frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Asked to do something illegal at work? Here's what these software engineers did

https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/asked-to-do-something-illegal-at-work/
52•bschne•1h ago

Comments

Rygian•48m ago
> If you take one lesson from this, it’s that you can always say no.

I fully understand why this is true, but it seems to ignore any retaliative measures that the management could take against the person who says no.

With the benefit of hindsight, any such retaliation would be weaker than ending up in an orange suit. But the person has to find the guts to say "no" without that hindsight.

OskarS•40m ago
I would argue that you have a moral and ethical responsibility to say no when your manager asks you to do something illegal, even if it does cost you your job. The law is the law, and there is no excuse for breaking it. Your manager is certainly culpable, but if you act against the law, you are culpable as well.

The exception is if you fear literal physical violence against you or others, or are being blackmailed or something, then of course you are being coerced and have no choice. But "losing your job" does not rise to that kind of coercion, in my opinion.

Not saying it's easy, it's a horrible situation to be put in and I have huge amounts of sympathy for a person who has to experience this. No one is perfect and act with faultless ethics at all times. But hard or not, it is your duty as a citizen not to violate the law.

overscore•30m ago
> I would argue that you have a moral and ethical responsibility to say no when your manager asks you to do something illegal, even if it does cost you your job.

When your access to food, housing, heating and healthcare for your family are dependent on your income, you may find yourself facing very difficult decisions. Most parents will risk whatever legal ramifications to care for their kids and that's inherent moral and ethical, even if the downstream outcome is not. That is because it is the socioeconomic system rather than the individual who is acting immorally.

> The law is the law, and there is no excuse for breaking it.

This is an infantile view. The law is a framework and there are lots of circumstances where breaking it is not only excusable, it's the only moral action.

philipallstar•26m ago
> When your access to food, housing, heating and healthcare for your family are dependent on your income, you may find yourself facing very difficult decisions

This is the time when your ethics are tested. Anyone can do the right thing when they're getting paid for it.

cess11•21m ago
Right, saying outright that Thoreau was wrong and also that pretty much every famous person who took him to heart was wrong too is a rather strong position to take and likely very, very hard to defend.

Or, for a more obscure example, that Antigone should just have said 'yes daddy' and left it at that with the play ending somewhere in the initial conversation with Ismene.

barney54•18m ago
It is not moral to break the law in the furtherance of fraud. That’s the point.
OskarS•15m ago
We're not talking about living in a totalitarian state and breaking the law by aiding the resistance here. The cases in the article is like committing financial fraud or faking customer data. And then, yeah, I do think there is no excuse for going along with it, you have a duty as a member of society not to do such things, even if it costs your your job. It's not easy, and as I said I have enormous sympathy for a person in this position, but there is a clear right thing to do, and you have an obligation to act accordingly.
skeeter2020•3m ago
To get rich at your software startup is not one of the situations where you have a moral obligation to break the law. None of these people were stealing bread from the rich to feed their children.
pydry•13m ago
This is why whistleblower laws need to be stronger (e.g. retaliation means automatic jailtime even if the whistle was wrongly blown) and rewards need to be larger.
sltr•44m ago
Software developers should sign a code of ethics, like other professions do and then cite it when asked to do unscrupulous things. This would work for activities that aren't illegal but still unethical, like defaulting user privacy choices to open/public. Citing professional organizations like ACM or IEEE would deter retaliation.
pcthrowaway•39m ago
The code of ethics would need to be absolute, enforceable, unambiguous (without lawyers to interpret), and universal to really eliminate these activities.
baobun•17m ago
If your found in violation by DAO jury vote, you will be blocked from all private torrent trackers and usenet groups (we just have to make sure all of them mods are onboard mkay), with threat of ban for repeat offenders.

You may also find your support tickets everywhere languishing and x months of CAPTCHA-hell on every website.

Feeling deterred enough?

mc3301•26m ago
The author talks alot about this is this book: https://www.ruinedby.design/
comrade1234•39m ago
I was working with someone on a large government project. At the beginning I told him that we cannot pad our hours at the end of the year to run the contract out and then make up for it with extra hours in the next year like we do with business clients because it is illegal and further because it's a $1M+ contract could lead to prison.

Of course I found out that he was going into our billing software and adding hours to me. I had to talk to a lawyer and he recommended I report it to the gao. I compromised by quitting and reporting it to the liaison on the project (a professor). It was very stressful because if I hadn't reported it he could say that I reported those hours, not him, and I could have ended up in prison.

I think the liaison just buried it in the end.

potato3732842•23m ago
You had record of your correspondance with the lawyer. All you had to do was report it to the liaison and keep punching the clock. Unless you were getting paid more because of the overages the enforcers dgaf about you.
comrade1234•22m ago
There were other issues... this was the final straw.
exasperaited•32m ago
I have promised to resign (and fully would have) when asked to implement something that would put customer security and privacy at risk, when such concerns were in their infancy; more than half a lifetime ago but in the dot com era when I had actual value. Our client, a very large organisation, became aware I had an ethical concern my own bosses didn’t share, listened to me and changed their policies to eliminate my concern.

People who work in the Valley for fifty, a hundred times more than the poorest in their own country often do not seem to feel the same way anymore.

