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Betty Crocker broke recipes by shrinking boxes

https://www.cubbyathome.com/boxed-cake-mix-sizes-have-shrunk-80045058
67•Avshalom•1h ago

Comments

AfterHIA•1h ago
Shiver mi' timbers Terence; it's been a hard day and only Kraft Dinner can calm my nerves.
brianwawok•1h ago
I feel like a giant buying groceries anymore. Oh great 10 ounce box of cereal; that will be 2 bowls if I am lucky. So dumb, just show the real price and keep the portion the same.
lbourdages•1h ago
The thing is that there is a greater incentive to shrink than to inflate prices. Or at least, to do a combination of the two.

Price-conscious consumers will probably choose the shrunk item over another brand that increased their price, even though the price per unit might be the same.

ajsnigrutin•57m ago
Sure, and ads are a nice thing on websites.

At one points, animated videos with sound covering all the content were too much, and people started installing adblocks.

Same with food, i never bought an 80g bar of chocolate and i never will, and i've gone home chocolateless because of that.

stephen_g•53m ago
Do you have price per unit on the price tags in your grocery stores? They have to show that by law in my country, not sure if it makes a huge difference because not everyone knows to compare though.
lbourdages•45m ago
We do, but not everyone looks at them. I certainly do not always look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is tissues/toilet paper/paper towels. Sometimes the price is "per roll", sometimes it is "per sheets". Sometimes it's even different between different package sizes of the same product. It's infuriating to have to bust out the calculator to figure out if the deal on the 6 pack is a better price than the regular priced 12 pack.

apparent•41m ago
Some stores where I live have this, but others don't. And at some stores that do show it, the only reasonable prices are the items that are "on sale". And the sale prices don't have the price per unit, of course.
dripton•30m ago
We do have unit prices, but sometimes they vary the unit from product to product within the same product category, making them useless for comparison. This one is by weight, this one is by volume, this one is by count. At that point you have to do all the math yourself, which most people won't.

I don't know whether that's done intentionally. Hanlon's Razor says to assume not without proof.

iterance•46m ago
Consumers may do this, but consumers also hate shrinkflation with a passion. Raising a price is understandable and a consumer can rationalize inflation, but shrinking the amount given can feel deceptive, untrustworthy, or exploitative. Brands that do it are playing with fire. They may not yet get burned.
neilv•9m ago
I wish there would be negative feedback to shrinkflation, yet, even in my own buying behavior (and I might do more things "on-principle" than the average consumer) I mostly still stick with brands of product I've found I like or that work for me, so long as the shrinkflation remains suspiciously mostly in lockstep with other brands.

What I've seen does get consumer negative feedback is when, say, Club(?) brand crackers change owners and formula, and lose their buttery taste.

And lately I've been wondering whether Post raisin bran has deteriorated to be the same as Kellogg's. I'm feeling less loyal to Post, and have started experimenting with more brands (e.g., WFM's store brand isn't much more expensive). And also straying to other kinds of product (e.g., Grape Nuts still offers fiber for healthy trumps, but less sugar than raisin bran, and it actually doesn't taste bad to adults).

Recently, I'm seeing more negative feedback to bean-counter-looking product changes in sensitive skin products. For example, Aveeno changed their sensitive-skin fragrance-free body wash to have strong fragrance(!) which made me and others incredulously furious. And Cetaphil (an expensive sensitive-skin brand often recommended by doctors, for which you might spend 10x what a bar you used to buy soap costs) changed their formula in a way that caused many devotees to report breaking out in rashes.

(If you have sensitive skin, or you ever got painful contact dermatitis, and desperately replaced all the products that might've triggered that... you become a very loyal customer of whatever working solution you found. And a new CEO, perhaps trying to cash in long-term brand goodwill and customer base, such as to hit a personal compensation performance target... is pure evil to you.)

kjkjadksj•31m ago
Party size bag of chips is like $7.50 now. It’s absurd. I’m just buying potatoes and frying them up in a skillet lately.
mh-•1h ago
> “It’s just so upsetting,” says Judith, whose cookie recipe was passed down by her mother. These “perfect little cookies” once made the rounds at bake sales, Christmas cookie exchanges, and birthdays.

> a box of Betty Crocker chocolate cake mix, two eggs, and 1/3 cup neutral oil

I realize it's not the point of the story, but this is like that Friends episode[0] where Phoebe finds out her grandmother's secret cookie recipe was just Nestle Tollhouse.

[0]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0583536/

Avshalom•1h ago
I can't find the article about it just this second but that's actually really common.

Greenbean casserole was invented by a Campbell's copywriter.

neilv•1h ago
I've had the tiniest nagging confusion about that...

