DNT header. Legally binding. Out of the way of the end user. Unambiguous for enforcement purposes. Probably the end of targeted advertising, but that was always the logical conclusion of GDPR.
However, this bit concerns me:
> This key change is part of a new Digital Package of proposals to simplify the EU’s digital rules, and will initially see cookie prompts change to be a simplified yes or no single-click prompt ahead of the “technological solutions” eventually coming to browsers. Websites will be required to respect cookie choices for at least six months, and the EU also wants website owners to not use cookie banners for “harmless uses” like counting website visits, to lessen the amount of pop-ups.
That implies there will be "harmless tracking" allowed, and it removes choices. The latter might restrict dark patterns, but it might also encourage "allow all cookies or you cannot read the site at all" approaches.
Making it a technological mandate would have made it trivial to circumvent.
This is something which courts should consider more about other things, such as EULA and Terms and Conditions. Same reasons.
corporations have enough money to tie you up in court with lawyers.
I'd expect a situation like Somerset v Stewart. Mansfield clearly didn't want to rule you can't have slavery because that's going to be extremely disruptive to powerful people - so he suggests they settle and then the case goes away and he isn't called to say anything. But Stewart refuses to settle, apparently nobody could convince him that it's in his best interest - so, OK says Mansfield: fiat justitia, ruat cælum (Justice be done though the heavens fall). Somerset walks free.
Are corporations relying on EULAs smart enough to take the L? I guess we'd see.
There is a very clear law that forbids any additional contract terms post the point of sale, so that if you go to a store, purchase a box with software in it and then go home to install it, when it pops up a dialog for you to "agree" on, you can just ignore it, nothing in that is enforceable at all. And no, small print text on the box that says you have to agree to terms in the software does not change anything. But that's not how software is sold anymore.
EULAs in general are not unenforceable, so long as they are presented before the sale. This is precisely why Steam (for example) now gives you the EULA before it lets you buy anything.
Given that ~98% of Internet users couldn't even articulate what javascript does as part of their browsing experience, the exfiltration and reassembling of their PII via meta-data into sellable profiles for targeted auctions is completely beyond their capacity to comprehend or engage with. Thus consent is de facto ungrantable.
The real solution would be to make users pay for the content, but charging for something that users used to get for "free" is also essentially impossible.
Right now why would you spend money on untargeted ads when you have better options.
Targeted ads are always dumb as they tend to push an item that you've looked into before purchasing, but never realize that item has been purchased and you are no longer interested. They never get that the person researched item but has not looked for some time for item. Let's now advertise accessories for that item. If it was a fridge, show stainless cleaning items, for dishwasher, show ads for different detergents or other kitchen related items. It's not hard. For whatever reasons, they can't do targeted well. Targeted doesn't work as advertised.
the problem is a plugin like that would take out entire industries because it would basically end anonymous tracking cookies.
The GDPR is technologically agnostic about tracking. You don't accept, then no tracking either way.
Without consent, this is illegal, so if this is happening someone's gonna get sued and fined.
wat.
fingerprinting and cookiless tracking was a thing before GDPR. And GDPR literally talks about all forms of tracking, not just cookies. One would think you'd read at least something before having an opinion.
Locking up a few people who don't respect their users' privacy would be a much more effective way of achieving actual results. AFAIK no big adtech or data brokers have been punished in any way.
I'm a big fan of personal accountability in the corporate world.
They are proudly removing the annoyance they mandated 7 tears ago.
Do we have to congratulate them?
Curious how no one blames the industry which just needs to store your precise geolocation data for 12 years: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541
GDPR itself doesn't require consent for functional cookies. For example, Apple.com does not have a cookie consent box _at all_.
On tracking specifically, I feel there are at least two levels. One that happens in-browser by third party companies. These are your classic advertisements. The other is more first-party backend-heavy. These would be your local grocery store using your purchase history linked to your membership card and using that data to create analytics and targeted ads etc.
So creating a browser setting would likely not toggle all tracking away, just the ones that are "annoying" while browsing.
Things like "precise location information stored for 12 years": https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1817122117093056541
Europe literally said: we're not going to force specific tech decisions on you. All we ask is to let people opt-in if they want to be tracked. What we got is "we care about your privacy, we're sending all your data to 15000 partners" from the industry.
To people crying "but this should've been mandated as a browser setting": Which world's largest advertising company has dominating browser marketshare and subsumes all web standards committees? What exactly prevented that company to come up with a browser settimg that isn't "we sell you data by default and use dark patterns to trick you to agree" https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1664682689591377923?
Our industry is shit, and we blame governments for regulations that ... assume that industries shouldn't be shit. There's literally no need for EU to regulate browser settings. And yet here we are.
Sadly, this is mostly a matter of not enforcing the GDPR enough. Things such as "data minimization" and the erosion of "technically necessary" already should protect us. Instead the Business Community chose malicious compliance on a vast scale and the data protection agencies did nothing.
Step 1: force websites to add an opt-out flow for privacy-minded users.
Step 2: websites don't complain too much because they can implement it in obnoxious and dark-pattern-laden ways, so that few users actually opt-out.
Step 3: now that websites have proven there's no technical barrier and the flows are already implemented, slowly retire unnecessary user tracking and data sharing.
I'd be surprised if this was planned ahead of time, but it's not a bad strategy.
So the devil is in the details. The best option I think isn't a secret setting in a browser, but a standardized consent dialog. Basically the sites communicate to the browser a standardized data format for consent. Then the browser shows that query in a popup that looks the same for every site. That means 1) the sites no longer have a chance to do dark patterns 2) it's less confusing for end users since the UX is always the same 3) it allows users to check a "Automatically reject for all sites". The site should not know whether the user has auto-rejected this, or manually rejected it. There should be no option to automatically consent for all sites (Can't have that). So the only ergonomic choice is to set it to auto reject.
Having this "use this choice (reject) for all sites" is the really important part here. Because it means that ALL users of ALL browsers will quickly see this choice, so in short order a huge chunk of users will have made this permanent rejection choice.
We know exactly how. Here's Google presenting "more private web". If you click "yes, I'm in", all the tracking options will be turned on: https://x.com/dmitriid/status/1664682689591377923
And of course HN (and the industry at large, and journalists) will blame it on "clueless bureaucrats writing regulations"
* Let websites do whatever they want with cookies/local storage.
* Let browsers delete them as often as they want.
* Make other kinds of fingerprinting illegal.
Speeding is illegal. Controlled substances are illegal. Murder is illegal. Embezzlement is illegal. Driving in a school zone while using a mobile device is illegal.
Has the legality stopped any of it?
Don't fucking rush, you useless bureaucrats.
"A mix of European legislation has resulted in cookie notices that use dark patterns to nudge people into accepting online tracking. And regulators aren’t taking strong action"
Wired, 20/5/2020:
Klaster_1•57m ago
Personally, I find this a move in the wrong direction where hostile behavior by websites is normalized and hidden. Cookie banners show web site true colors. When someone asks me to share data with a thousand of "partners", I leave.
moritzwarhier•41m ago
Fingerprints can be shared with third parties without cookies, and while I know that the so-called "cookie law" is not really just about cookies, this is where the deception begins.
For some reason, I think it's easier to force websites to list everyone they share data with, than to force them to comply with an invisible preference that says "don't share data".
It even sounds as if this could be a trojan horse to dismantle parts of the GDPR altogether (see the DNT references in this thread...), and I happen to think that by and large, GDPR is good.
thinkingtoilet•30m ago
dylan604•17m ago