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As Android developer verification gets ready to go, a new reason to be worried

https://www.androidauthority.com/android-sideload-offline-3598988/
46•josephcsible•1h ago

Comments

TheCraiggers•1h ago
It just keeps getting worse. I think this is going to single-handedly destroy the OSS ecosystem that Android enjoys. It is incredibly frustrating watching this play out without having an alternative to migrate to.
OutOfHere•1h ago
It would be righteous for it to destroy all of Android, not just its ecosystem.

The obvious alternative is Linux phones. Granted, the tech sets us back by maybe two decades, but at least we're almost at the stage where we can rapidfire develop our own apps or open source apps using LLM assistance.

philipallstar•1h ago
Then the Linux phones will come under regulatory pressure to reveal this information and shut down freedoms.
TheCraiggers•47m ago
Who would they pressure? And even if they were successful in pressuring them, people would just remove it or fork.
pessimizer•18m ago
The chipmakers. In my dystopia, there are military permanently stationed at all of them, making sure that nothing gets out of there that can run unauthorized OSes or LLMs. Innovation Force.
thewebguyd•1h ago
It's extending beyond mobile too, which is terrifying.

Anonymity is under attack in general

eddieroger•4m ago
Anonymity isn't under attack, we've been giving it away since MySpace and Facebook. Why forcibly take what you're willingly given?
Workaccount2•1h ago
Just remember that the play store was ruled a monopoly and the app store wasn't because the "app store doesn't even allow competition, so how could it be anti-competitive?"

It's no surprise that Google will start mirroring Apple more if closed ecosystems cannot be monopolies.

seanw444•1h ago
Our legal system is such a joke.
nine_k•46m ago
You mean, it does not have competition?
sigmar•22m ago
I assume the other commentor is saying "it's a joke" that the courts are holding google to stricter rules as to how they operate because the OS is more open (in that third parties can run other browsers and software). Google is responding by locking their platform down to be more like apple's walled-garden, so they avoid future scrutiny. Ironically, anti-competition laws (as written) are encouraging google to perform anti-competitive practices because the courts would rather google control the entire OS rather than makes default-software-deals with third party device manufacturers.
gjsman-1000•22m ago
The government isn't worried about control, but economics.

Google verifying developer identities but not controlling distribution, satisfies all relevant economic considerations. If it was about not letting Google control Android, they certainly wouldn't be letting Google decide the development roadmap. (The $25 fee doesn't count - the government has no problem charging multiples of that for anyone who drives a car or wants an ID card.)

As for Apple, they still have their antitrust lawsuit ongoing. Apple v Epic was only the first fire.

fidotron•1h ago
A key question here is if installation of Google Apps can fail verification if the device is offline, or if they have some magic local public key chain of pre-authed all OK keys.

DEVELOPER_VERIFICATION_FAILED_REASON_DEVELOPER_BLOCKED is very clearly the purpose of the whole thing. Presumably this one can be triggered on an already installed app - a key question being how that triggering occurs. i.e. will the Play Store act to push out details of developers that are now blocked so devices can act on it?

bri3d•30m ago
> Presumably this one can be triggered on an already installed app - a key question being how that triggering occurs. i.e. will the Play Store act to push out details of developers that are now blocked so devices can act on it?

Your "presumably" is doing a _lot_ of work; these strings are from the PackageInstaller, and go along with all of the other reasons you can't install an APK.

Historically, apps that were pulled from the Play Store and developer accounts revoked due to malware do _not_ affect apps on the end-user device, and there's no current sign of this changing with this specific project. Google have generally achieved this goal using Play Protect, the separate app/service which _can_ download revocation lists and signal end-users to delete malicious apps, and there's no indication this will change.

robcohen•1h ago
Honestly, for people who value privacy and security: What exactly is the plan?

It seems like we're going from a reasonably acceptable option (GrapheneOS), to nothing.

