frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

Open in hackernews

Black hole merger challenges our understanding of black hole formation

https://gizmodo.com/astronomers-detect-a-black-hole-merger-thats-so-massive-it-shouldnt-exist-2000628197
47•Bluestein•8h ago

Comments

thaumasiotes•8h ago
Way to headline.

The numbers in the article suggest a violation of conservation of mass:

> Today, the LIGO Collaboration announced the detection of the most colossal black hole merger known to date, the final product of which appears to be a gigantic black hole more than 225 times the mass of the Sun.

> GW231123, first observed on November 23, 2023, seems to be an unprecedented beast of a black hole merger. Two enormous black holes—137 and 103 times the mass of the Sun—managed to keep it together despite their immense combined mass

Is the explanation here "225 is a nice round number, and 240 is technically 'more than' that", or "a lot of mass evaporates into other forms of energy when black holes merge", or "during a merge, it becomes possible for matter to escape an event horizon", or what?

jraines•8h ago
the extra mass is converted into energy in the form of gravitational waves (maybe other forms too idk but this is part of it)
maxbond•7h ago
Entire solar masses being lost to gravitational waves, like the voltage drop across a resistor, is a humbling prospect.
bot403•6h ago
I'll underscore your awe by reminding you those solar masses disappeared in only 1 tenth of a second - the length of the gravitational wave signal.
ikari_pl•3h ago
but that's the time that passed here... it sounds like a mind-warpingly different perspective might have been seen there
Bluestein•3h ago
Dang
nine_k•5h ago
I suppose nothing but gravitational waves can escape the even horizon — or, rather, gravitational waves are born near / around it, because the black holes bend the space enormously.

OTOH whatever else may be outside the black holes near the merger and count towards their mass for astronomical purposes, such as accretion discs, should be much lighter weight than what's inside the event horizon.

ars•5h ago
Gravitational waves also can not escape. Those waves carry energy, and it's actually energy that can't escape.

The waves are actually made just to the outside of the event horizon.

berkes•2h ago
I always understood that the waves are "made" everywhere, but that only the waves outside the even horizon will escape.

Was my understanding wrong all along?

david38•8h ago
Rather confused. 225 solar masses isn’t gigantic by any means
NooneAtAll3•7h ago
it's above what's considered possible to create by usual star collapse means

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_stars lists only 2 stars more massive than that

thaumasiotes•7h ago
So if you have two black holes within each other's event horizons, but they're too big to collide, what's supposed to happen instead?
pfdietz•6h ago
The situation you describe is impossible. "If you have a very large positive number that is less than zero, what happens?"
thaumasiotes•6h ago
What's the contradiction in the black hole setup?
naasking•4h ago
I'm not even sure what it would mean for two black holes to be too big to collide, or where that became some kind of constraint.
dskloet•2h ago
I thought it was just thought that it would take too long for them to spiral into each other for it to have happened enough times in our universe
pfdietz•4m ago
If one is within the other's event horizon, they have already collided (and are now surrounded by a common event horizon).
chasil•5h ago
I have read elsewhere that all black holes are imploding, and there will be a "bounce" followed by matter emerging from the event horizons.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a65038572/...

raverbashing•2h ago
Nothing is too big to collide, the issue here are the initial masses which are bigger than expected from core-collapse stars
idiotsecant•6h ago
I don't know if there's ever been a more perfect setup for a your mother joke, but sometimes art is the brush strokes you don't make.
Bluestein•3h ago
I'll counter Debussy ("the space between the notes ..." and all that :)

... and give it a go: "Yo mama is so big she can't even collide with a black hole" (or something ...)

gnabgib•8h ago
Title needs an edit (maybe the clickbait algo): Astronomers Detect a Black Hole Merger That’s So Massive It Shouldn’t Exist - although, it's not a great title.
imoverclocked•7h ago
“Black hole merger detected that defies theoretical boundaries.”
abrookewood•3h ago
Still not clear to me how this "contradicts known models for stellar evolution".
tomhow•58m ago
Thanks – I changed it (earlier today) to:

Black hole merger challenges our understanding of black hole formation

sherdil2022•8h ago
Our understanding of this universe constantly changes. We all know those - Earth is flat or it is center of universe, on and on.

The black hole is happening. So it exists. So either the observations are wrong or the undeying assumptions are wrong or math / physics we are using to make sense of the event is wrong.

