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Athlon 64: How AMD turned the tables on Intel

https://dfarq.homeip.net/athlon-64-how-amd-turned-the-tables-on-intel/
59•giuliomagnifico•1h ago

Comments

txdv•1h ago
I remember my Athlon 64 machine.

The last one to run Windows XP.

nrb•42m ago
Core memories for me were my pc builds for the Athlon Thunderbird and later the Athlon 64 FX-60. What an experience it was to fire those machines up and feel the absolutely gigantic performance improvements.
bombcar•1h ago
Youngsters today don't remember it; x86 was fucking dead according to the press; it really wasn't until Athlon 64 came out (which gave a huge bump to Linux as it was one of the first OSes to fully support it - one of the reasons I went to Gentoo early on was to get that sweet 64 bit compilation!) that everyone started to admit the Itanium was a turd.

The key to the whole thing was that it was a great 32 bit processor; the 64 bit stuff was gravy for many, later.

Apple did something similar with its CPU changes - now three - they only swap when the old software runs better on the new chip even if emulated than it did on the old.

AMD64 was also well thought out; it wasn't just a simple "have two more bytes" slapped on 32 bit. Doubling the number of general purpose registers was noticeable - you took a performance hit going to 64 bit early on because all the memory addresses were wider, but the extra registers usually more than made up for it.

This is also where the NX bit entered.

drob518•52m ago
Itanium wasn’t a turd. It was just not compatible with x86. And that was enough to sink it.
bombcar•49m ago
IIRC it didn't even do great against POWER and other bespoke OS/Chip combos, though it did way better there than generic x86.
philipkglass•45m ago
I used it for numerical simulations and it was very fast there. But on my workstation many common programs like "grep" were slower than on my cheap Athlon machine. (Both were running Red Hat Linux at the time.) I don't know how much of that was a compiler problem and how much was an architecture problem; the Itanium numerical simulation code was built with Intel's own compiler but all the system utilities were built with GNU compilers.
fooker•44m ago
>Itanium wasn’t a turd

It required immense multi-year efforts from compiler teams to get passable performance with Itanium. And passable wasn't good enough.

bombcar•36m ago
Wasn't the only compiler that produced code worth anything for Itanium the paid one from Intel? I seem to recall complaining about it on the GCC lists.
hawflakes•16m ago
I lost track of it but HP, as co-architects, had its own compiler team working on it. I think SGI also had efforts to target ia64 as well. But the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing) didn't really catch on. VLIW would need recompilation on each new chip but EPIC promised it would still run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explicitly_parallel_instructio...

Joel_Mckay•30m ago
The IA-64 architecture had too much granularity of control dropped into software. Thus, reliable compiler designs were much more difficult to build.

It wasn't a bad chip, but like Cell or modern Dojo tiles most people couldn't run it without understanding parallelism and core metastability.

amd64 wasn't initially perfect either, but was accessible for mere mortals. =3

eej71•40m ago
Itanium was mostly a turd because it pushed so many optimization issues onto the compiler.
CoastalCoder•12m ago
IIRC, wasn't part of the issue that compile-time instruction scheduling was a poor match with speculative execution and/or hardware-based branch prediction?

I.e., the compiler had no access to information that's only revealed at runtime?

textlapse•32m ago
I have worked next to an Itanium machine. It sounds like a helicopter - barely able to meet the performance requirements.

We have come a long way from that to arm64 and amd64 as the default.

Joel_Mckay•23m ago
The stripped down ARM 8/9 for AArch64 is good for a lot of use-cases, but most of the vendor specific ASIC advanced features were never enabled for reliability reasons.

ARM is certainly better than before, but could have been much better. =3

cmrdporcupine•27m ago
Itanium was pointless when Alpha existed already and was already getting market penetration in the high end market. Intel played disgusting corporate politics to kill it and then push the ugly failed Itanium to market, only to have to panic back to x86_64 later.

I have no idea how/why Intel got a second life after that, but they did. Which is a shame. A sane market would have punished them and we all would have moved on.

dessimus•7m ago
> I have no idea how/why Intel got a second life after that, but they did.

