I stopped halfway through this paragraph and just googled Peter Putnam.
If I want an article to take hours to get to the point I'll go read a recipe blog.
> If I want an article to take hours to get to the point I'll go read a recipe blog.
I don't appreciate all the extra text in recipe blogs either.
Y'all know humans are kinda "made of" stories, right? Stories are the unit layer that we add on top of biological structure. It's not "data"
Imho it is essentially self-loathing of the human condition to valorise raw data and detest linear narrative as much as this crowd seems to do
EDIT: Narrative is the wings, without which data cannot travel through enough of the bell curve of minds. Being anti-story is being anti-democratic is toward authoritarianism. </ hot-take>
Narrative is suasion, not substance.
The storytellers know of no other way to tell the audience what is important, so the medium is the message.
EDIT: and…the trope anticlimactic downvotes seal the drama
But in my defence, I'm in a "punching up" mode here, in the minority sense. I'd probably argue for valorising data more in an arts space.
But something about the current tech world-builders not having respect for narrative makes me frustrated and afraid. How can we ever build things that account for parts of minds and life that we don't respect. (I sense a lack of respect for why and how narrative has been the vehicle of so much human progress and growth)
The short story in your comment, OTOH, is very much better. I can see the scene, my mind has filled in some details, and it took only a couple seconds to read.
We've asked you many times to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we are going to ban you. This is getting absurd:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43875721 (May 2025)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35535148 (April 2023)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30275888 (Feb 2022)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29212633 (Nov 2021)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26418766 (March 2021)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25563542 (Dec 2020)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22050749 (Jan 2020)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20356769 (July 2019)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20350618 (July 2019)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054704 (May 2019)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18797087 (Dec 2018)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18114166 (Oct 2018)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18034335 (Sept 2018)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17517586 (July 2018)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577510 (June 2017)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13970380 (March 2017)
Yes. But your next statement is nonsense.
> They’re the outliers in society who make the rest of our lives easier.
Nothing about Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg made our lives easier. All they've done is made the social contract worse, making our lives harder, not easier. They've given lucrative jobs to a few, but all their market offerings gave the world is distraction and misery, in the case of Facebook, and flashy status symbols to chase, in the case of Tesla. They crowded out the market for competitors, so people can't have truly useful solutions to the problems Zuck and Musk claimed to solve.
Ask yourself why Chinese electric cars would be banned from the US market and you're getting there. Musk bought a social network with the explicit aim of making it worse, and more than succeeded.
Putnam himself would feel perfectly comfortable here.
Your post is a sort of sad admission that your attitude will prevent you from seeing the beauty in everyone.
You do you though. I am sure there is a reason you are this way ;)
It's messy. Anyone who claims one way (myself included) is probably Very Wrong On The Internet
* unless I make a conscious effort to, like when I'm asked to review someone's work
Didn’t seem to captivate OP.
It's much, much (did I say much?) too easy to turn a handful of unpleasant datapoints into an entire theory-of-the-community—almost always one that presents it as somehow depraved or wretched. It's understandable, but it makes for tedious conversation. That's why that guideline is in there.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just keep reading a bit longer?
Personally unless I'm reading fiction I don't care for backstory and setting.
I do wonder about Putnam's research though. Has it been looked into by experts in the field more recently? The article doesn't really give an answer to this.
Regarding the point about current research, I found in the article:
"Gary Aston-Jones, head of the Brain Health Institute at Rutgers University, told me he was inspired by Putnam to go into neuroscience after Clarke gave him one of Putnam’s papers.
“Putnam’s nervous system model presaged by decades stuff that’s very cutting edge in neuroscience,” Aston-Jones said, and yet, “in the field of neuroscience, I don’t know anybody that’s ever heard of him.”"
That’s when it hit him: The goal is to repeat. Repetition isn’t a goal that has to be programmed in from the outside; it’s baked into the very nature of things—to exist from one moment to the next is to repeat your existence. “This goal function,” Putnam wrote, “appears pre-encoded in the nature of being itself.”
So, here’s the game. The system starts out in a random mix of “on” and “off” states. Its goal is to repeat that state—to stay the same. But in each turn, a perturbation from the environment moves through the system, flipping states, and the system has to emit the right sequence of moves (by forming the right self-reinforcing loops) to alter the environment in such a way that it will perturb the system back to its original state."
I'm a big fan of this line of thinking. I've been arguing for years that RL should be based in homeostasis and this seems right along those lines. I wish I could have talked with him!
And according to my friendly neighbourhood LLM, they're not immediately related.
---
* if it's simplification in the article is correct and I understand that simplification correctly
But this story is also a great reminder on the importance of readability. I can't name Putnam a genius if his works were so incomprehensible, that even best of the best had trouble deciphering them. Just like you wouldn't call programmer a genius if he wrote his best work in brainfuck.
I guess he never intended his works to be read. So I won't.
What seems clear is that he was in the right moment and with the right people to produce a great theory of the mind, he was thinking about defining the mind as a creator of heuristic for generating inductive rules, that is a very interesting idea, also that seems related to cellular automata and homeostasis, fixed point theory, error recovery and many other ideas that we, with our ability to look back in time, can see are located in their neighborhood. Recently we are using LLMs to produce heuristic or rules to generate python programs to explore proofs or new models, so the gems is still alive.
The field he was interested in it is full of little diamonds waiting for someone to find them, but perhaps he just put his foot in the door without entering (or creating) the field he was trying to envision. It could be that his paper could reveal some intuition that could guide us in a new search for meaning but from this post there is no any hint about that beyond such a desire.
morninglight•7mo ago
Not even close.
olddustytrail•7mo ago
You can improve your comment with just a little more effort.
dang•7mo ago
You're right that putting down one figure is not a good way to introduce another. It would be better to submit the most interesting online article about Vivian Maier, so we could have a thread about her in her own right.
Edit: turns out we've had quite a few! though not very large ones:
What Vivian Maier saw in color (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43239046 - March 2025 (11 comments)
Vivian Maier, One of the Best Street Photographers of the 20th Century - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40930530 - July 2024 (1 comment)
What Vivian Maier Saw in Color (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19498483 - March 2019 (17 comments)
Vivian Maier - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19358138 - March 2019 (5 comments)
Camera Obscura: A biography of street photographer Vivian Maier - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15214955 - Sept 2017 (5 comments)
Digging Deeper into Vivian Maier's Past - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10886162 - Jan 2016 (1 comment)
Man Buys 10k Undeveloped Negatives, Discovers Important Street Photographers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9750598 - June 2015 (1 comment)
Misplaced: Ethics and the Photographs of Vivian Maier - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9084386 - Feb 2015 (1 comment)
Vivian Maier's undeveloped film on hold amid legal fight - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8906719 - Jan 2015 (8 comments)
Vivian Maier: Amazing unknown street photographer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2256750 - Feb 2011 (4 comments)
Vivian Maier: A life's work seen for first time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2127744 - Jan 2011 (51 comments)
tiagod•7mo ago
4b11b4•7mo ago