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Microsoft: We see all the backlash and we know we have a lot to fix in Windows

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-we-see-all-the-backlash-and-we-know-we-have-a-lot-to-fix-in-windows/
26•defrost•2h ago

Comments

aboardRat4•1h ago
Everything was good enough in Windows 7.
vunderba•1h ago
> We care deeply about developers. We know we have work to do on the experience, both on the everyday usability, from inconsistent dialogs to power user experiences.

With respect, that's a load of horse crap. This is NOT why so many of your users are upset. They're angry because you've exhibited a long, deliberate pattern of historical abuse: upgrade-style dark patterns, invasive telemetry, advertisements built into Windows, and outright hostility toward users who want to own their OS rather than the other way around. God damn.

zahlman•1h ago
Describing the situation this way is just part of the pattern.
netsharc•1h ago
Understood, we'll improve the wording when we nag you about buying OneDrive. /MS
redwood•1h ago
You show them too much respect!
charcircuit•1h ago
Those are not real concerns. People upset about those are not upset for a logical reason, so you will never appease those user by updating the operating system.

People will complain about ads, but when you actually take a look what they are complaining about it is not actually an ad. People just hear a complaint and repeat it without any critical thought.

It's better to instead focus on actual tangible problems and pain points that developers and users are hitting.

do_not_redeem•58m ago
> when you actually take a look what they are complaining about it is not actually an ad

https://www.windowslatest.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Sta...

Opera Browser [Promoted]

--

https://www.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/file-explo...

Buy OneDrive for $6.99 a month

--

Do you think these aren't ads?

charcircuit•44m ago
I would consider the first one to be an ad, but you could disable it and it seems to have only rolled out to a small number of users for a short period of time because it's hard to find many instances of this existing. It's certainlynot on my machone. Yet, you'll probably still see people complain about this. The windows team can't remove something they already have.

The second I would not consider an ad, but an upsell.

Hizonner•15m ago
An upsell is a FUCKING AD and has no business existing, period.

Nothing should appear on a user's screen that doesn't add value for what the user is trying to get done. This is really, really simple. If you are Microsoft, and you are thinking about whether something should appear on the screen, you should be thinking "Does this advance the user's goals?". If you are instead thinking "Does this advance Microsoft's goals?", then you are doing it wrong.

The same applies to automagically configuring everything to use the cloud (good for Microsoft, usually bad for the user). And, as a special case of that, requiring the user to use a cloud-based account to log into their own local computer.

bediger4000•56m ago
I doff my hat to you, good sir! Most excellent and subtle sarcasm, of a vintage not seen in these lands in many a long year! Bravo, sir, bravo!
rolph•1h ago
at this point it seems evident, they should step away and let the task be done by capable hands.
aetherspawn•1h ago
Just waiting for macOS to get their act together in the Business space so that Windows can become a gaming only OS.

I know people always say that macOS purposely don’t target business, and things like this, but at this point.. why not? Honestly? They have the best hardware in the world right now. Catering just to personal use (and these lines are getting blurrier each day with WFH) is just inconvenient.

SoftTalker•1h ago
Apple isn’t interested in the corporate desktop. Margins aren’t there.
aetherspawn•1h ago
But the margins are in the cloud stuff (email, iCloud, etc) right?

They just need to make an Apple version of SharePoint and Exchange, and wala.

Now you have a suitable stack for small and medium businesses with simple requirements, like most retail, small lawyers, small accountants, etc

I setup a small business recently and I was able to use a full Apple stack except for Exchange Online Plan 1 (email) and Mosyle (MDM). These are both tech that Apple has (iCloud Mail and Apple Business Manager), it’s just lacking a few critical features.

HumanOstrich•53m ago
What's wala?
gnabgib•50m ago
Probably voilà https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voil%C3%A0
gpm•1h ago
I don't think Windows keeps gaming if it loses corporate. Valve's very successfully created a PC-like linux based console, has been gently pushing linux PCs, and it has a huge amount of power over the gaming industry. Dedicated gaming computers probably mostly follow Valve to linux. Non-dedicated gaming computers are whatever people have - i.e. in your hypothetical macs.
mopsi•1h ago
Windows itself is only a small part of the business ecosystem. The real behemoth is Active Directory and everything that integrates with it. Creating something that powerful, complex and user-configurable is not in Apple's DNA.
aetherspawn•1h ago
If Apple can pull off a workflow where they give you a free online user directory and natively allow people to “login with iCloud for business” on managed devices, they’ve nailed it.

That’s 99% of the way there and fully within their capability.

mopsi•1h ago
The idea that Active Directory is merely a user directory is one of the great misconceptions. Windows Server with AD offers incredible amount of things out of the box, from Windows Deployment Services to capture, manage and deploy PC images over PXE, to Certificate Authority to manage and issue and auto-deploy certificates, to print server, file server, web server, hypervisor, virtual desktops, and a huge number of other features and services, all centrally managed and linked with each other, with a well-established track record of providing backward compatibility for decades. Whatever I set up today, I can expect to still be using in 2045.
Hizonner•9m ago
Whatever you set up today, your users can fear they'll still be using in 2045.
DustinEchoes•1h ago
> We balance what we see in our product feedback systems with what we hear directly

Step 1. Use dark patterns to funnel users into using a product or service they don’t want

Step 2. Watch usage kpis go up

Step 3. “Everyone says they hate this, but look at our kpis! Must just be a vocal minority” Move on to next thing

PebblesHD•1h ago
Possibly too little too late. Even my uninterested family and friends are moving over to MacBooks just due to not enjoying windows 11 or not wanting to upgrade hardware to get a minor OS change. Between that and valve looking to move on the casual / console gaming space with the new steam hardware and devs already being split between macs and linux, they’re going to have a hard time coming back if they fumble this for much longer.
weikju•32m ago
> moving over to MacBooks

Ok but

> not wanting to upgrade hardware to get a minor OS change.

Bit of contradiction both in the immediate “need a whole new machine“ and the well known deprecation of 7 year old Macs wrt new OS releases.

I’m sure it’s still better than Windows though (haven’t used Windows for 2 decades except for occasional short lived business mandates)

the_snooze•1h ago
Windows has strong engineering bones, but the business cancer has long spread throughout. Microsoft has been ratcheting up the extractive practices and disrespecting user agency since at least Windows 11's release in 2021. It's a lost cause as far as I'm concerned.
sublinear•1h ago
Limp wristed and far too little too late
kristianp•1h ago
Re the gimped taskbar, I was pleasantly surprised when trying Mac OS that I could set the taskbar to the side of the screen.
Zeetah•57m ago
The Microsoft response is very disingenuous because if they knew about the situation and let it get to the current situation, then it means they really didn't care. If they didn't know then, they are clueless.

I think the reality is that they are super confused, don't have a vision, and therefore, no strategy. They are just like a marble bouncing in a pachinko machine.

For example, look at the churn on the UI framework - I think they have gone through three or more frameworks in the last few years.

The constant updates are just huge. I don't think on Linux they use anti-virus software. I'm sure it is nice not losing perf to the AV. I think the windows file system throughput for small files is horrid compared to Linux.

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