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Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5

https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-076902
57•renameme•2h ago

Comments

slater•2h ago
(2024)
dlcarrier•59m ago
When the APA elected Philip Zimbardo, creator of the infamous Stanford Prison Experiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment#Cri...), as their president (https://www.apa.org/about/governance/president/bio-philip-zi...) they lost my trust. He came up with a hypothesis on human behavior, then did everything he could to force the data to reflect that, including coercing volunteers into torturing each other.

His whole career revelved around promoting strategies for policing and incarceration that clearly don't work, and the APA celebrated him for it. They have a huge bias toword the notion that everyone needs their help. Problems with the DSM wouldn't matter so much, if the APA hadn't shoehorned themselves, and their bible of the DSM, into countless aspects of government and healthcare.

antithesizer•58m ago
So much graft and politicking masquerading as science these days.
mapontosevenths•46m ago
Sometime in the early 2000's we passed a point where more than 50% of the population had an AXIS 2 or higher chemical disorder[1]. It was around this point that I became skeptical of the DSM.

If the majority of people are crazy, it's likely that our definition of "crazy" needs work.

That said, the situation isn't as dire as some folks with a vested interest would have you believe... If you're reading this and you're someone who needs to hear it: Keep taking your medicine! They'll work the kinks out eventually, and even if there is a conspiracy, it isn't against you personally.

[1] I meant personality disorder. Leaving the mistake to avoid making the thread confusing.

SketchySeaBeast•41m ago
What is an Axis II chemical disorder? I'm fairly certain that Axis II was personality disorders and intellectual disabilities in the DSM IV.

70% of people 60 years of age and older have high blood pressure[1], 50% of men regardless of age. Does this mean that our definition of high blood pressure needs work?

I'm not arguing that the DSM is perfect, but it's possible for something to be bad and also common. But I appreciate the "Keep taking your meds" sentiment as well, it has bigger problem overall, but it can still help people.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db511.htm

mapontosevenths•7m ago
>I'm fairly certain that Axis II was personality disorders and intellectual disabilities in the DSM IV.

You are 100% correct, I thought personality disorders and typed chemical disorders for some reason. I'll leave the mistake so the thread makes sense.

> Does this mean that our definition of high blood pressure need work?

I think there's a difference between a disorder that is defined mechanistically and a disease that is only defined relatively. For example, if you're missing an arm, or at huge risk of stroke that's fairly obvious. However, if you are less happy than average, and more than 50% are also less happy then average... something is wrong with the math.

lazide•26m ago
Eh, also typical American society has become profoundly hostile to actual human needs.
alessandru•23m ago
so ... apa ...the apa that writes the dsm-5, psychiatric disorders, the medical group, is the american PSYCHIATRIC assn.

the psychologists, they never went to medical school, so despite forming an organization and many publications, have little to do with diagnostic standards for medical doctors.

for clarity: THERE ARE TWO APA, the one written about in the article is not the same as the one in this comment.

qualeed•17m ago
The DSM-5 is from the "American Psychiatric Association".

Phillip Zimbardo, and the link you linked to, are the "American Psychological Association".

These are two different associations.

Theresa Miskimen is the president of the American Psychiatric Association, not Zimbardo.

antithesizer•1m ago
Oh, thank goodness. In that case there is no corruption in the mental health industry/academia.

Different orgs, guys! Forget about it!

gizajob•27m ago
What a surprise.
richgroot•3m ago
So these folks are implying that the rework of the DSM-4 into DSM-5 was tainted in some way by association of the authors with pharma or other industries? Do I understand that correctly?

Is there an example that anyone has pointed to where DSM-5 could have been written differently, to the detriment of a commercial enterprise? (What little I've read in the DSM-5 is enough to leave one with glazed eyes.)

readthenotes1•2m ago
I wonder how much of the DSM is based on loose correlations, non-replicated or fraudulent research.

I get the feeling that we understand how our brains work about as well as we understand how well mitochondria work - - and I see reports of new findings on mitochondria fairly regularly...

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