Click-bait articles serve no purpose in advancing science.

gmuslera•6h ago
Greg Egan's Diáspora starts with the merger of two neutron stars, and that causes a lot of trouble in this side of the galaxy, don't want to imagine what would it be with 2 massive blackholes for the nearby galaxies.
ars•5h ago
It wouldn't do anything special actually. A black hole from a distance does nothing a sun can't do.

Black holes only become destructive/powerful when you are very close to them.

To elaborate: A black hole is mass, a sun is mass. From a distance there's no difference. The only difference is up close - you can get a lot closer to a black hole dramatically increasing the gravitational force.

But from a distance? Nothing special.

adrianN•4h ago
Except black holes can be a lot more massive than the biggest stars.
atoav•4h ago
Which is true, but also just means you need more distance. And if there is anything in space it is distance.
ikari_pl•3h ago
then there are the jets the black holes may form, and I wouldn't like to pass through one
abrookewood•3h ago
Thanks for that. I guess I had always assumed that over a long enough time frame, black holes would eventually swallow everything.
misja111•2h ago
What about the huge gravitational waves?
ErigmolCt•2h ago
We often imagine them as space vacuums sucking everything in, but they're really just compact mass: spooky only if you get way too close
djmips•2h ago
Black holes can have a relativistic jet. M87 has one that extends ~5000 light years.

These jets can kill from a long distance.

Stevemiller07•4h ago
It’s impressive how LIGO and Virgo keep pushing the limits of what we thought was possible. Each new event seems to open more questions than it answers.
misja111•2h ago
I don't get it. There are black holes that have millions of sun masses. The current theory is that these were formed by many consecutive mergers. What then makes this 225 sun mass merger so large that it shouldn't exist?
berkes•2h ago
Just guessing, but maybe the common situation is that one ever growing black hole absorbes small ones? But that two of these large ones merging "should not happen"?
daedrdev•2h ago
There are no medium sized bkack holes. As far as we look back in time with james webb,the largest are already there.
ErigmolCt•2h ago
225 solar masses… that's just wild. We keep building these models that tell us mergers like this shouldn't happen, and the universe keeps dunking on them
debugnik•1h ago
The article fails to explain why this event challenges our understanding of black holes. Did we expect such big masses to spiral for much longer or something? Why was this collision supposed to stay unstable?
MattPalmer1086•1h ago
There just isn't a way to make black holes that big from the collapse of stars when they go supernova.

So maybe both of these black holes formed from earlier mergers of smaller black holes. Or maybe there are other ways to make larger black holes we don't know about. They are in a range of mass we don't really expect to see theoretically.

Roark66•1h ago
Can someone explain how is it possible for black holes to even collide? Wasn't the usual expanation that time goes faster (for you, slower for outside observer) as you approach the black hole singularity and that it stops exactly as you "get there"? If this is true the black holes never actually collide. They just endlessly spin closer and closer. For the outside observer it taking infinite time before they actually "touch"?

Or do we just call it a collision if they simply get as close to each other as to be within the event horizon of the other?

If the former and we see these true collisions, how is it not a proof the age of the universe is infinite ? If we see events that are supposed to take infinitely long to occur?

ReptileMan•1h ago
All you really need to know for the moment is that the universe is a lot more complicated than you might think, even if you start from a position of thinking it’s pretty damn complicated in the first place.

Can your brain run out of memory?

https://www.livescience.com/health/neuroscience/can-your-brain-run-out-of-memory
2•Bluestein•4m ago•0 comments

Metadata Shows the FBI's 'Raw' Jeffrey Epstein Prison Video Was Likely Modified

https://www.wired.com/story/metadata-shows-the-dojs-raw-jeffrey-epstein-prison-video-was-likely-modified/
2•erremerre•5m ago•1 comments

Changing the Business of Breakthroughs

https://issues.org/network-innovation-wellcome-leap-dugan-gabriel/
1•joules77•5m ago•0 comments

A software to better discuss opinions on the internet?

https://sonny.alvesdi.as/how-to-run-an-se-spectrum-online
1•sonny_alvesdias•9m ago•1 comments

Bitcoin passes $120k milestone as US Congress readies for 'crypto week'

https://www.ft.com/content/1d4c5942-7190-45e1-9167-a5eacfd93982
2•sandbach•13m ago•1 comments

