2. I would support because I like and use Rust but only if I have guarantees that the money will be spend only on developers who are selected merely by technical contributions and not based on political beliefs, gender, race, etc. And unfortunately from what I’ve heard the Rust community is one of the snowflakiest communities on the internet. I don’t want to fund that.
People who were happy with Rust didn't have same need to criticise Zig in online spaces as Rust is the established player in the C alternatives space. (Though Rust is on the other side when compared to C once you expand the space to "all low level programming languages").
Also for people who don't care about the space at all, Rust has had years of exposure to promote fatigue, while Zig hasn't (yet).
LucidLynx•1h ago
* A programming language simpler than C++...
* That does not change so much accross time (maybe the biggest lie here)...
* With great design changes and adoption (it was before async/await, obviously)...
* Abstracted from big companies (again a lie, as Amazon hires most of the heads of the Rust programming language now)...
* With a great non-political community (actually, this is the biggest lie of all).
To me, it is a mess.
weird_trousers•1h ago
The fact that most well-known Rust crates are becoming huge bloat are becoming a problem to me, which is something that has been critized years again by the community itself.
As an example, I still do not understand why simple HTTP crates require more than 50 to 70 dependencies to execute a simple GET call...
MisterTea•1h ago
This is what you get with package managers.
nixpulvis•1h ago
vacuity•28m ago
steveklabnik•11m ago
Ygg2•6m ago
It's just it's not frequent.
There is very few things that need to be in the standard library. I only ever miss chrono or equivalent not being in std.
steveklabnik•1h ago
LucidLynx•1h ago
For example, I remember talking that with you at the Rust Fest 2017, in Zurich actually, especially about the *very early version* of Async/Await.
It is ok for the community to move on different directions than the first one, and I don't blame any of you for that.
steveklabnik•13m ago
> It is ok for the community to move on different directions than the first one
I agree, I just disagree with your characterization of "the first one." There were differences between the original Rust and what shipped, but almost none of it has to do with what you've said. In 2012-2013, Rust very explicitly changed a lot across time, and now it certainly does not. Async/await drove a lot of that adoption. Rust was always "political", even before 2012.
ratmice•1h ago
I recall the opposite, that the rust language (before the foundation) position was that being apolitical was a political stance. This is not the exact message I remember https://x.com/rustlang/status/1267519582505512960 and also can't realistically cover the entire community at large, as if that even has a single political stance.
johnisgood•1h ago
That made me chuckle because both are quite the behemoths, as I have previously said. If they promised this, it was a lie indeed.
afdbcreid•1h ago
doyougnu•52m ago
ekropotin•51m ago
johnisgood•34m ago
vacuity•27m ago
steveklabnik•10m ago
ekropotin•23m ago
oli-obk•1h ago
01HNNWZ0MV43FF•1h ago
vacuity•26m ago
munificent•1h ago
"Non-political community" is an oxymoron, like "non-aquatic lake". Politics is the verb that communities do.
Certhas•1h ago
I think there is a reasonable argument that the default for a community with technical goals should be to accept social status quo conventions unless they conflict with the communities technical goals. But if the social default is "girls don't code and queers should hide" there is a reasonable counterargument that these conflict with the goal of making the technology (and community) available to everyone.
philipallstar•8m ago
Queers should hide definitely isn't any social default unless the code is exclusively developed in Gaza. "Do what you like but please stick to technical considerations" isn't "you need to hide".
echelon•1h ago
No it's not.
I'm an LGBT person with a trans partner and I find many codes of conduct to be chastising and purposefully finger pointing to conservative people.
A lot of them are basically, "your religious teachings or cultural upbringing aren't welcome here"
I don't agree with religious texts, but that's what you're wagging in their face with some of the CoCs.
Leave it at "don't be an asshole". It's that simple.
The current political climate, I feel, is a direct reaction to this.
A politically neutral space wouldn't permit religious people to harass trans or LGBT people, but it also wouldn't give anyone latitude to throw stones the other way either.
CoCs are "you're not welcome here at all".
Another thing: you always see language and project logos modified to bear the rainbow, trans, and BLM colors. You never see anything supporting Asians, white people, men, or Christians. If you did this, you would be called out as a racist. Which is so ironic.
Let's just get along and work together. Maybe we'll find more agreements amongst ourselves that way instead of trying to divide everyone into camps.
Some progressives are going to get very pissed off at this comment, but I grew up and live in the South. You can (and often must) work with people you don't agree with. It's not impossible to be friends either. You might wind up changing their mind, and they might wind up making you more tolerant as well.
JoshTriplett•46m ago
Life's for too short to force people to do this, and ideally we should make it as feasible as possible for as many people as possible to never have to do this.
pessimizer•32m ago
I like some people. Everybody else I work with if they're willing to work with me. Saying that we all have to agree with each other is basically giving up on the political project entirely, and going back to strongman rulers who organize by demanding conformity. Very relevant in these times.
> we should make it as feasible as possible for as many people as possible to never have to do this.
No, we should make it impossible to avoid so people can't sneak into adulthood without being properly socialized.
abenga•21m ago
JoshTriplett•14m ago
vacuity•2m ago
No matter the person, it's really disappointing that we're still entrenched in the mentalities of tribalism, anti-intellectualism, "if you're not with us, you're against us", "an eye for an eye", "someone hurt me, so I'm going to hurt someone", and so on. And by "person", that includes me.
The Earth politics patch really can't come soon enough. How much do we pay the devs, again?
BoredPositron•7m ago