This is not a question of abstract ethics, but a question of simple professional integrity. If the thing is bad and risks harms, you don’t do it.

It’s part of why I work for myself now; it’s not difficult to spot people who do not have a strong sense of ethics and simply not work for them. I work in a couple of fields where there are many non-ethical players, and can do so with a clear conscience.

cess11•16m ago
This is good advice not only for people who encounter fraud, but also those whose employers are profiting from war crimes and the like.
n4r9•2m ago
Another recent classic case of this is the revelations that Uber were targeting law enforcement based on user behaviour, and refusing to offer them rides in areas where they were breaking regulations. I mentioned this at some point last year, and someone replied saying that they'd enthusiastically volunteer to take part in that project (assuming no personal risk). People's ethics are not always what you'd expect (or hope).

Tutankhamun's Meteoric Iron Dagger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_meteoric_iron_dagger
1•kristianp•22s ago•0 comments

Who Watches the Watch Piece

https://medium.com/luminasticity/who-watches-the-watch-piece-c0b0a9b5cf62
1•bryanrasmussen•1m ago•0 comments

Let's Build the Cinemas of the Future

https://github.com/oitkenmen/kinnow
1•nicktoa•5m ago•1 comments

Implementing a Fast Tensor Core Matmul on the Ada Architecture

https://www.spatters.ca/mma-matmul
1•skidrow•7m ago•0 comments

Intel in early talks to add AMD as foundry customer

https://www.semafor.com/article/10/01/2025/intel-amd-foundry-customer-deal
2•scrlk•7m ago•0 comments

A 4k-year-old spatial pattern of termite mounds

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(18)31287-9
1•Anon84•11m ago•0 comments

NESH: An app to help you work out what to wear running and cycling

https://nesh.life/
1•Tomliptrot•14m ago•1 comments

Photo Prompt

https://photoprompt.com/
1•easytube•21m ago•0 comments

Tiny Reagent-compatible UIs with no React

https://chr15m.github.io/eucalypt/
1•Borkdude•22m ago•0 comments

How a program runs on a cpu

https://cpu.land/
1•EyeRunnMan•25m ago•0 comments

Vibecoded Accessibility Tools

https://old.reddit.com/r/vibecoding/comments/1nvluhs/my_brother_just_sent_his_first_text_everthan...
1•razodactyl•25m ago•0 comments

Trixie – the new version of Raspberry Pi OS

https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/trixie-the-new-version-of-raspberry-pi-os/
2•sohkamyung•26m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Persify–AI-powered personalization order workflow for marketplace

https://persify.io
1•customall•29m ago•0 comments

AI Agents from First Principles

https://goyalpramod.github.io/blogs/AI_agents_from_first_principles/
1•Anon84•35m ago•0 comments

ChatGPT revived my dead father

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2025/09/dead-relative-chatbot/684393/
1•FinnLobsien•36m ago•0 comments

The Arc spacecraft: designed to deliver cargo anywhere in an hour

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/10/meet-the-arc-spacecraft-it-aims-to-deliver-cargo-anywhere-i...
1•WastedCucumber•38m ago•0 comments

Greg Kroah-Hartman explains the Cyber Resilience Act for open source developers

https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/30/cyber_reiliance_act_opinion_column/
1•CrankyBear•40m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Gooey – Opinionated Go WebASM Framework

https://github.com/cookiengineer/gooey
2•cookiengineer•42m ago•0 comments

CISA warns of critical Linux Sudo flaw exploited in attacks

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/cisa-warns-of-critical-linux-sudo-flaw-exploited-i...
3•transpute•47m ago•1 comments

Show HN: OS Library for Conditional Gaussian Mixture Modelling in Python

1•sitmo•48m ago•1 comments

Where's the Shovelware? Why AI Coding Claims Don't Add Up

https://www.learnui.design/blog/wheres-the-ai-design-renaissance.html
1•lelanthran•52m ago•0 comments

The Linux kernel just got some important upgrades – here's what's new in 6.17

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-linux-kernel-just-got-some-important-upgrades-heres-whats-new-i...
2•CrankyBear•53m ago•1 comments

WiFi Can See You

https://coffee.link/your-wifi-can-see-you/
2•PhilKunz•55m ago•0 comments

New UI for Emacs' org-social.el

https://activity.andros.dev/@andros/statuses/01K6FGMCRVYKRYN116PW14TK2B
1•tanrax•58m ago•0 comments

How Israeli actions caused famine, visualized

https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/02/middleeast/gaza-famine-causes-vis-intl
7•nashashmi•59m ago•0 comments

Elon Musk urges parents to cancel Netflix over 'transgender woke agenda'

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-urges-parents-cancel-144021714.html
4•mgh2•1h ago•6 comments

Agent can run rm -rf $HOME/ without any warning

https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/37343
1•asp1•1h ago•0 comments

MakeSprite – generate game sprites with OpenAI

https://makesprite.com/
1•memalign•1h ago•0 comments

After Elon Musk launched the 'Cancel Netflix' Campaign, Netflix shares down 2.2%

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2025/10/01/musk-doubles-down-on-cancel-netflix-calls-ov...
2•thsName•1h ago•1 comments

Immich v2.0.0 – Stable Release

https://github.com/immich-app/immich/releases/tag/v2.0.0
1•sathyabhat•1h ago•0 comments