the no failure mode solution, ie:I eat mostly whole food items and cook meals at home, and just avoid all of it.....which is the simplest response to the whole dilema for anyone concerned with possible health consequences of the latest "finding" so I simpathise with both sides in the debate, but vote with my kitchen
maeln•8h ago
> Pitting a two minute reading vs months of work by a team of scientists is not a great move.

> In this case, the nature of the study is clearly acknowledged, it does not “change a lot of things”:

> These findings are a starting point for further understanding, not something to be immediately ranked as true/false.

Yes I know this and do not dismiss their research at all. I have been in the same boat, having to write at the end of a paper "We have proven a certain link between Y and X in this very limited experiment A, a wider, deeper research would be needed to prove if any such link exists in much larger condition B". This is normal, and how most scientific advencement is made.

But look, I don't think the average HN user comes to this article and comment section thinking what happened when you put erythritol on a cell culture outside of a living organism. They care about what is the consequences of consuming erythritol on them. So a small clarification comment stating the 2 importants conditions of the experiment (cell culture + dosage) is usually useful if you don't have the time to read the whole study and if you came here just to know if you should stop consuming your favorite sweetened drink right now.

vorpalhex•8h ago
This is science, not religion. Nothing is owed to any researcher beyond the truth of the matter as supported by the best available evidence to us. Your pastor can request you go easy on him, your research team may not. (Please don't use this as an excuse to be rude.)

This contradicts several reasonably large high quality studies using a low grade substitute for human testing. The burden of proof is on the researchers making a surprising claim in contrast to existing evidence.

xtracto•6h ago
Right, likewise the way science works is by publishing studies. Here we have a published peer reviewed study, "versus" a one paragraph anonymous dude trying to discredit the study.

Wake me up when this dude gets a paper accepted in a reputable peer reviewed journal. Then I will read what he has to say and add it to my list of "worthwhile" sources to form my conclusion on Erythritol.

Other than that, online forum comments are just mental candy floss to read while taking my morning caffeine fix.

vorpalhex•6h ago
Science isn't prestige-ism. The parish makes the priest but the same isn't true for the study.

Erythritol has had a lot of top class human studies on it. This is an extreme weak study with a shocking conclusion.

IAmBroom•3h ago
You say "a one paragraph anonymous dude trying to discredit the study"; I say "pointing out that this study isn't definitive proof that diet sodas are bad for you without a lot more study."

Potato, potahtoe.

One is intentionally misspelled.

const_cast•1h ago
Also most diet sodas are not even sweetened with sugar alcohols, that's more of a stick gum thing.
const_cast•1h ago
Typically single one-off studies should be dismissed and shouldn't be cause for concern. Anybody can study anything and it's very, very easy to do wrong.

For most everyday lay people, you should be looking at meta-analysis. We just don't have the context to hone-in on one study and examine how correct it is or what it actually means for our everyday lives.

IrishTechie•29m ago
I tend to read these comments as a quick dismissal of the title moreso than the research. The title implies that a fairly conclusive finding has been made.
linux_devil•14h ago
I've been consuming protein bars that has Maltitol, in the ingredients its mentioned as : INS 965(i) . I am not sure how this can impact in the long run , wish there was an easier way to find out
sfjailbird•12h ago
Maltitol is a bit different, because it is actually quite caloric. It just digests slower.
v5v3•11h ago
Why are you consuming protein bars so much?

They should really be an occasional treat.

theshackleford•9h ago
They didn’t give you any indication of their rate of consumption. Why are you making assumptions?
DontchaKnowit•2h ago
Idk whats the point of eating a protein bar as an occassional treat? They taste like shit but have high protein. If youre gonna have an occasional treat, have an actual treat. A cookie or snickers or something
drakonka•14h ago
I wonder if it would be possible to compare the introduction and adoption of erythritol to stroke rate in the population.
James_K•13h ago
Zero-calorie sugar is on of those things that's just too good to be true. It's either gotta taste awful or give you cancer.
lithocarpus•11h ago
While theoretically it's possible there's some compound that tastes sweet with no other ill effects, I will remain skeptical and not risk my health on novel compounds or novel concentrations of compounds just because a lot of studies failed to show a harm.

In the case of sweet, I have found that simply minimizing eating sweet things has caused everything else to taste better/sweeter.

HexPhantom•11h ago
It is pretty wild how many "healthy" or "sugar-free" products are loaded with erythritol, and how little long-term data we have on what these sweeteners really do. It feels like we’re repeating the same playbook as with artificial sweeteners in the past: new molecule, quick adoption, unintended side effects turn up years later.
netdevphoenix•10h ago
Sounds like stevia is the safer choice
rayiner•8h ago
Why are companies allowed to put this stuff in food before testing to prove safety? Our system is backwards.
macartain•26m ago
Another allulose fan here. I use it as part of a half-baked, sort-of-keto approach to help me avoid carbs and sugar. Unlike Stevia, I find it has pretty much no distinctive aftertaste - it seems too good to be true. I'm in the UK and buy it mail-order from the US as it is still awaiting regulatory approval in the EU/UK afaik... Does anyone have more background on this process or why it is delayed? Anything I can find via search seems heavily polluted by quack health BS...