>can-i-open-16-bit-application-in-windows-8?forum=windows-all&referrer=answers
I had good luck using the 32-bit version of W8 & W10. Had to manually enable NTVDM manually beforehand.
For 64-bit Widows IIRC it would open in DOSbox, but it was actually a DOS aplication.
Now there's this:
windows 8 has reach end of life and service, they don't have all obligation to keep support channel for this operating system
I've recently found information about Windows Vista that enabled more reliable printing in the very latest Windows 11 there is.
It always seems like such sad behavior when people make an effort to remove worthwhile material when there is so much useless waste that is not even addressed.
What a waste of time to have uservoice pages, induce people to post/vote on them, and then just ignore them. I guess it's for the best that they nuked them. They were replaced with pages that said "tweet us". Maybe they have something more robust now, especially since twitter is politically charged/divisive.
It's like standing up complex automated phone menus, you're going to frustrate a certain number of callers into giving up, and reduce the overall number of customers you have to interact with.
We need a scale reform for modern businesses - platforms and companies like Microsoft are logistically incapable of providing good service to their customers, or moderating hundreds of millions or even billions of users, effectively separating these companies from all the harm they cause.
If you can't responsibly operate a business past a certain scale, you shouldn't be allowed to continue growth. I don't know what that looks like, legally speaking, but it's necessary, for what should be reasons obvious to everyone.
> If you can't responsibly operate a business past a certain scale, you shouldn't be allowed to continue growth. I don't know what that looks like, legally speaking
A legal solution is not the correct solution to that problem. The classic answer to this question in Western societies is that the market will produce a better alternative.For what it's worth, I'm typing this on my Debian desktop. In my opinion, a far better solution.
Regulation is the proper tool to force corporations to behave in a way that isn’t as harmful to society. This is something that should be regulated.
> For what it's worth, I'm typing this on my Debian desktop. In my opinion, a far better solution.
It’s almost comical how you speak about better alternatives in the context of capitalist markets, where better means reaching a higher market saturation, and then offer a niche solution that has a number of users so tiny that it’s less than a rounding error in any statistic.
The capitalists already chose their winners, they just never let down a rope to the consumer market.
In the last 30 years, we moved overwhelmingly from local workloads to internet workloads
We moved overwhelmingly away from desktop and to mobile
Android is the dominant mobile OS, and it's hand-in-hand with Linux at the kernel level
The internet, meanwhile, is powered overwhelmingly by Linux
So I tend to agree that just because normal folks think of "computing" as the Windows or Mac machine sitting in front of them, the world is now predominantly powered by Linux.
So this is a coded statement that I fear most people won't get, but it's pretty profound.
If I'm getting bigyabai's point, they are saying that people that are professionals at choosing operating systems have overwhelmingly chosen Linux, and it's really in the consumer markets, where folks don't have any special knowledge or judgment, that Windows and MacOS thrive. That's a good insight, because it's completely true. Both Windows and MacOS cater to audiences that, for the most part, don't care or want to care about how technology works, and this makes them vulnerable. Apple and Microsoft capitalize on this.
Hence my point: The classical concept of "displacement" doesn't apply to corporations at that scale anymore.
The world is a different place now, and old rules don't apply anymore.
> better means reaching a higher market saturation
That most certainly is not my definition of better. My definition of better is addressing my needs as a user.So whether Debian is addressing your needs better than Windows bears little relevance for the topic at hand.
In any case, I think that the term "better" applies for each consumer, therefore the better solution for any specific consumer does not necessarily have to displace the incumbent.
Like San Francisco, it's nearly impossible to build anything there.
25 years ago it made sense to let things play out. Now we're looking at ownership by subscription, and people unable to actually own their own devices, with constant, ubiquitous, global surveillance for all but the most wealthy, and even them most of the time. We see a proliferation of some of the worst possible things online, and companies that are unable and unwilling to effectively moderate their billions of users with resorting to heavy handed authoritarian tactics. Tactics which, when recognized by those in power, are quickly taken over and utilized for purposes far beyond anything so prosaic as "protecting children" or "combating terrorism."
