frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

How to Short the Bubbliest Firms

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/11/26/how-to-short-the-bubbliest-firms
36•1vuio0pswjnm7•2mo ago

Comments

sschnei8•2mo ago
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
bequanna•2mo ago
Said another way: “being too early is the same as being wrong”
fhrjfjfnd•2mo ago
Your quote is something that AI mania speculators often like to reassure themselves with, but consider the fact that it took 17 years for the NASDAQ to recover from the dotcom bubble when adjusting for inflation. What's being early by a year or two when the consequences take decades to heal over?
wmf•2mo ago
If you short a bubble before it goes vertical you lose everything.
fhrjfjfnd•2mo ago
See the other posts in this thread discussing Nassim Taleb's strategy of small bets spread over time with highly asymmetric rewards. You can afford to lose it all on small bets nine times in a row, if on the tenth bet you achieve a 100x payout.
the_gipsy•2mo ago
Yea but where can I play that kind of game?
CamperBob2•2mo ago
Just get a job as a principal in a VC firm. Upskill or gtfo
pyvpx•2mo ago
Derivatives! more popularly known as options (“calls” and “puts”)
loeg•2mo ago
The Nasdaq 17 year figure is only true from the peakiest peak of ~4800 in March 2000. Two years earlier, in March 1998, it was at 1750. It had hit 1750 again by August 2023.

All this to say... shorting 1-2 years early doesn't work. You don't have the patience or capital to actually maintain a short position for two years while the market goes from 1750 to 4800. You can cheaply sit out in cash, if you want, but that's not a short position. And the S&P500 hasn't seen the kind of 300% run-up over an 18 month period that Nasdaq did in the dotcom boom.

loeg•2mo ago
typo: by August 2003, of course.
kingstnap•2mo ago
You are misunderstanding the quote.

If you want to sell all your tech stocks because you think that it's irrational then take your neutral position. You won't profit from stonks going up but you won't get anything from them going down either. You've isolated yourself from them.

What the quote is advising against isn't neutral positions or pulling out early during an upturn. It's about trying to time downturns.

If you want to profit from a stock going down, you need to hold inverses like shorts or selling call options / buying puts. These inverses are always short term positions, there is no such thing as a cheap long term asset that profits when stocks go down.

Basically if you want to profit from a predicted downturns, becuase you think some asset is irrationally overvalued, then you don't just need to be right, you need to be right and time it. Because it doesn't take long before you go bankrupt holding these sorts of inverses. Aka market stays irrational longer than you can solvently hold these risky positions.

The 17 year recovery time literally has nothing to do with this btw. It's all about short term.

cal_dent•2mo ago
I’d change to “can be the same as being wrong” and agree. All these people out there thinking their being oh so clever with bubble this short that etc. Everyone knows.

One of the idiosyncrasies of modern human society is that we’re pretty good at knowing how things we create or initiate can go wrong, particularly with the economy. We’re just not great at perfectly understanding the degree of risk or the probability or at what point/level it goes wrong. That’s why I’ve never really got all the chat of “economists have predicted xx of the last x recessions yadda yadda”. I’m fine with that, I’d be more concerned if they predicted 0 of the last x recessions.

01100011•2mo ago
and shorting something priced in a currency is effectively going long on the currency as well. If the USD takes a dive due to, idk, increasing populism from both major parties, stocks will do quite well in nominal terms. Your shorts will burn and you'll end up far worse than just staying in cash.

For most people, the best way to short is to just hold cash equivalents like short-term treasuries.

stogot•2mo ago
What is an example of shorting something not priced in a currency?
manquer•2mo ago
Positions are not necessary to be single transaction. They can be multi-step trade.

For global currency risk (meaning on USD), You will have to hedge your shorts with a non currency long position which historically hold value during defaults/ runs etc. Assets like gold (ETFs/Gold bars) or real estate (REITs or physical land holdings) or rights to commodity revenue like oil, copper etc [1].

If the currency risk is not for USD, then mix of other currencies particularly USD would work well as as hedge.

Currency risk is independent of shorting, i.e. it is risk in Long positions as well, current may inflate faster than your position increases in value etc.

---

[1] Commodity come with additional shorter term market volatility and risks - due their own supply/demand volatility and depend performance of economy.

However after assets like Gold, they will have highest correlation of returns against inflation as long the economy doesn't completely crash, because the demand for them is foundational

loeg•2mo ago
I don't think GP is suggesting any particular bet isn't priced in some currency, just that you're also taking currency risk you might not be aware of.
tsycho•2mo ago
Short the stock, go long the appropriate index.

eg: If you think NVDA is overvalued relative to the overall tech sector, you could short NVDA, go long QQQ.

And if you have a more opinionated trade in the same currency, eg: you think AAPL will be fine if the AI trade pops, you can do short NVDA, long AAPL.