For the same reason the line "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." exists. Buying AMD at large companies was seen as a gamble that deciders weren't will to make. Even now, if you just call up your account managers at Dell, HP, or Lenovo asking for servers or PCs, they are going to quote you Intel builds unless you specifically ask. I don't think I've ever been asked by my sales reps if I wanted an Intel or AMD CPU. Just how many slots/cores, etc.

hawflakes•21m ago
Itanium was compatible with x86. In fact, it booted into x86 mode. Merced, the first implementation had a part of the chip called the IVE, Intel Value Engine, that implemented x86 very slowly.

You would boot in x86 mode and run some code to switch to ia64 mode.

HP saw the end of the road for their solo efforts on PA-RISC and Intel eyed the higher end market against SPARC, MIPS, POWER, and Alpha (hehe. all those caps) so they banded together to tackle the higher end.

But as AMD proved, you could win by scaling up instead of dropping an all-new architecture.

* worked at HP during the HP-Intel Highly Confidential project.

golddust-gecko•25m ago
100% -- the conventional wisdom was that the x86 architecture was too riddled with legacy and complexity to improve its performance, and was a dead end.

Itanium never met an exotic computer architecture journal article that it didn't try and incorporate. Initially this was viewed as "wow such amazing VLIW magic will obviously dominate" and subsequently as "this complexity makes it hard to write a good compiler for, and the performance benefit just doesn't justify it."

Intel had to respond to AMD with their "x86-64" copy, though it really didn't want to.

Eventually it became obvious that the amd64/x64/x86-64 chips were going to exceed Itanium in performance, and with the massive momentum of legacy on its side and Itanium was toast.

jerf•21m ago
If I am remembering correctly, this was also a good time to be in Linux. Since the Linux world operated on source code rather than binary blobs, it was easier to convert software to run 64-bit native. Non-trivial in an age of C, but still much easier than the commercial world. I had a much more native 64-bit system running a couple of years before it was practical in the Windows world.
wmf•16m ago
Linux for Alpha probably deserves some credit for getting everything 64-bit-ready years before x86-64 came out.
jacquesm•7m ago
Up until Athlon your best bet for a 64 bit system was a DEC Alpha running RedHat. Amazing levels of performance for a manageable amount of money.
ndiddy•29m ago
Fun fact: Bob Colwell (chief architect of the Pentium Pro through Pentium 4) recently revealed that the Pentium 4 had its own 64-bit extension to x86 that would have beaten AMD64 to market by several years, but management forced him to disable it because they were worried that it would cannibalize IA64 sales.

> Intel’s Pentium 4 had our own internal version of x86–64. But you could not use it: we were forced to “fuse it off”, meaning that even though the functionality was in there, it could not be exercised by a user. This was a marketing decision by Intel — they believed, probably rightly, that bringing out a new 64-bit feature in the x86 would be perceived as betting against their own native-64-bit Itanium, and might well severely damage Itanium’s chances. I was told, not once, but twice, that if I “didn’t stop yammering about the need to go 64-bits in x86 I’d be fired on the spot” and was directly ordered to take out that 64-bit stuff.

https://www.quora.com/How-was-AMD-able-to-beat-Intel-in-deli...

wmf•19m ago
It wasn't recent; Yamhill has been known since 2002. A detailed article about this topic just came out: https://computerparkitecture.substack.com/p/the-long-mode-ch...
kstrauser•4m ago
"If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will."

Intel has a strong history of completely mis-reading the market.

bigstrat2003•23m ago
I remember at the time thinking it was really silly for Intel to release a 64-bit processor that broke compatibility, and was very glad AMD kept it. Years later I learned about kernel writing, and I now get why Intel tried to break with the old - the compatibility hacks piled up on x86 are truly awful. But ultimately, customers don't care about that, they just want their stuff to run.
zokier•3m ago
[delayed]
miladyincontrol•20m ago
How AMD turned the tables on Intel? It always felt more like a tale of how Intel turned their back on x86.
aurizon•18m ago
How many feet does Intel actually have? It seems as if they have shot themselves in 4 or 5 - is it any wonder they can hardly walk?
wmf•14m ago
When you have 90% market share you can afford to make a lot of mistakes.
zerocrates•5m ago
I was one of those weird users who used the 64-bit version of Windows XP, with what I'm pretty sure was an Athlon 64 X2, both the first 64-bit chip and first dual-core one that I had.

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