I'm sorry, but it's like scratching your left ear with your right hand. But for fun, yeah, there are worse things people do. Good luck and have fun. Now here's where most of us will probably be sarcastic, but it's certainly a good way to explore whatever others consider bullshit.
Edit: Pls read the following comment. I would hire him/her because I consider this as a waste of OP skills and he/she would be useful in many more projects.
TLDR; it was not a hate. I am sorry if it sounds so.
I wish OP good luck. It was not sarcastic, I really do, and would like to hire him/her for the skills. But for mankind, this project is almost useless… I apologize if this sounds harsh.
You have a great potential if you can “see code” and have logical thinking deep inside. Not too many people have it.
Elon Musk said once that all those innovations are redeemed by the tremendous efforts of all the engineers. So I appreciate everyone who can do something.
I am not doing anything special but I do inform our community (“mankind”) for 25 years… And I feel useful because I am good at it.
“Mankind” can be a group of other people.
Edit: What people value the most? Compliments. So if you are useful and receive compliments, you will eventually be happy. But ofc you can be happy without being useful, for sure.
Fun fact: I've built something very much like this that powered a number of programs that I sold over the years and it was written when I wasn't nearly as good of a programmer as I am now (take off 30 years of additional experience). If I look at OP's code there are a whole raft of nitpicks but there isn't anything immediately and obviously wrong with it and just speaking for myself, that is surprising because most people's C code is - and I'm being generous here - absolutely terrible. This has potential, but I'd have to really dig in to see how solid it is and I don't have time for that right now, but I've seen far worse code than this.
- I've done CSS frameworks that replicate most of bootstrap that I use.
- I've made client-side reactive web-components (kind of) that almost replaced the parts of react that I like.
- I've built bespoke HTTP servers countless times since the VB6 days.
- And I've written my own MVC engines probably a half dozen times, just to learn a new language or library.
All of that to say, it isn't web devs who are threatened, it is developers who don't want to learn the underlying technologies that power the libraries and frameworks they use.
I actually see no fault in being that way. I've know tons of decent-to-good developers that have no desire to understand HTTP or Vanilla JavaScript, and they still do great work tying systems together. It's all about the kind of learner you are. Do you want depth, breadth, or a mixture of both (but always lacking in both - aka me).
This was years ago (20 years ago?)
Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should....
It's been a long time since I've used C, so maybe it's using some syntax that I'm unaware of?
IE: What defines "home" that is referenced as an argument to the "appRoute" function, and then passed to the "get" function to set up the "/home" route? Is "home" defined in lavandula.h, or is this really pseudocode?
#define appRoute(name) HttpResponse name(AppContext ctx)The 'appRoute' is a macro that expands to a function signature.
The macro is: '#define appRoute(name) HttpResponse name(AppContext ctx)' and the parameter I passed as 'home' is expanded into the function name. The reason is because all controller function signatures are the same, so just writing 'appRoute' allows the developer to save time writing endpoints!
It is a tradeoff between readability and development speed. And one of the ideas behind the framework is succint and minimal code.
Makes sense, thanks!
#define appRoute(name) HttpResponse name(AppContext ctx)- Web framework : inherently hard to maintain due to communication over evolving standards. Check.
- AI written code where nobody knows howwhatwhenwhy!? Check.
- Written in C. Check.
bwahahahaha!
edit: semi-joking. As I actually like the simplicity of pure C. But the combination of AI written,network-facing and C makes me shudder.
Every agent I know of or use will always say they built "Production ready, secure, fast package for X" if you ask them to build that, but they rarely actually will. It takes enormous time and effort to actually do that, and any first iteration of "production ready" is definitely aspirational until it actually hits the real world and survives. I'm speaking from experience, fwiw.
Still probably I'm going to continue learning golang in most situations, because that's where the money is (i.e. job offers), but I will create a hobby project based on your framework.
--- EDIT ---
> 5 hours ago
Ohh it's fresh. I almost smell the freshly baked buns with my mind
I'd love to hear about your project when you get round to it.
There are some more examples in doc/
Mad props for building this. It's hard and it's fun!