From what I recall, it seemed pretty common to use the recipe on the bag of chocolate chips, yet somehow each family's cookies came out different.

My mom's instantiation of the bag recipe, for example, were pretty consistent across runs, yet not quite like anyone else's (that you're exposed to at friends' houses, school birthdays, bake sales, church potlucks, family reunions, cafes, ad photos, etc.)

beloch•57m ago
Cookies are surprisingly sensitive to slightly different ingredients or practices. e.g. Using different brands of butter, different sizes of eggs, or storing the dough at different temperatures can have a large impact on the final product, even though the same recipe was followed.
MangoToupe•7m ago
Baking in general is very sensitive. I've made batches of cookies that I've tried to reproduce for years but, because I didn't take notes, could not. Hell even the altitude you bake at requires significant adjustment.
jhawk28•55m ago
Two main mistakes that people make: 1. "scoop and dump" approach to flour. Flour should be spooned into the measuring cup so its not packed in. 2. over-baking cookies due to cooking too long or oven that is too hot or not hot enough.
karlshea•47m ago
Flour should be weighed.
Dilettante_•46m ago
The flour should not be packed? I've always done it like that, it seemed so obvious that that would give a less random result that having it loose. I guess I'll weigh it and check against the markings on my measuring cup next time.
shermantanktop•11m ago
Weighing is the only weigh.
tzs•34m ago
Or measure flour by weight instead of volume.
Thegn•55m ago
I can speak to this - the main variations are in the kind of butter you use. Using salted, unsalted, or margarine result in similar yet different cookies. I personally use unsalted and feel like it creates the most “cookie” like experience. Flour brand and texture also makes a difference. You will get a very different result based on using the store brand vs (for example) King Arthur flour.
Avshalom•48m ago
Well I mean weight vs volume, actual oven temp, full fat vs skim, salted or unsalted. There's a lot of little variables even "following" a recipe.
cjensen•25m ago
The tollhouse recipe is amazingly fragile. Slight variations in temperature can make the cookies "go flat" or end up with a thick skin. No surprise there is a variation of outcomes using older ovens that were very imprecise.
Balgair•16m ago
I mean, also, when was the last time you had your oven properly calibrated? How sure are you that it's actually 350 F?
derefr•7m ago
IIRC this would mostly be temperature offset + ease of oven temperature swings in response to introduction of thermal mass; plus humidity and altitude (= air pressure.)

(If you want to learn about reproducibility, look up what the factories making the packaged-snack version of your food tend to control for!)

beloch•1h ago
If the origin of these recipes was indeed Betty Crocker's own marketing department, undoing a very successful bit of advertising in this manner would be hilariously dumb.

In any case, it typically pays to carefully observe how people use your products before you change them.

gwd•1h ago
Speaking as an American, this is a part of American culture that's so weird -- using a pre-made mix as a base for a recipe that it's not designed for. That recipe looks like it just has flour, cocoa powder, baking powder, and salt pre-mixed (with a load of other garbage you probably don't need). People don't seem to realize that you can just buy those ingredients yourself. It doesn't take that much extra time to measure them out, and it's way cheaper.
mh-•58m ago
I think people know you can purchase baking ingredients.

There are both familiarity (consistency) and convenience aspects here.

rjh29•48m ago
If you're only making cakes occasionally it's a pain to buy all the ingredients and have them sit around. Besides, even professional bakers use premix.
rimprobablyly•25m ago
Oh no they don't.
ericpauley•17m ago
Oh yes they do: https://youtu.be/CZDFwqHkPec

(Also linked above)

SamoyedFurFluff•46m ago
As an Asian I understood this as the same as when I buy curry cubes from the store. It would definitely mess up my day if the size of a bouillon cube changed even though I know I could make my own broth.
AlotOfReading•46m ago
Cake mixes aren't just the ingredients in a convenient package. They're a complicated ingredient that produces different results than mixing from scratch.

Adam Ragusea did a piece on the differences awhile ago:

https://youtu.be/CZDFwqHkPec

Boxed mixes came out of the same "scientific foods" fad in midcentury America that gave us things like Jello.

brian-armstrong•45m ago
This sounds like the argument people make against Hawaiian food. Why use Spam! You can eat real food you know!

