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I just want an 80×25 console, but that's no longer possible

https://changelog.complete.org/archives/10881-i-just-want-an-80x25-console-but-thats-no-longer-possible
28•teddyh•2h ago

Comments

throwaway1777•1h ago
Getting an old machine is the way. I can’t think of why I would want this and I’m old so I don’t think it’s coming back.
kevin_thibedeau•1h ago
You can still have a console on a serial port with a dumb terminal. Plenty of SFF PCs have them via RJ45 ports.
dapperdrake•1h ago
Booted a Dell mini PC with debian, but without X11 and attached a video projector. The old StackOverflow answers to fix overscan problems failed to do anything. Editing sshd configuration files with the first six text columns off screen is quite a unique experience.
kwk1•13m ago
Last time I dealt with this I launched tmux and started working on the right side of the screen with a vertical split.
superice•57m ago
Yes, and I want FireWire. Oh, and I'd really prefer 16 bit real mode CPUs. While we're at it, why not go for support for serial connection mice?

This reads like such an arbitrary wish without a reasoning WHY you would want this. I'm sure OP has a reason for preferring it, but what makes the 80x25 superior in their opinion?

bombcar•47m ago
One reason it could be nice is what I experienced a decade or so ago, the damn machine kept changing video modes during boot and the LCD couldn't keep up so an important screen was missed when diagnosing a boot issue.

Had to get a CRT to see what the hell was going on.

IcePic•37m ago
This even applies to remove-viewing software that wants to "follow" the resolution changes, flipping your remote window size around a lot. Super annoying.
autoexec•46m ago
The author listed several reasons why they want it.

Also, it should still be possible to connect a serial mouse to a modern system thanks to adapters. I still have serial to PS/2 and PS/2 to USB adapters floating around in a tackle box.

Galanwe•38m ago
> The author listed several reasons why they want it.

To be fair, they listed reasons to need a 80x25 terminal, but not reasons to need a 80x25 console. I'm a bit unclear as to why they could not use a regular 80x25 term in their graphical session.

cyberax•25m ago
> PS/2 to USB adapters floating around in a tackle box.

Heh. [Most] PS/2 to USB adapters aren't.

They don't actually adapt the PS/2 protocol to USB, they just adapt the pins. The USB _hardware_ on the host does the emulation. However, the new generations of USB chips stopped bothering with the PS/2 emulation so these adapters are now useless.

autoexec•16m ago
Damn, in that case I'm certain that the ones I have gathering dust, all of which came from various packaged mice/keyboards, won't be up to the task. I've got enough old hardware they might still come in handy one day, but I'm pretty sure they're now just relics.
dijit•40m ago
I think the author is making the argument for consistency.

I actually always disliked the modeset that the author remembers fondly, but it is always sad to lose part of our history for arbitrary reasons and especially so if it breaks a ungoverned consistency.

To use your example: Real mode still exists and you can use it, and firewire is effectively the father of Thunderbolt (and granddaddy to Thunderbolt 3-4); so its removal really does feel unnecessary without additional context.

Serial mice is masochism, but people do dislike that PS/2 is gone, for good reasons.

jcalvinowens•26m ago
I don't really get the 80x25 thing, but using dumb terminals to write code is great. Zero distractions.

More than half the code I've been paid to write in the past 2-3 years has been written in vim running on a vtty with no X and no mouse. It's my favorite way to work, although occasionally it's impractical.

bpye•16m ago
You can still plug in a FireWire PCIe card and have it work - I still use one for an old 35mm film scanner.

I think serial mice should still work as well - https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Serial_mouse

autoexec•55m ago
While some people might not see the need for it, the author lists several reasons why it'd be nice to have. The article mentions that there are multiple old (and no longer working) workarounds and tricks that used to allow for 80x25 and presumably those existed and were shared online because others also wanted it.

I don't see why it shouldn't be possible? It seems like a reasonable thing to want to be able to change and even force resolutions to whatever your hardware will support, especially if there's a large amount of old software out there which expects a certain resolution. Old computers are very nice to have, but increasingly difficult to find and find working parts for. They also tend to come with some pretty big trade offs in terms of size, noise, and energy inefficiency. It'd mean a lot of less than ideal hardware just to get back something that people already had.

dreamlayers•44m ago
If you want a custom resolution in Linux drm.edid_firmware= works well with the right EDID.