Apple and Microsoft and Google and the rest have shown us that the tech market is more or less just like the old steel and oil markets - robber barons rush in, coordinate, distill the market to a handful of effective players, capture regulation and lobby legislation to maximize their own profit, and there is no concomitant return of value to the users or the market in general.
If you're too big to run the business responsibly, you should be legally prohibited from expanding further. This is about as pro-market as you can get, it requires actual unmet needs in any market to be met, and holds those operating in the market to account for their behavior.
The US refused serious regulation out of fear of stifling a fully-financialized economy. Now that America has no manufacturing capacity and a weak grasp on raw materials, our only lucrative businesses embrace exploitative subscription services, lock-in and planned obsolescence. Every economist in the US could have surmised that this would be an issue following the aforementioned oil/steel rackets. It just switched from the secondary sector to the tertiary sector of the economy.
A short overview with some examples on how the US differs from other regions in this respect: https://www.numberanalytics.com/blog/regulatory-capture-us-l...
This is a meme that doesn't have any bearing in reality. The U.S. remains the world's second-largest manufacturer behind China, with real output reaching an all-time high of $2.5 trillion in 2021. Manufacturing's contribution to U.S. GDP in 2023 was approximately 10.2%, or $2.3 trillion.
The reason the meme persists, I think, is that fewer and fewer folks work in manufacturing, due to a massive increase in automation. In essence, the U.S. didn't offshore manufacturing as much as they automated it. So it seems to have disappeared from an employment perspective, even though in continues to drive the economy.
Automation has significantly boosted productivity and efficiency, enabling higher output, but it has also contributed to the long-term decline in manufacturing employment.
The notion that the U.S. subsists on "exploitative subscription services, lock-in and planned obsolescence" is, while part of the everyday consumer experience, not a good reflection of what is really driving the economy.
Why is that the market's fault? That's like blaming a river for flowing downhill. The most stable configuration in a free market is a monopoly. Obviously everything eventually ends up as one without intervention. It's a mathematical certainty.
This is 100% on regulators allowing that to happen.
The status quo is untenable. We need better regulations that accommodate reality, and leave regulators no choice but to hold companies and people to account for the harms they do.
Free market doesn't mean unregulated. It means that the market reflects the true costs so market participants have free choice. When you have a monopoly, the market is probably not free anymore.
> The market has failed.
So you argue that the capitalist approach failed, and now you advocate for a socialist approach?Maybe the market didn't fail. Maybe the market is providing what the consumers demand. Maybe you are an outlier, different from the rest of the consumers.
Do you feel that there is no option for you on the market? Windows, nor Debian, nor Ubuntu, not Mac meet your needs? Do you think that there are others like you, if so then why not start a business and serve that market? You might have tremendous opportunity here.
A market without rules isn't free. You need to regulate a market in order to keep it free.
Open source means you have as much support as you like to have, because you are the support.
AMD has been making chips literally for decades with investments in Billions. They had to spin their fab business off it was too expensive to keep up with. And even now, it's taken nearly a decade of competitive and leading products to make inroads, and even then they're still under 50% of x86 computers in use.
Linux has been around over 30 years, and is just now cracking 5% desktop market share. This happens while Windows has become less than 10% of Microsoft revenue, with well over a decade of "free" upgrades.
So, yeah, if you're able to get a company started... get billions invested... able to create compelling products without triggering literal mine-fields of IP and legislative restrictions... sure, you might be able to unseat a competitive mega corporation. But unlikely in anything resembling a lifetime measured in less than decades.
Because there are likely many many people in this world who had that thought before you.
And here is where "you have to spend X number of days a year doing CS" should be a requirement for every engineer, dev, product manger, and executive.