Thing is, once something has been done a certain way, it becomes a tradition in its own right. It doesn't really matter how it got to be that way, but once people have nostalgia for it, they want to keep doing it the same way.

pessimizer•43m ago
Spam is a hell of a lot harder to make than cake mix. Cake mix is literally just measuring, and what was in the box when your mom made it isn't from the same suppliers, or probably of the same quality, as what's in the box now.
brian-armstrong•42m ago
But these bakers don't want "cake mix", they want the specific Betty Crocker cake mix
sevensor•44m ago
Do you, does anybody, actually eat Campbell’s concentrated Cream of Mushroom Soup? It’s nominally a soup, but it’s designed to be an ingredient. It’s the foundation of all our favorite gloppy casseroles.
Xcelerate•40m ago
Homemade cake mixes rarely win blind taste tests against box mix. I baked two cakes with and without glycerol monostearate—it really does make a difference.
thaumasiotes•29m ago
https://satwcomic.com/family-time

On the merits of using a presold mix, you're likely to get a smooth batter with much less stirring effort.

senkora•1h ago
This definitely seems like a case where continuing to increase the price makes more sense than shrinking the box.

Maybe we’ll see a reversal if sales actually go down?

estimator7292•1h ago
The problem with expecting the fairy godmother of the market to fix food is that food is not a product consumers can go without. Sales can't go down.

Sales will, in fact, continue to go up as people now have to buy twice the item count to get the same calories.

The Market is not a benevolent magical entity. It is a machine that only has a single variable: profit.

Loughla•1h ago
Um. I'm not sure anyone needs Betty crocker cake or cookies.

You can skip about 7/8ths of every grocery store and still get your calories and nutrients.

Maybe people will start doing that?

ajsnigrutin•55m ago
Sales of betty crocker mix can go down.

Grandma will now search for a cookie recipe without the shrunken mix and go buy flour and eggs and vanilla sugar.

relaxing•16m ago
vanilla and sugar has also shrinkflated
MangoToupe•5m ago
Vanilla and sugar are both relatively fungible commodities. If one brand shrinks, buy another one.
WaltPurvis•52m ago
This is an article about cake and cookie mixes. Nobody has to buy cake and cookie mixes; the article actually covers a woman who has stopped. And even for other kinds of packaged food, if people can't count on the brand names they're used to, they're more likely to explore other brands or generics, so the sales of one particular brand could very easily go down.
kjkjadksj•27m ago
While that is true, no one needs betty crocker food to survive. There is plenty of food in the grocery store that is basically not essential at all and exist because of price and value proposition, and this is the stuff people are turning away from now that the price doesn’t support the value. Even among stuff like cuts of meat, people are probably shifting to cheaper cuts and bulk deals.
DonHopkins•1h ago
What a Betty Crocker of Enshitification.
rimprobablyly•24m ago
Aka Betty Crapper.
analog8374•1h ago
Speaking of cookie recipes, have you tried the Neiman Marcus Chocolate Chip Cookie recipe?

Bejabbers it's fine. Pecan flour. Walnuts. 2 kinds of chocolate...

Costs $50 to do a batch tho.

CoastalCoder•53m ago
Is every batch $50, or is some of the cost from stocking up on some uncommon ingredients?
mwilliaams•51m ago
Which recipe are you following? I found a few, including one on the Neiman Marcus website, but none had pecan flour and only one had walnuts.
xbar•24m ago
The one from email spam circa 2003?
eulgro•1h ago
Why would you buy overpriced cake mix in the first place? Buy flour, sugar, cocoa and sodium bicarbonate and... that's it?

Oh wait you probably have all of them already.

eichin•57m ago
According to some (youtube) experiments, commercial brownie mix produces some aspects of brownies more consistently because it's ground finer (and mixed more uniformly) than the ingredients you can usually source. So it's not quite that simple (though it mostly is.)
muppetman•55m ago
Because you live in a small apartment and don't have storage space for a thing of flour, a thing of sugar, cocoa you might use twice a year?

Because you have little kids and you want to give them a single easy-to-follow box with instructions on it?

Because you value convenience?

Honestly, what a silly take. The world thrives on convenience products.

kjkjadksj•25m ago
The people relying on cake mid probably don’t have any of that in their pantry.
Balgair•8m ago
I had a family member that used to work for the county in the SNAP-like assistance program.

He was aghast at the state of the average family. No, not the average one coming to the county for assistance, just the average.

The average household in the county was without a kitchen. Maybe a dorm fridge, maybe a microwave or a hotplate, typically neither. A Winnebago had better food preparation than the average county resident. Oh and the household thing was a huge misnomer, as census-wise the physical house has 3+ households in it. People were crammed in!. Plumbing problems were huge deals!

Like even considering to bake a cake on your own was laughable. You didn't even know of anyone that you could borrow an oven from. The poverty in the county was, and remains, shockingly high.

Havoc•1h ago
Yeah I can understand shrinkflation style adjustments but they're starting to hit inflection points like this.

