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I wish SSDs gave you CPU performance style metrics about their activity

https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/tech/SSDWritePerfMetricsWish
37•ingve•2h ago

Comments

jauntywundrkind•1h ago
One of the big innovations of NVMe over SATA was giving us a bunch of separate command queues. It'd be lovely to get some per queue information.

I feel like maybe some of this info is already available we just don't commonly look at it: knowing how deep the queue is, how many commands are outstanding at any given moment is probably a decent start. I haven't spent time digging into blk-mq to see what's available, to understand the hardware dispatch queue (how the kernel represents the many hardware queues available) info. https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.16/block/blk-mq.html

adgjlsfhk1•1h ago
I think a lot of the problem is that the ssd is fast enough and far enough away that by the time you get a response back it's fairly out of date
dleary•32m ago
That’s a separate concern.

Every command that you issue to the ssd returns a response. It would be nice to have a bunch of performance counters that tell us where the time went with each of the commands we give it.

GPUs have this already.

wmf•6m ago
This was solved in networking by having the device collect a histogram of queue occupancy.
fh973•11m ago
Queues tend to be always full or always empty (see queueing theory). There is no steady state with a half full queue.

For NVMe in particular you will have a hard time filling their queues. Your perceived performance is mostly latency, as there is hardly an application that can submit enough concurrent requests.

andai•1h ago
This reminds me of not too long ago when you could hear the sound of the spinny disk in action, and you'd know if there was an issue (e.g. low on RAM and swapping a lot, or the dreaded Windows search indexer).

You get many of the same problems these days, but they're a bit harder to diagnose. You have to go looking at system monitors to see what's going on. Whereas, if the computer just communicated to you what it was doing, in an ambient way, this stuff would be immediately obvious.

I've heard stories like this where people worked on older computers that were loud, and then you could actually hear what it was doing. If it got stuck in an infinite loop, you'd literally hear it.

That seems like very much a feature to me.

buildbot•1h ago
You can hear some modern GPU/CPUs (well really their power electronics) when they get heavily loaded!

With training runs it makes a little beat and you can tell when it checkpoints because there’s a little skip. Or a GPU drops off the bus…

dataflow•33m ago
> You can hear some modern GPU/CPUs (well really their power electronics) when they get heavily loaded!

I'd hope you hear their fans too...

ssl-3•44m ago
PCs used to be pretty noisy even in the 90s.

The drives were numerous (hard, floppy, tape, optical), and the noises were too loud to avoid using diagnostically. Printers clacked and whooshed (and sometimes moved furniture). Scanners sang songs. Monitors produced clicks and pops and buzzes and sizzles, and the flyback transformer would continuously whine at different frequencies depending on mode. Modems made dialing and shrieking noises. Sound cards were anything but silent; a person could hear noises that varied based on the work the system was doing. And for a long while, CPUs and/or front side bus speeds put a lot of noise right in the middle of the FM dial.

Computing is pretty quiet these days.

mulmen•26m ago
90s? I had all of the listed devices well into the 2010s.
CaptainOfCoit•41m ago
This is coming back now it seems, as the last three GPUs I've had all had coil whine which is distinct per activity. When I'm doing some processing sequentially across 3 different LLMs, I can hear based on the type of coil whine which LLM is currently doing the inference.
otras•23m ago
I remember learning about the complex pumping machines running some of the reservoir pumps in Boston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Waterworks_Museum), where they made such distinct noises when working (and malfunctioning) that an engineer could diagnose the problem by ear.

I sometimes think about what a modern analogy would be for some of the operations work I do — translate a graph of status codes into a steady hum at 440hz for 200s, then cacophonous jolts as the 500s start to arrive? As you mentioned, no perfect analogy as you get farther and farther from moving parts.

antisthenes•7m ago
> You get many of the same problems these days, but they're a bit harder to diagnose.

Luckily, storage also get incredibly cheap, so instead of diagnosing it's easier to just have a full backup of your data, and swap to it in case something goes wrong.

zokier•30m ago
Doesn't nvme have lot of log capabilities, like telemetry log etc?
wmf•7m ago
Consumer NVMe probably doesn't have that. It has SMART which is hard to interpret.
cjensen•12m ago
This is asking too much. The management of trim, reallocation, wear leveling, and so much more is very complex. It's a full software stack hiding behind the abstraction of NVMe. Every manufacturer is running a different stack with different features and tradeoffs. The "stats" the author is asking for would be entirely different between manufacturers, and I doubt there is that much to be gained from peering behind the curtain.
srean•7m ago
I have had a long held, far far simpler wish that has remained out of my reach since ever -- can SMART implementation by vendors be not so half assed.

I have had the wish since the days of spinning disks.

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