Finally, an even more advanced version would be to go long on something else in the same sector, but which is less overvalued in your opinion. eg: Short ORCL, long NVDA.

skluug•2mo ago
You can use the cash you get from shorting to invest in other assets. Shorting doesn’t require you to hold cash.
DaveZale•2mo ago
also you may have to pay interest on shorted shares. Better to take a Burry/Taleb approach of extreme option bets with small money.
hypeatei•2mo ago
You also have to pay dividends on the shorted shares.
treetalker•2mo ago
My understanding is that an extremely OTM put on a clear, strongly held thesis would be Burry-like, and many people would be able to do so.

But Taleb's point is that (non-insiders) cannot accurately predict regarding individual securities (hence derivatives), but can identify over-/under-priced OTM options — and that, trading these systematically, one can suffer many repeated "small" losses that become outweighed by the Big One that eventually (yet unpredictably) hits, thus generating overall positive expected value. But, as I further understand Taleb, most people don't have the huge capital that enables such a strategy, and that doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc., are better off making money by plying their professional services and perhaps investing in index funds and the like.

the__alchemist•2mo ago
How do you take advantage of these options without getting screwed by the bid/ask spread? Whenever I think I see one, the spread kills it for me.
fhrjfjfnd•2mo ago
Buy the options with the intention of them either hugely appreciating in value or expiring worthless. Under Taleb's system, your bet sizes should be small enough that it doesn't matter if individual options tranches expire worthless. The bid/ask spread only matters when you try to cut losses on a large bet, which is outside the scope of this strategy.
sitzkrieg•2mo ago
look at strikes where higher OI is. everything will be arbd out by bots on anything that isn't thin though. i trade futures for this reason though, because they are actually centralized unlike us equities. selling calls for a credit or spreading into free long entry is a better strategy in every way though.
DaveZale•2mo ago
it's not 100% real, I bought a call last week at a deep discount to the ASK.

Do you remember the stock market a few decades ago? Stocks once had large bid/ask spreads. Now the hft/dark pools eat it all, with 99% profit on trades. High speed, lasers and fiber optics front-running..

oa335•2mo ago
You will end up paying that "interest" on long put positions. The advantage of options is an ability to make more granular bets.
the__alchemist•2mo ago
Thought terminating cliches only terminate thoughts if you allow them to.
bdangubic•2mo ago
this statement could be just replaced with TSLA :)
rasz•2mo ago
Nicola scam was still worth real money a good year after CEO conviction.
matt3210•2mo ago
The market is rational. If it's is not doing what you expect, then you are the irrational one.
3eb7988a1663•2mo ago
When pets.com is selling dog food for less than it costs, but the stock price keeps going up, that is rational?
skybrian•2mo ago
https://archive.is/TJAfs

It's pretty clearly not a "how to" that ordinary people can practically use. More like "How someone else might do it."

the__alchemist•2mo ago
I got in on 4 of the big quantum computing stocks ~a month ago. I haven't felt this good about a short since Nikola; one of the few times I will use "money left on the table".

I miss Hindenburg.

Unfortunately, most of the scammiest companies (e.g. ones you hear about on HN) are not IPOed, so you can't short them using traditional methods. I'm glad the article points out some non-traditional ones, but I'm not clear on how to actually do it.

delichon•2mo ago
I hope you lose a lot of money on at least one of those positions. I want to be in a timeline where quantum and AI computing grow up together.
rimbo789•2mo ago
So you want all the humans replaced then?
delichon•2mo ago
I want minions.
Nextgrid•2mo ago
It's more likely you will be the minion doing menial tasks (that aren't worth automating because unskilled human labor is unbelievably cheap), while all the better-paying, intellectually-engaging jobs have all been automated away.
osiris970•2mo ago
Automation is inevitable, has happened non-stop since the industrial revolution. Imo we should never "protect jobs" when in the end they will hurt the vast majority of other people.
jazzyjackson•2mo ago
What do you want quantum to do? I thought it's good for medicine discovery and material discovery, where you might simulate physical quantum processes, but it's quite theoretical that we actually get an outcome from that isn't there? Is there any drug/protein/molecule simulation that people are trying to do but classical hardware is too slow to bother?

Qubits are neat and all I just won't be places bets.

cl42•2mo ago
Do you ever pair trade or hedge your shorts by buying indices? For example, short the quantum stocks but buy NASDAQ index (or call options) in case everything keeps going up?
the__alchemist•2mo ago
Hard to say, because most of what I own is indexes. I do explicitly do an inversion of this: Counter my index positions of certain stocks I don't want to own by shorting them in small amounts. So, these shorts are a hedge, vs a stock I think is worthless/fraud like the QC ones.
cl42•2mo ago
That’s awesome, thanks!
brcmthrowaway•2mo ago
do you have a stop loss?
dionian•2mo ago
I just use $QTUM
iloveurcelsnuf•2mo ago
"how to take a mom from a toddler" when nobody is around?

