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PyTorch Monarch

https://pytorch.org/blog/introducing-pytorch-monarch/
125•jarbus•3h ago

Comments

pjmlp•2h ago
Apparently PyTorch oxidation has started.

> Monarch is split into a Python-based frontend, and a backend implemented in Rust.

Other than that, looks like a quite interesting project.

galangalalgol•59m ago
This is a new project right? Not the oxidation of an existing one.
gaogao•27m ago
Yup, hyperreactor, one of the new crates that's part of it, does some particularly interesting things for efficient parallel distributed channels.
dhrt12327•43m ago
Multiple sources say that it is an experimental framework around PyTorch, not a replacement. People will still get to enjoy a circular graph using std::shared_ptr with memory leaks.

It's a pity they don't do a complete rewrite with a functional language as the driver.

gaogao•30m ago
> It's a pity they don't do a complete rewrite with a functional language as the driver.

It's open source, so seeing such an extension would be quite cool. There's much that could be done with native Rust actors and code that get maybe at what you want, but nothing precludes mixing PyTorch and other backends.

For example, you could wrap a C++ inference engine as part of one of the actors generating data for other actors doing distributed training.

jonapro•2h ago
Beowulf then.
valzam•2h ago
I assume this is similar to Ray?
lairv•1h ago
I'm also curious what's the use case of this over Ray. Tighter integration with PyTorch/tensors abstractions?
porridgeraisin•40m ago
That.

Also, it has RDMA. Last I checked, Ray did not support RDMA.

There are probably other differences as well, but the lack of RDMA immediately splits the world into things you can do with ray and things you cannot do with ray

disattention•1h ago
I had the same thought, especially because of their recent collaboration.

https://pytorch.org/blog/pytorch-foundation-welcomes-ray-to-...

unnah•35m ago
There's also Dask, which can do distributed pandas and numpy operations etc. However it was originally developed for traditional HPC systems and has only limited support for GPU computing. https://www.dask.org/
milancurcic•1h ago
Cool! Essentially Fortran coarrays from 2008.
philipallstar•1h ago
Or Hadoop from 2006? But you don't need to write MapReduce or Fortran, so it's probably far nicer.
alyxya•1h ago
I made my own single controller PyTorch extension [1], though mines doesn't yet support cross node communication. I found it interesting to compare how Monarch makes things performant. I believe Monarch also uses cloudpickle for code to be shared among all nodes, which is probably the only way to performantly have various nodes execute work as that ends up being a one time setup cost. I found the fanning out of sending messages from the single controller to be really interesting, so the controller is unlikely to be the bottleneck besides any synchronous operations.

As far as things that might be a performance loss here, one thing I'm wondering is if custom kernels are supported. I'm also wondering how much granularity of control there is with communication between different actors calling a function. Overall, I really like this project and hope to see it used over multi-controller setups.

[1] https://github.com/alyxya/mycelya-torch

gaogao•34m ago
> As far as things that might be a performance loss here, one thing I'm wondering is if custom kernels are supported

Yeah, you might end up needing some changes to remote worker initialization, but you can generally bake in whatever kernels and other system code you need.

logicchains•1h ago
This seems strictly less powerful than Jax, which comes with a powerful compiler that optimises how cross-node communication is conducted.
gaogao•38m ago
Nah, focusing on a different controller paradigm. Jax is focused on multi-controller SPMD, while this is focused on a single-controller setup. Both have their place, with single-controller being generally easier to reason about, and multi-controller more optimal for certain dataflows. There's also some interesting mixes of the two control paradigms.
nothrowaways•1h ago
FB should create a pytorch foundation and set it free before they fuck it up.
gooodvibes•1h ago
https://pytorch.org/foundation/
dkdcio•1h ago
damn that was fast!
porridgeraisin•1h ago
> This lets us avoid single-host bottlenecks, effectively using the whole mesh as a distributed cluster for message forwarding. (Cite scalability numbers here.)

In case someone that can fix this is reading here

chandureddyvari•55m ago
Interesting - this seems to target a different layer than services like Tinker (https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/announcing-tinker/). Monarch provides the infrastructure primitives while Tinker is a managed finetuning service. Could someone build something like Tinker on top of Monarch?
gaogao•45m ago
Yup, there's stuff like https://pytorch.org/blog/introducing-torchforge/ on top of it now
chandureddyvari•19m ago
Nice, so the open source equivalent now exists. Meta basically commoditized Tinker's($12B valuation) value prop by giving away the infra (Monarch) and the RL framework (TorchForge). Will be interesting to see how a managed service competes with free + open source at this layer.

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