seanw444•1h ago
If ever there was a time for Linux phones to gain renewed development interest, it's now.
beanjuiceII•45m ago
its a great idea but i think the work to make something practical is extremely high
uyzstvqs•36m ago
I'll add to this that libadwaita is really good, and manages to scale applications between desktop and mobile extremely well. Far better than any other mobile-desktop convergence I've seen before. Flatpak also offers a very good method for distributing apps in an easy and largely decentralized way.
burnt-resistor•24m ago
The problem extends far deeper than just FOSS for mobile and IoT. There isn't competitive OSHW. The entire pipeline for silicon hardware development (PCB dev is relatively easy) is virtually locked away behind gates that require identity and/or address verification, node-locked trial licenses or sometimes big license fees paid to one or more big 3 EDA vendors. And that's even before getting anywhere need talking to a fab.
sensen•7m ago
There's a part of me that wishes Firefox OS remained viable and overcame its problems where it could've become a viable alternative. I'm hopeful for the future of Linux phones, but I've yet to see a product that looks like it's reliable and works well..
logicchains•52m ago
Buy a Linux phone or contribute to development of the Linux phone ecosystem, and accept that while it may lag behind in features, it makes up for that in freedom and privacy. Potentially keep a cheap Apple/Android around for stuff like banking software that only works on them.
everdrive•52m ago
Avoid using your phone, don't install apps, don't rely on it for anything, and stick it in a drawer most of the time. Phones have ALWAYS been a bad bet for privacy, and we've been losing this cat and mouse game for years. I agree that what's happening lately seems like a real watershed moment, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time.
sfotm•41m ago
Maybe I missed it, but assuming GrapheneOS doesn't adhere to this verification, or provides some OS-level way to disable it, what makes Graphene worse after this change?
traverseda•9m ago
GrapheneOS is only allowed to live because google lets it. This signals a wider ecosystem change that tells us that GrapheneOS is going to stop being usable when this generation of hardware dies. This generation or maybe the one after it.
bri3d•28m ago
This is orthogonal to GrapheneOS; GrapheneOS's utility is being eroded by Device Attestation, but this change is irrelevant as GrapheneOS will already fail strict attestation.
flerchin•59m ago
I just don't get it. It's not their device to decide what code can run on it. They can gatekeep at their store, because it's their store.
burnt-resistor•26m ago
Clippy would never take away things you own. https://youtu.be/2_Dtmpe9qaQ
gjsman-1000•32m ago
I recently put my finger on what has been changing lately, especially after the assassination:

We used to say, that online speech, is not the same as in-person speech.

Online, you can yell horrible things, imply that somebody should "do something" about another person, but police showing up at your door is a tyranny, even if those same things on a street corner would've had you on involuntary commitment. Online, a developer might build an app that pulls off phishing scams, but they have the complete right to be anonymous. Meanwhile, the person cutting your hair, preparing your food, or even selling you flowers needs registration, if only for taxes. In person was a "real" threat, while online was just "venting," "trolling."

That's dying. Online is now the real world. With real world consequences.

everdrive•18m ago
>Online is now the real world.

Without most of the benefits of the real world, mind you.

gjsman-1000•13m ago
I don't know what you mean. I don't know in what world you could say half the things that were on BlueSky, post-assassination, without riot police being called and people getting arrested, assuming they were physically present and saying the same things.
jerojero•23m ago
I use Android over iphone precisely because I'm free to install whatever apps I want.

With this planned change my reasons to ditch Android and go to Apple increase dramatically. Why would i want half assed google walled garden when I could get the Apple one?

Sucks for the people who can't afford an Apple device and honestly sucks for all of us who enjoyed installing all kinds of apps on our devices.

lordofgibbons•20m ago
Yeah, this is exactly my reasoning too. And with Google making it harder for OSes like GrapheneOS to run on Pixel devices, my next device will have to be an Apple one. There's nothing left in the Android ecosystem for me.
rs186•15m ago
Same.

Combined with bad security practice from OEMs, preinstalled bloatware, app fragmentation (I love having Samsung "Phone" app and stock phone app at the same time) and customer service (try replacing your phone battery and compare the experience of ubreakifix and Apple store), I don't see a reason to go Android.

(P.S. people who cannot afford the latest iPhone can always purchase a two year old used/"refurbished" phone. It's a solid choice and many people do that. The fact that you can now add Apple Care to 4 year old device makes this more viable.)

wccrawford•4m ago
Yup, same here. I've even talked family members into joining me. If this goes through and locks me out of installing things that aren't officially signed, I'll be done with Android.

At least, the standard version. If Samsung or someone keeps it open, I'd probably move to that.

add-sub-mul-div•3m ago
I could never give Apple another dime, they're the ones responsible for enabling and normalizing this.

And if Android's removal of rights lags 5-10 years behind Apple again in the future, that's a win.

suobset•14m ago
Google, your platform currently does not inspire any privacy. It has no ecosystem going for it (workarounds do not count, I want Apple levels everything-works-together-100%-out-of-the-box). Your Watch and other products have repeatedly been called lukewarm, and the Fitbit integration with Google integration was the last straw that pushed me off your watch platform.

If you want me to buy an iOS clone with no competitive edges, I would rather stick with the real deal. At least Apple has been consistent with their views about what iOS is since day 1.

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