Yajuzhen Cloud Phone and Twitter (X) Marketing

1•yt1314•13m ago•0 comments

Chinese biotech shares surge as Big Pharma looks to license cancer treatments

https://www.ft.com/content/1beb84a6-71c1-494f-8a6c-b10a5da8b01b
1•sandbach•14m ago•1 comments

Annual climate stocktake shows weather records and extremes now the norm in UK

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news-and-media/media-centre/weather-and-climate-news/2025/annual-climate-stocktake-shows-weather-records-and-extremes-now-the-norm-in-uk-climate
4•lukecarr•15m ago•0 comments

The DeepMind CEO's quest for contro l

https://www.businessinsider.com/deepmind-ceo-demis-hassabis-google-ai-future-2025-7
1•amirkabbara•15m ago•0 comments

Gemini UI: Simple interface to play Gemini's understanding

https://getedison.ai/gemini-video-ai
1•sparkalpha•24m ago•0 comments

From Prompt to Plant Shutdown: Agent Context Contamination in MCP

https://veganmosfet.github.io/2025/07/14/prompt_injection_OT.html
2•veganmosfet•24m ago•1 comments

Pakistan Dispatch: When It's This Hot, 'We Are Enduring, Not Living'

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/12/world/asia/pakistan-heat.html
2•bookofjoe•27m ago•1 comments

Ilex Vomitoria: trendy new caffeine drink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilex_vomitoria
1•KnuthIsGod•28m ago•0 comments

The Oddities of Collective Names

https://www.ornitheology.com/post/murder-of-crows-collective-bird-names
1•kesor•29m ago•0 comments

An Interview with William Gibson

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20134176
1•Bluestein•29m ago•0 comments

Andrew Kassoy, 55, Dies; Saw Capitalism as a Force for Social Good

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/12/business/andrew-kassoy-dead.html
2•alexcos•30m ago•2 comments

What can slime mould teach us about biological memory? Essays

https://aeon.co/essays/what-can-slime-mould-teach-us-about-biological-memory
1•rbanffy•33m ago•0 comments

If you want job security, don't give the AI feedback – gibbons

https://gibbons.top/2025/07/13/if-you-want-job-security-dont-give-the-ai-feedback/
3•toplulz•34m ago•0 comments

Bash patch – Add shopt for implicit and& in place of; for functions end of lines

https://savannah.gnu.org/patch/?10534
2•todsacerdoti•36m ago•0 comments

Meta's Days of Giving Away AI for Free Are Numbered

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-07-14/mark-zuckerberg-and-meta-are-unlikely-to-keep-giving-away-ai-for-free
3•ivanbalepin•37m ago•3 comments

AI Misalignment Warning

https://twitter.com/TenZorroAI/status/1944674032894308835
2•paulo20223•41m ago•0 comments

Telefónica DE shifts VMware support to Spinnaker due to cost

https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/11/telefnica_germany_shifts_vmware_support/
7•rbanffy•43m ago•2 comments

Rain of Fire Falling: The crash of American Airlines flight 191

https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/rain-of-fire-falling-the-crash-of-american-airlines-flight-191-e17ffc5369e5
1•fanf2•44m ago•0 comments

Modern webapp to write, run and learn M68K, MIPS, RISC-V, x86 assembly code

https://github.com/Specy/asm-editor
1•hggh•46m ago•0 comments

Show HN: We are building AI Teacher for 260M non native English speaking student

https://app.vidyaarthi.ai/auth
1•boulevard•47m ago•1 comments

Tell HN: Lobste.rs blocking the Brave browser

4•prmph•50m ago•2 comments

The zero-day that could've compromised every Cursor and Windsurf user

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/the-zero-day-that-couldve-compromised-every-cursor-and-windsurf-user/
2•speeder•51m ago•0 comments

Quiet Towns, Loud Secrets–Brazil Became Ground Zero for Russian Espionage

https://newsinterpretation.com/%F0%9F%93%9C-quiet-towns-loud-secrets-brazil-became-ground-zero-for-russian-espionage/
1•nabla9•52m ago•0 comments

Persona Features Control Emergent Misalignment

https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.19823
6•Bluestein•54m ago•0 comments

International students have a rough time: "I do not feel supported"

https://www.study-from-here.com/2025/07/international-students-have-rough-time.html
4•BhattMayurJ•54m ago•0 comments