I do not think you understand the level of abject stupidity that customers are capable of. I do not think you understand how likely customers are to do dumb things and blame the company.
Companies who provide support charge more for their products to pay for it. How much? Well how many people break things and then ask for refunds. The company pays for those people by marking up all the other products.
IN any organization: first friend outside your team should be in accounting. The second should be in customer service. These are the most valuable resources you will have regarding the tempo of what is going on inside your organization. They are the front line and the oracles of "truth" (the books dont lie, unless your Enron' and then you have bigger problems).
Me: "Would you be able to pull the computer out into the light so that you can check the connection with better lighting instead of the flashlight?"
Customer: "Not really, the power is out."
I worked on the iomega side, second level support, mostly Jazz and OS/2 calls, knew it was going to be a doozy when I got a non-warm zip customer. MCI operated support call center in Chandler, AZ... pretty sure that's where Safelight Auto Glass operates now.
Related: A buddy on the Compaq side of the call center got the infamous "broken cup holder" call. He could barely contain the laughter and popped up having to tell anyone at that moment about it.
On the flip side: if you're an individual, you're at a poker table with a $50 chip—you don't have leverage—you either just take the bet or don't. So you're basically forced to research the laptop/hardware/software you intend to run to verify it's a happy path, or it at least has vendors (or a local PC store) that will help you if something breaks, and hope for the best.
So I guess the question is, would people be willing to pay for good support? Would people even pay for an OS anymore?
They're already doing so, just not receiving it. Microsoft made a yearly profit of 101 billion dollars, or better phrased, 101,000 million dollars. The solution isn't "the consumer pays more", it's "investors earn less".
Or perhaps they'll train them to be cheerfully helpful, but to just dump all the feedback in a virtual circular file. If so, would the chatbot admit this is what happens if the user asked them?
Yep. It's like Whitehouse "petitions". Time-wasting tarpits for the unaware.
> It's like standing up complex automated phone menus, you're going to frustrate a certain number of callers into giving up, and reduce the overall number of customers you have to interact with.
The point of pointless troubleshooting procedures, long forms, long wait times, denials, and inconvenience is to monetize misery and create a maximally-negative conversion funnel. Ask any UnitedHealth or airline CEO.
It's honestly pretty awe inspiring.
Microsoft, are you running low on hosting space, or something?
I mean, how does one of worlds largest software corporations, handing people OneDrive accounts left and right, not to mention all the other digital waste they're busily involved with, lack storage space for some valuable archive pertaining to use of one of the world's most popular OS and associated software suites? Someone should just forbid them to "retire" content, especially if posted by actual people.
Fortunately, The Wayback Machine / Internet Archive works overtime to take upon themselves the responsibility I think would have been best left to Microsoft.
They don’t get to become one of the biggest and most successful companies by providing free services to legacy customers.
Personally, I keep a folder for product manuals. Anything I buy will have a PDF that I archive myself.
Need to change the oily on that generator I bought from Costco five years ago? Not going to find the docs on the web anymore but I have the PDF dated 2020 right here
Obviously that doesn’t work with a searchable software doc site with questions and answers but the fact that webpages could come and go at any time, and digital archival is far worse than clay tablets of antiquity is a lesson we all have to take to heart
Speaking of Win32 but not only that, I too have started being more cautious and pedantic about user manuals and other "paraphernalia" I have to rely on, for instance Win32 API documentation which is getting more scarce to find in sufficient volume and specifically _detail_. So I download and archive it (with implied off-site backup, which I have for most of my "home directory" stuff) -- I agree the only way to guarantee access is to, well, obtain a copy of the document...
This info is not some special epoch to anything. Save the resource use.
This is high tech not conservative politics. What's high tech about old operating systems?
There is also historic value, it would be sad if in 30 years almost all information about modern day operating systems is erased.
Also the DOS DOS of COPY CON CLOCK$.
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[1] https://github.com/otya128/winevdm
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