I bet there's an entry in some dude's journal from the 1100s

MS-DOS game copy protection and cracks

https://www.dosdays.co.uk/topics/game_cracks.php
1•TheCraiggers•53s ago•0 comments

Updates on GNU/Hurd progress [video]

https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/7FZXHF-updates_on_gnuhurd_progress_rump_drivers_64bit_smp_...
1•birdculture•1m ago•0 comments

Epstein took a photo of his 2015 dinner with Zuckerberg and Musk

https://xcancel.com/search?f=tweets&q=davenewworld_2%2Fstatus%2F2020128223850316274
1•doener•2m ago•0 comments

MyFlames: Visualize MySQL query execution plans as interactive FlameGraphs

https://github.com/vgrippa/myflames
1•tanelpoder•3m ago•0 comments

Show HN: LLM of Babel

https://clairefro.github.io/llm-of-babel/
1•marjipan200•3m ago•0 comments

A modern iperf3 alternative with a live TUI, multi-client server, QUIC support

https://github.com/lance0/xfr
1•tanelpoder•4m ago•0 comments

Famfamfam Silk icons – also with CSS spritesheet

https://github.com/legacy-icons/famfamfam-silk
1•thunderbong•5m ago•0 comments

Apple is the only Big Tech company whose capex declined last quarter

https://sherwood.news/tech/apple-is-the-only-big-tech-company-whose-capex-declined-last-quarter/
1•elsewhen•8m ago•0 comments

Reverse-Engineering Raiders of the Lost Ark for the Atari 2600

https://github.com/joshuanwalker/Raiders2600
2•todsacerdoti•9m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Deterministic NDJSON audit logs – v1.2 update (structural gaps)

https://github.com/yupme-bot/kernel-ndjson-proofs
1•Slaine•13m ago•0 comments

The Greater Copenhagen Region could be your friend's next career move

https://www.greatercphregion.com/friend-recruiter-program
1•mooreds•13m ago•0 comments

Do Not Confirm – Fiction by OpenClaw

https://thedailymolt.substack.com/p/do-not-confirm
1•jamesjyu•14m ago•0 comments

The Analytical Profile of Peas

https://www.fossanalytics.com/en/news-articles/more-industries/the-analytical-profile-of-peas
1•mooreds•14m ago•0 comments

Hallucinations in GPT5 – Can models say "I don't know" (June 2025)

https://jobswithgpt.com/blog/llm-eval-hallucinations-t20-cricket/
1•sp1982•14m ago•0 comments

What AI is good for, according to developers

https://github.blog/ai-and-ml/generative-ai/what-ai-is-actually-good-for-according-to-developers/
1•mooreds•14m ago•0 comments

OpenAI might pivot to the "most addictive digital friend" or face extinction

https://twitter.com/lebed2045/status/2020184853271167186
1•lebed2045•16m ago•2 comments

Show HN: Know how your SaaS is doing in 30 seconds

https://anypanel.io
1•dasfelix•16m ago•0 comments

ClawdBot Ordered Me Lunch

https://nickalexander.org/drafts/auto-sandwich.html
3•nick007•17m ago•0 comments

What the News media thinks about your Indian stock investments

https://stocktrends.numerical.works/
1•mindaslab•18m ago•0 comments

Running Lua on a tiny console from 2001

https://ivie.codes/page/pokemon-mini-lua
1•Charmunk•18m ago•0 comments

Google and Microsoft Paying Creators $500K+ to Promote AI Tools

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/02/06/google-microsoft-pay-creators-500000-and-more-to-promote-ai.html
2•belter•21m ago•0 comments

New filtration technology could be game-changer in removal of PFAS

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/23/pfas-forever-chemicals-filtration
1•PaulHoule•22m ago•0 comments

Show HN: I saw this cool navigation reveal, so I made a simple HTML+CSS version

https://github.com/Momciloo/fun-with-clip-path
2•momciloo•22m ago•0 comments

Kinda Surprised by Seadance2's Moderation

https://seedanceai.me/
1•ri-vai•22m ago•2 comments

I Write Games in C (yes, C)

https://jonathanwhiting.com/writing/blog/games_in_c/
2•valyala•22m ago•0 comments

Django scales. Stop blaming the framework (part 1 of 3)

https://medium.com/@tk512/django-scales-stop-blaming-the-framework-part-1-of-3-a2b5b0ff811f
1•sgt•23m ago•0 comments

Malwarebytes Is Now in ChatGPT

https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/product/2026/02/scam-checking-just-got-easier-malwarebytes-is-n...
1•m-hodges•23m ago•0 comments

Thoughts on the job market in the age of LLMs

https://www.interconnects.ai/p/thoughts-on-the-hiring-market-in
1•gmays•23m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Stacky – certain block game clone

https://www.susmel.com/stacky/
3•Keyframe•26m ago•0 comments

AIII: A public benchmark for AI narrative and political independence

https://github.com/GRMPZQUIDOS/AIII
1•GRMPZ23•27m ago•0 comments