For me, the worst things about the Linux graphical console are lack of scrollback and horrible performance. Linux still has scrollback in VGA text mode, and of course it is super fast because each character is only 2 bytes. In graphics mode you can only fix this by running a program that provides its own graphical terminal, like kmscon or fbterm.

The best thing about the graphical console is ability to use bigger fonts, so your characters can be smooth and not pixelated. I like the Terminus fonts. As long as performance isn't a problem it's better to increase font size than to decrease the resolution.

hamandcheese•28m ago
> Linux still has scrollback in VGA text mode

Dumb question: when I boot a modern systemd-based distro installer in terminal mode, am I using "VGA text mode" or "graphics mode"? Do I have to be literally using VGA to use VGA text mode?

EDIT: I read TFA and it seems like the answer is that I probably have never used VGA text mode.

toast0•9m ago
Depends. A UEFI boot is going to put you in graphics mode; I don't think you can get into VGA text mode from an UEFI boot, without some serious dark arts. UEFI has a text mode console API, but it's part of bootservices and those are exited somewhere on the way to starting the Linux kernel.

If you're doing a BIOS boot, you might be using VGA text mode, if you haven't loaded a framebuffer driver. VGA text mode works over BNC, DVI, HDMI, DP, etc, if that was your question, you don't need a VGA connector. EGA text mode might be similar enough to also work, but that's outside my depth.

I'm not sure that Linux uses it, but VGA has nice things to accelerate scrolling. You can set the top of the screen down into the buffer, and then set a line number where it resets to the top of the buffer. If you set the line stride so that it evenly divides the buffer (typically wider than the line width), it makes scrolling and wrapping around the buffer very simple and elegant.

UEFI GOP doesn't provide any mechanism for a buffer larger than what's displayed, so scrolling requires copying. :(

yetihehe•5m ago
Sorry, might be dumb question (at work on windows now), but when did shift+pgup stop working?
jcalvinowens•32m ago
The 24x32 Terminus font is my favorite. It's exactly 80 columns wide at 1080p, just over 33 rows. I run it on 4K screens though.
0xbadcafebee•27m ago
Is it just me or is this a misunderstanding of computer architecture? The computer can only output what the screen can support (native resolution), the screen can only display what the video card gives it, the video card can only display what the video card driver tells it to do. They all have to work in tandem.

If the system you're using (ARM??) doesn't have a particular fbdev driver, it still works thanks to the simpledrm weirdness. But if you want very particular results, you're gonna need to ship a driver for your card, to tell the card what to do, to tell the monitor what to do. The complaint seems to be that architectures change? I dunno what to tell you man. I hate technology too, but it do be changin'.

thakoppno•16m ago
80 x 24 is the original teletype size.

Personal preference are tautological.

mieses•11m ago
The SGI Irix boot console was 80 characters wide and kind of elegant. It worked on different resolutions and looked like a floating window where the margins could be of arbitrary size.
whyandgrowth•6m ago
Sorry, but I don't understand why you even need an 80x25 console instead of a standard one.

Maybe I don't understand something, so please explain?

bdamm•1m ago
Honestly, good riddance.

And let's chuck into the dustbin of history fiddling with IRQ dipswitches to disambiguate your mouse, video, disk, and audio controllers; the "turbo" button; "It is now safe to turn off your computer"; CGA/EGA/VGA/HGA/MCGA/SVGA/XGA, RLL/MFM/SCSI/IDE, and while we're at it, TSR programs like sound drivers, mouse drivers, etc. Let's not even discuss OS/2.

You know what sucked? Booting up into CGA and not being able to figure out how to escape that abomination. Why not pine for that?

All of this trash is behind us and frankly I think we're better off for it. If you want to go play with obsolete computers, then finding some old computers and some old computer junkies who still enjoy that junk is the right way to go. Personally, I had my fun, but I like our modern machines so much more than those old smokey capacitor poppers. But I have to admit, I almost miss compiling my own kernel. Almost.

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