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The Banished Bottom of the Housing Market

https://www.ryanpuzycki.com/p/the-banished-bottom-of-the-housing
69•barry-cotter•1h ago

Comments

jmclnx•45m ago
That is the sad thing, in the City I grew up in, we had a few large "one room" rental buildings were people shared a bathroom that were rather cheap. But those started disappearing in the late 90s. Now, none are left :(

I can still picture one building that had probably 100 rooms. I can see a few men leaning out their window smoking.

That is a shame they are gone, seems no one down on their luck has a way to rebuild their life these days.

BoiledCabbage•40m ago
Boarding house likely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boarding_house

manithree•29m ago
Yeah, I feel so much safer now that the state has protected me from the Y./s
iso1631•12m ago
These are in the UK as HMOs and widely used, and are known for a lot of abuse by landlords. They have stemmed part of the population problem but they still rise to massive costs. Even 20 years ago I knew the bottom of the bracket were not just sharing those one rooms, but even time-sharing beds - you'd have 4 people sharing a room with 3 beds in.
taeric•40m ago
This is one that many arguing for more building also argue against. It is popular to talk about how we can make it so that people can afford a "starter home," not so that people have a cheap place to live.
giantg2•22m ago
There is no "cheap place to live" due to property taxes in most areas.
taeric•13m ago
I mean... this article discusses how this used to be done? It winds up looking a lot like dormitories at schools.
acyou•40m ago
But if we own real estate, we see the limitation and destruction of housing stock as value creation benefiting own personal assets. From that perspective, reducing this sort of low cost housing makes perfect sense.

Generations of young people have embraced this by joining em, not beating them, but this is becoming more and more difficult. It's unclear what prevents any one municipality from going vertical with young people buying, rezoning and building, I think it's related to the lack of income opportunities in some areas, as well as the built in and entrenched voter base. But as soon as any group gets in, they are pulling up the ladder, that's always going to be the case.

schmidtleonard•27m ago
1000%. The good solution is Georgism (perhaps with rolling leases, which are hard to manipulate, rather than LVT, which is easy to manipulate) but obviously everyone who bought into the ponzi will fight you tooth and nail so probably the best we can hope for is to slap the Nth bandaid on the problem with some NIMBY busting.
hrimfaxi•39m ago
When my father came to this country he lived in an SRO while working in restaurants in New York City. That gave him the start he needed to eventually grow a family of 6 that had the opportunity to experience the American dream. The decline of SROs (and IMO mixed use residential like where the owner of a deli lives on top of it) has really pulled the out the bottom rungs of the ladder making it harder to get a footing.
tidbits•9m ago
[delayed]
jeffbee•23m ago
Something that isn't well-known in the popular discourse is that single-occupancy homes are the main thing that we lack. If you go to a city meeting, you will hear endless talking about how we need more "family-sized" homes. This is mostly repeated by senior citizens who have no idea what they are talking about because the last time they participated in the housing market was when Gerald Ford was new and exciting. What we actually lack is studios or 1-bedroom apartments. We have way too many 3 and 4-bedroom homes given our current households, and we are lacking, nationally, tens of millions of small homes for singles and couples without children.
CalRobert•7m ago
When I lived in Ireland it was full of people moaning about “family homes” but then they build nothing but 3bed 2 bath semi d’s only to watch them get filled by young roommates. Who would have preferred their own flat.
helle253•21m ago
I want them to come back, but isn't at least some of the problem with SRO's tenant's rights laws?

It's hard (or at least, unattractive) to run a flophouse if you cannot easily + risklessly kick highly disruptive individuals out.

Aurornis•20m ago
The article paints a very friendly picture of SROs but dismisses problems as unwarranted moral panic.

However, I don’t get the impression that this is a balanced look at the problems facing SROs in modern times. The article barely touches on important details like the relocation of low-wage jobs away from the SRO locations or the rising amount of mental illness collected within such arrangements:

> In the 1970s, states emptied mental hospitals without funding alternatives, pushing thousands of people with serious needs into cheap downtown hotels unequipped to support them. What was left of the SRO system became America’s accidental asylum network—the last rung of shelter for those the state had abandoned.

I think low cost communal living arrangements with shared kitchens and more are much easier in theory than in practice. Especially today as norms have changed. When I talk to college students the topic of roommate conflict or debates about keeping common areas clean are frequent topics, and this is among friends who chose to live with each other. I can’t imagine what it would look like today with a communal kitchen shared by strangers paying $231 inflation-adjusted dollars per month to be there.

Then there’s the problem of widespread drug use. The availability and also the strength of street drugs is an extreme problem right now. Combine this with seemingly absent enforcement in some cities and I have no idea how you’d expect communal living low-cost SROs to not become the primary destination for people with drug problems.

oluwie•8m ago
WeLive/WeWork used to do this before the CEO fiasco. They operated a shared living space for working professionals. It wasn’t $231/mo but it was a great way for younger professionals to get their foot in the door living and working in the city.
kagakuninja•5m ago
A friend of mine spent some time living in homeless shelters. Even having one room mate was a problem at times, as many of the people there have mental issues (my friend included).

We need tiers of low cost housing. Some people could make a communal space work, they would need to be able to vote to kick people out. People who are difficult to deal with need their own place, maybe a less dystopian form of mental institute. More like a dorm with mental services and security.

hamdingers•5m ago
What is your proposed alternative? If the options are "people have conflict over who cleans the kitchen" and "rampant street misery" the decision is obvious, at least to me.

Drug use and mental health are also problems that need to be addressed, but you cannot cure someone of their issues while they're sleeping on the street. Unlike shared apartments, homeless shelters, or the street, SROs provide each resident with a private room and a locking door. If those were the four options I could afford, I would choose the SRO every time.

aorloff•1m ago
> Then there’s the problem of widespread drug use. The availability and also the strength of street drugs is an extreme problem right now.

In 1875 San Francisco adopted an ordinance banning opium dens. A little history might provide some perspective.

renewiltord•18m ago
These kinds of housing are not compatible with current tenant laws. In order to cover this zone of the market you need the ability to boot bad actors. If you can’t do that, you get massive adverse selection as your decent but poor people leave and you are left with the bad poor. Eventually you get this Dead Sea Effect where your stuff is all busted.

All landlords know this, which is why the pod living people are pretty selective about only getting techies.

cpfohl•13m ago
I'm pretty sure the Y in my city (Beverly, MA) actually still has SROs. It certainly needs more options like this...
cpfohl•11m ago
Yep. But it's twice as expensive as the ones mentioned in the article.

https://www.northshoreymca.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/2...

cyberax•9m ago
Yeah. Urbanism death spiral.

Why have an SRO when a shared bunk bed should be enough? That's the future of this approach.

oluwie•5m ago
Beats living on the streets if that’s the only thing you can afford.

Like the article said, there’s fine hotels for some and some truly terrible ones for others. Still beats being homeless. Also, just because something isn’t perfect and has its flaws, doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile.

encoderer•7m ago
SROs do not seem compatible with modern tenants rights.

It doesn’t work if it takes you 6 months to evict a sociopath.

astroflection•3m ago
> The people we now call “chronically homeless” were once simply low-income tenants, housed by the private market in cheap rooms rather than by public programs. Once that market was dismantled, the result was predictable: the homelessness wave of the late 1970s and 1980s followed directly from the destruction of SROs. Today’s crisis—nearly 800,000 unhoused people in 2024—is the long tail of that loss, compounded by decades of underbuilding in expensive cities and soaring rents. As one advocate put it, “The people you see sleeping under bridges used to be valued members of the housing market. They aren’t anymore.”

You don't have to sacrifice your brand to get attention

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