> Lethal violence is the line that should only be crossed when it, too, is the last available option.
No, violence is never necessary. Once you use violence, you start the downward spiral of perpetual hatred; after all, if someone harms one that you love, forgiveness becomes difficult.
The only solution to perpetual hatred is peace, understanding and love.
As long as you think violence is a solution, you'll gravitate toward the short term gratification that may or may not come therewith.
Get that out of your head.
Violence is never the answer.
Violence can be the answer. We are nowhere near that point in America.
The murder of Kirk wasn’t a thoughtful application of violence. It was a tantrum, and this being the U.S., one acted out with a gun.
If you are indeed willing to call the police then you are simply outsourcing your violence to someone else. I personally do have friends who are proper pacifists -- they would not fight an attacker (but would try to deescalate them or run away), and they would not call the cops under basically any circumstances.
That has taught me that pacifism requires a lot of bravery. Whereas saying "violence is never the answer" is usually cheap, thoughtless rhetoric.
This is admirable and works in a lot of situations. But exhausting nonviolent options can foreclose success and be abused by an opponent.
It is an understandable argument but like "think of the children" it can also be used to normalize the violence of the state and de-legitimize legitimate dissent.
The entire country is flying flags flags at half staff in honor of Charlie Kirk. His murder is filling headlines across the country. It's being declared an act of domestic terrorism, and right-wingers are calling for civil war. Meanwhile the explicitly politically motivated murders of Melissa and Mark Holtman, the attacks on Nancy Pelosi and her husband, and the plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer go utterly unremarked upon.
We notice when the rhetoric about nonviolence implies that only one side should stand down.
- Gabrielle Giffords (2011) - shot in the head, survived.
- Gretchen Whitmer (2020) - kidnapping plot foiled by the FBI.
- Paul Pelosi (2022) - hammer blows to the head, survived.
- Josh Shapiro (2024) - arson attacked family home while Josh Shapiro along with this wife and kids were residing at the time.
- Melissa and John Hoffman (2025) - Murdered by a man posing as law enforcement.
Now you want me to get concerned that MAGA might get upset with the murder of Charlie Kirk? I'm supposed to get concerned that MAGA is going to use this event as a rally cry - a rally cry for what, exactly? More violence? What does that say about them? That's just a threat they make to further their use of fear and intimidation to silence their critics. As I told my grown children time and time again while they were growing up: don't ever use the excuse that someone "made you" do something to rationalize your behavior. You chose your behavior, stop making excuses to justify it. Own it.
If I recall several of the alleged plotters were found not guilty or hung jury because some of the jurors were having trouble with who even came up with and encouraged the plot.
A guy I've never heard of getting assassinated and it making to the top of news, while a bunch of other people cheer it on, is one input.
If I just randomly hear some guy was shot by the local schizophrenic, no I probably won't look up their videos.
Audience question (paraphrasing): "How many mass shootings have been committed by transgender people?" (Answer: one)
Kirk: "Too many."
Audience question: "How many mass shootings have taken place, in total?"
Kirk: "Counting or not counting gang violence?" Exeunt
Should he have been killed? No, obviously not. But those who believe the world was a better place with him in it are probably mistaken. Like Musk, he literally argued that empathy was a bad thing, so I'll spend mine elsewhere.
He was basically the founder and figurehead of the MAGA youth movement. So he is probably as responsible as anyone for the election of Trump and all that has happened as a result. In my book that indeed makes him a pretty bad guy.
Essentially, if you want to resort to the usual Nazi cliches, what happened here was that MAGA lost their Goebbels rather than their Horst Wessel.
So let me get this straight, you didn't know who was Charlie Kirk, you only decided to look him up after he died, and you're so noncommittal about it that after 24 hours you still have no idea who he was (and why people hated him), and at the same time you're invested enough to write passive aggressive remarks on his haters?
Someone's not being honest here.
The truth is I like to debate people, even if I am bad at it, my knee-jerk without more information is I don't like the idea of a guy getting shot during a live debate when I know little about him beyond that's the thing he does. I can tell you on what little I've gathered, I don't agree with the guy on much of anything except some of his pro 2A beliefs, I have no particular reason to cover for him.
I did watch a few of his videos shortly ago, he wasn't particularly persuasive and seemed to capitalize on debating people younger and less skilled than him, rather than attacking weakly defendable positions he just takes cheap shots at college kids knowing he's more polished than them. Still I'm not tracking why the world is a better place without him.
I really don't think there are "loads" of people saying he needed to die at all. Just a few fringe wingnuts. There are many people who do not mourn him but that's different to "he needed to die".
Meanwhile, there is a group who condemn this and all murders. They largely believe the offenders in these cases should be prosecuted to deter similar actions. However, they can't find much empathy for the particular victim. This group is significantly larger. Members of this group are sometimes mistaken for members of the former group because of that noise.
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But because clicks and outrage rule supreme we end up with screenshots of a couple of dozen nobodies saying controversial things used to paint the "other side" as unhinged and violent. I wish we could all move beyond it but we seem unable.