As to other comments in the thread about the "why": why not. For the love of the craft.
I also love the BSD C CGI Postgres stack. I'm just a CRUDmonkey with mostly python skills, so getting to explore low language and memory concepts is a lot of fun for me.
People will whine and moan about how this is not practical, but as embedded devices become more ubiquitous I think a clear value add may actually emerge.
I've been playing with the pico calc, and if I was building something as a "mobile app" for that I would much rather reach for C for my framework code.
Cheers, great work
I've also never seen tests written this way in C. Great work.
C was the first programming language I learned when I was still in middle/high school, raising the family PC out of the grave by installing free software - which I learned was mostly built in C. I never had many options for coursework in compsci until I was in college, where we did data structures and algorithms in C++, so I had a leg up as I'd already understood pointers. :-)
Happy to see C appreciated for what it is, a very clean and nice/simple language if you stay away from some of the nuts and bolts. Of course, the accessibility of the underlying nuts and bolts is one of the reasons for using C, so there's a balance.
Appreciate you saying that!
I'm busy writing some of the most optimized-but-still-portable code that I've ever written and it is very interesting to see how even a slight difference in how you express something can cause a massive difference in execution speed (especially, obviously, in inner loops). Your code is clearly written from what your comfort zone with C is and I'm really impressed by the restraint on display. At the same time, some of the code feels a bit repetitive and would benefit from more universal mechanisms. But that would require more effort and I'm not even sure if that is productive. One part where I see this is in the argument parsing code as well as in the way you handle strings, it is all coded very explicitly, which substantially increases the chance of making a mistake.
Another limitation is that using AI to help you write the code means you don't actually understand what it does, and this in turn may expose you to side effects that you are not able to eliminate because you did not consider them while writing, it is as if someone else gave you that code and asked you to trust them they did not make any mistakes.
Ok I hear this all the time. Are pointers really that hard for so many people to understand? I'm not trying to brag it took me I think like 15 minutes to grok them from learning about them the first time. I'm sure it took me longer to be proficient but I don't get this legendary difficulty aura that seems to surround their existance.
Also yes nice project.
Job app complete projected archived and abandoned in 3...2..1... :). I hope not.
I still feel like this argument could be transferred to nearly any concept in CS though. Abstract enough anywhere and you will always start exceeding the brains working memory.
http.c around line 398, that looks wrong.
I will add it to the backlog of things to do :)
Good job OP. Now if you can add HTML templating, this may become a complete framework :)
Yes it's on the backlog and will be fun to implement :)
As an aside, I don't see any support for parallelization. That's fine for an initial implementation, but web servers do benefit from threading off requests. If you go that route (pun intended) you might consider using something like libuv [2].
[1] https://github.com/ashtonjamesd/lavandula/blob/51d86a284dc7d...
I did intend to implement parallelization as a later feature so it's good to bring it up.
I had such a bad experience with GWT back in the Java days of my life that I've steered clear of any "server" language for web frameworks since. I'd love for that to change though. I definitely will be trying this out.
Thanks for sharing, this looks amazing
I’ve been building out my C standard library replacement in earnest for a little while. If you like this framework, check it out.
Thank you, I'll will implement that :)
* dropping the prefix "test_" * substituting the "_" characters in the function for whitespace * uppercasing the first letter of each word.
So `test_tokenize_simple_model` becomes "Tokenize Simple Model".
Your work is a nice reference, it is neat to see someone else working in this space!
i understand other auth schemes are more complicated, and maybe theres no desire to pull in big libraries. just that if theres no TLS or proper auth, you can also just skip basic auth. its only use would be to trick someone who's not familiar (unlikely with such a repo but not impossible) into a false sense of security.
ofc, not really an issue with the code, and its an excellent base to look into how this stuff works and if you want since its pretty clean and easy to ready, expand upon it. well done! love ppl churning out good ol C projects. respect!
Maybe to have some "basic" auth for an embedded device web interface or something like that? I suppose it's better than nothing. I've devices which prompt for username and password with no TLS either.
Yeah, I know those languages have a the frameworks but nothing really beats understanding something like doing it ground up on your own.
guerrilla•3h ago
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