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Why Warm Countries Are Poorer

https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/mountains
30•baristaGeek•1h ago

Comments

TheCleric•1h ago
I see a lot of correlation but not a lot of causation.
DaveZale•1h ago
Agree, there is some truth in these arguments, but, historically speaking, social, religious, legal frameworks that evolved in northern climes over a few thousand years may play important roles in economic success. And it was never a completely linear upward progression, with significant setbacks for sometimes long periods, and nothing about the future is guaranteed.

Last night I watched several Rick Steves episodes about European art, and how it reflected society and culture over time. The Greeks set up the rationality in government, the Romans excelled at conquest and building infrastructure, while providing a good life, for centuries, and that progressed to other systems as Rome fell. So northern cultures have their ups and downs, but the past yields plenty of lesson in terms of engineering of government and infrastructure

darth_avocado•49m ago
> historically speaking, social, religious, legal frameworks that evolved in northern climes over a few thousand years may play important roles in economic success.

Those frameworks have evolved elsewhere in the world independently as well in a similar fashion. What you’re looking at is a specific time in history where due to a variety of reasons, some places are doing well relative to others. If you look at history across 2000 years, you’ll find that different parts of the world were doing better at different times.

tomalbrc•1h ago
The "correlation" listed seems very odd: > Diseases: > The warmer the country is, the poorer it is, and the unhealthier it is.
bbor•1h ago
This is an absurd article, I’m sorry. To accept the explanation of “brown people are just worse” as possible, but to throw out “colonialism shaped the modern world” because Australia is rich is so clearly biased that it reads like a strawman. Also, are they aware that Australia is quite hot…?

Putting that huge issue aside for more fundamental ones: certainly climate impacts culture in the aggregate to some extent, but the overall framing here is way too overconfident. There’s about a million confounding variables when assessing different societies over large time scales, the largest of which are A) technology and B) to what extent GDP is even a primary goal. Asking if heat makes societies poorer is like asking if rivers make societies richer: it depends!

phyzix5761•58m ago
I think I missed it but where do they say "brown people are just worse"?
mzajc•56m ago
They hint at it:

> 5. Race

> This theory is extremely contested, and I haven’t independently assessed it, so I won’t go into any detail, but for sake of completeness we must add the hypothesis that race also has influence in economic development. I might eventually make an independent assessment of the claim.

If you haven't "independently assessed" it and have zero details to add, please leave it out until you do!

happytoexplain•48m ago
Why? There's no reason to inject hostility like this. It's not as if the author said, "I suspect brown people are stupid, but I won't make any formal claims until I perform an assessment."
tbrownaw•23m ago
> If you haven't "independently assessed" it and have zero details to add, please leave it out until you do!

Sounds like a "no I did not forget this" marker.

See also, "this page intentionally left blank".

paulorlando•49m ago
This being a snapshot in time, how would the claim change if we looked at the past? Do the explanations fade if you look back in history at empires in hot parts of the world, like the Egyptian, Mauryan, Persian, Akkadian, Mesopotamian, Carthaginian, Songhain, Incan, Aztec, Mayan...
AnotherGoodName•30m ago
I think the fact that the majority of the 'rich' nations population consisting of Europe and North America (Japan/SK/AU/NZ are a smaller population base) speaks to this.

You could just ask why those 2 regions are so rich right now and the answer i think has much to do with military dominance starting a few hundred years back.

The climate line seems to be artificially pushed by "Look the southern hemisphere below latitude -40 is as wealthy as europe/NA above latitude 40". There's literally <2million people below latitude -40... (that's the top of Tasmania, part of NZ and patagonia for reference) How can they suggest what they are suggesting without consideration of this? As in the data of "oh look southern hemisphere is rich near the poles too" is just based on a handful of people living there.

abdullahkhalids•21m ago
Don't worry. In 20 years, people with no knowledge of history will be writing articles asking why are the richest countries those with some random fact that unites China and India.

Human societies, viewed as systems, have changes occurring over decades and centuries. Taking short snapshots will not fool you about the nature of these systems.

FridayoLeary•48m ago
what i was told in school iirc was a combination of climate plus europe being far more populated and dynamic. The environment and competition forced them to innovate much more and there was much more cultural exchange going on. The next obvious step was expanding the search for resources etc etc.

It's obvious that the roman empire contributed a huge amount towards the process of European progress. Come to think of it Europe has kind of been dominant over the middle east since Alexander the great.

crooked-v•30m ago
And of course there's the role there of the Mediterranean in massively enabling trade between places of various resources and needs, while directly connecting to global oceans on top of that.
woooooo•8m ago
Europe spent like a thousand years losing Christian territory to the Arabs/Turks, at one point they pushed from Spain into France. Istanbul is called Istanbul and not Constantinople, no Greek royalty in Egypt, etc etc.

From the fall of Rome until colonization and industrialization got rolling they were definitely not dominant.

reese_john•32m ago
Lee Kuan Yew on what made Singapore successful:

  “Air conditioning. … It changed the nature of civilization by making development possible in the tropics.
  Without air conditioning you can work only in the cool early-morning hours or at dusk. The first thing I did upon becoming prime minister was to install air conditioners in buildings where the civil service worked. This was key to public efficiency.”
matheusmoreira•19m ago
Popular joke here in Brazil: Why don't we have mafias? Too hot to wear suits.
yen223•6m ago
As someone who grew up in a tropical country and has moved to a temperate one, this cannot be understated.

It is significantly easier to walk in 20C, 50% humidity than to walk the same distance in 28C, 100% humidity. Every physical action just feels easier in a temperate climate than in a tropical one.

cies•24m ago
I have a theory not listed here: harsh winters make a people calculative (and calculative people make more money).

If you can survive all year sleeping under a tree, you eventually end up with a different gene pool than in a place where you need to calculate how much grain you need to store for winter in order to feed you family.

Harsh winters kill people that cannot plan ahead. This, over time, changes the gene pool and the attitude toward planning.

dayjaby•14m ago
Not sure why this is being downvoted. Alexander von Humboldt did a similar statement in his "Buch der Begegnungen" where he compares and finds cultures from tropical areas to be more "lazy" as all the fruits just grow on their own without any human involved.
d_sem•13m ago
You're over indexing on the genetics impacts of these things over the cultural impacts.
greazy•4m ago
It sounds like you haven't lived in the tropics. The heat exerts a different force than cold winters. Sure there's plenty of water and food (if you can find it), but where and how you sleep matters. For example in a rain forest you never sleep under a tree because they will randomly fall on you.

Weather can be chaotic and highly destructive and like winters, cyclone season will hit hard. Rain all the time sounds lovely until it rots everything. Food expires far quicker.

The tropics also gave rise to the best sea faring people; the polynesians. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation

The gene pool comment is ignorance combined with misinformation. Our ancestors interbred with a number of hominins across the world and then with each other. Especially across asia-europe, everyone banged each other and other hominins.

Gualdrapo•4m ago
As a colombian I feel like in current times that situation is pretty much the opposite - though I feel like most people here are "hot blooded", i.e. they're temperamental on many times they do not give critical thinking or learning stuff any value and take decisions on the moment.

On the other hand I reckon this feeling is happening a lot in "richer" countries. I just feel like though we gain political independence from Spain we are yet to gain "economical" independence. Add corruption and the same people ruling the country for more than 200 years and you got the current situation where kids in the northest part of the country were starving to death and at the same time some daddy's boys ask on r/Colombia or r/Bogota why the whole country does not have Netflix.

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8•ryan_j_naughton•1h ago•0 comments

Why Warm Countries Are Poorer

https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/mountains
33•baristaGeek•1h ago•24 comments