Amazon just adjusted the Amazon Grocery minimums +25%...and now it just doesn't work anymore for a 1 person household. It's not that I can't afford it...it's just too much stuff in one go. Forces shifting buying patterns from fresh to frozen & shelf stable junk. I'm not doing +25% bigger cart sizes for a shit diet Amazon

haunter•55m ago
>“It’s just so upsetting,” says Judith,

I'd be very upset too if my grandma was using a cake mix for cooking

nightfly•44m ago
Why?
MostlyStable•26m ago
There are professional bakers that use cake mix. Cake mix is basically the exact same ingredients as one would use if making their own, sometimes with the addition of ingredients that are usually improvements but that almost no home baker would regularly carry. Among all the various pre-packaged/pre-prepared ingredients, dry cake mix is probably the one for which pretentiousness about quality makes the least sense. And this comes from someone who never uses them and makes 100% of my own cake batter....but that's because my family bakes enough that I always have all the of the necessary ingredients on hand, so there is almost no extra convenience for us.
nanolith•40m ago
Much to the chagrin of my mother, I made it a point about a decade ago to standardize old family recipes on "from scratch" versions. As part of the process, I also did some research on old recipes and fixed some of the corruption of these recipes that occurred during the copying and recitation, bolstering them with culinary techniques that were in use at the time. I also captured things that drift over time, such as crude protein and carbohydrate measurements and grind sizes in flour. I provided standardized weights and measurements, in MKS units, preferring mass, when possible, over volume.

She's upset that the recipes are different, but when it comes to recipes from the thirties and later based on using a box of this or a can of that, these recipes are resistant to shrinkflation. The downside is that these recipes miss out on the advanced chemistry that went into making these boxed mixes so great to begin with. But, in my opinion, that's a small price to pay for reproducibility.

Some recipes, like cakes and cookies, will need to be adjusted once a generation. For these recipes, I include notes about how to tell when certain ingredients are "off" so that these can be re-calibrated as ingredients change in the future. Ingredients change. Some are no longer available. Others are derived from newer varieties or hybrids that have different flavor profiles. For instance, bananas taste differently than they did sixty years ago. That old and dusty banana pudding recipe meant to reproduce that amazing pudding that your great-grandmother used to make won't taste the same unless you adjust the amount of isoamyl acetate; modern varieties have less of this compound than the old Gros Michel varieties did. You can occasionally find Gros Michel bananas if you want to taste the difference, but they are no longer a viable cash crop due to their susceptibility to Panama disease.

frainfreeze•33m ago
Very interesting! Have you by any chance shared the recepies anywhere?
zurtri•33m ago
Thank you for this. I had never considered this "drift" in recipes and ingredients.
Blahah•22m ago
What a beautiful story. This - generally, a journey through the drift of recipe fidelity over time, and specifically grounded in your story - would make a great book. Mark Kurlansly has some lovely books that weave the history of recipes with history generally. His history of Salt is truly captivating.
Balgair•20m ago
Wait I thought Gris Michel went extinct?!

Where oh where on God's green earth did they survive and can I get them shipped!?

AlotOfReading•8m ago
They still exist, mainly on small scale farms in tropical countries. You can find them in local markets.
cptskippy•34m ago
I wish they would just increase the price. The shrinking can sizes have messed quite a few of my recipes.

It's deceptive and people know something is off. I personally don't have the energy to figure out what's up and don't want 3/4 of a can of something sitting in the fridge.

My response is to just stop making broken recipes which means I stop buying those products entirely as they have lost their value and my trust.

rimprobablyly•28m ago
Hopefully this'll be the end of this boxed mixes. You need to add a few ingredients to them anyway. Just add a few more and feel like a sourcerer. Your cakes will glow octarine.
xbar•26m ago
A Sauceror? You can also make your own spaghetti and become a Pastamancer...
xbar•27m ago
I hope Duncan Hines is reading this.
UberFly•19m ago
Shrinkflation has made me healthier. I just buy the basic ingredients and make everything myself now. Sad that every part of being a consumer any more feels like I'm being had. Costco is the only place that I feel is being straight with me.
kikokikokiko•14m ago
The most infuriating case of shrinkflation I've encontered yet is abot the "Oreo" style cookies, that were used to be sold on packages where each cookie was stacked on top of another, "laying flat". Over time, rhe packages started getting lighter, the cookies itself started getring smaller etc. Then, a couple years ago, those packages started having the cookies "side by side", instead of laying one on top of the other... I refuse to buy any brand that uses these types of shenanigans. Fuck shrinkflation.
cosmotic•11m ago
If the box mix stops working then people will stop buying it and throw the recipes away, leading to a lasting reduction sales.

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