frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Plane crashed after 3D-printed part collapsed

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1w932vqye0o
67•toss1•45m ago

Comments

CarVac•31m ago
I wonder what material it was printed with.

edit: It was ABS-CF, which shouldn't be used under stress long-term in higher temperatures than maybe 65-70°C, or lower depending on the blend.

gostsamo•29m ago
> The Cozy Mk IV light aircraft was destroyed after its plastic air induction elbow, bought at an air show in North America, collapsed.
the_mitsuhiko•28m ago
CF-ABS

> An alternative construction method for the air induction elbow, shown in the Cozy Mk IV plans, is a lamination of four layers of bi-directional glassfibre cloth with epoxy resin. The epoxy resin specified for the laminate has a glass transition temperature of 84°C, after the finished part has been post-cured. The aircraft owner stated that as the glass transition temperature listed for the CF-ABS material was higher than the epoxy resin, he was satisfied the component was fit for use in this application when it was installed

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69297a4e345e3...

ohazi•24m ago
What a misunderstanding -- glass transition temperature means different things for thermoplastics (i.e. anything that comes out of an FDM printer like the CF-ABS in question) and for thermosetting resins like epoxy that actually undergo molecular cross-linking during the curing phase. Thermoplastics will get soft and can deform without limit, while thermosets get rubbery but still more or less hold their formed shape.
buildbot•24m ago
I think an extended quote shows that this was a really bad call:

“ The aircraft owner stated that as the glass transition temperature listed for the CF-ABS material was higher than the epoxy resin, he was satisfied the component was fit for use in this application when it was installed. A review of the design of the laminated induction elbow in the Cozy Mk IV plans showed that it featured a section of thin-walled aluminium tube at the inlet end of the elbow, where the air filter is attached. The aluminium tube provides a degree of temperature-insensitive structural support for the inlet end of the elbow. The 3D-printed induction elbow on G-BYLZ did not include a similar section of aluminium tube at the inlet end. Tests and research Two samples from the air induction elbow were subjected to testing, using a heat-flux differential scanning calorimeter, to determine their glass transition temperature. The measured glass transition temperature for the first sample was 52.8°C, and 54.0°C for the second sample.“

jandrese•16m ago
> The epoxy resin specified for the laminate has a glass transition temperature of 84°C

This seems very low for the kinds of epoxy I've used. I wonder if the manufacturer specs are highly conservative? Or maybe the material has a shortened lifespan with even moderate temperatures?

I was thinking about the ABS in the article and wondering if I would have made the same mistake. Close to every car manufactured today has plastic intakes, usually bolted right on top of the engine. The incoming air should help keep it cool, especially on aircraft. Maybe it was the radiant heat from a nearby cylinder that melted it?

CarVac•12m ago
There are some incredibly low Tg epoxies out there, such as West Systems 105 where "TG onset" is 54°C and the heat deflection temperature is even lower.
bluerooibos•28m ago
I wonder who installed it. Was the pilot home 3D printing mods for their plane? And is that even allowed? Super concerning if there was a company behind the installation.

I'd think any semi competent engineer would know better.

Edit: from the report - "A modification application was made to the LAA in 2019, by the aircraft owner2 , to replace the engine’s throttle body fuel injector with a mechanical fuel injection system. This system consisted of a fuel controller, high-pressure engine-driven fuel pump, electric auxiliary fuel pump, fuel flow transducer and associated fuel hoses, filters and fittings. Following flight testing, the modified fuel system was approved by the LAA in 2022. The modified fuel injection system had accumulated 37 hours in service when the accident occurred."

So the pilot himself and the LAA were incompetent. LAA is an association for amateur pilots though so I'm not sure what level of rigour they "approve" things with.

Zak•25m ago
Nearly anything is allowed for experimental amateur-built aircraft like the one in this incident. Unapproved modifications to certified aircraft are forbidden in most parts of the world.
proee•24m ago
The plane is an experimental class, so I doubt they have to follow a lot of regulations.
duskwuff•18m ago
In addition to what other users have mentioned, the airplane changed hands in August 2024, after the modifications were made.
MBCook•27m ago
Given what it was would it have been under actual stress?

Certainly seems questionable to use any 3-D printed plastic material for exhaust. That’s absolutely going to be too hot.

CarVac•24m ago
It was an intake manifold, so it's continuously under suction. At the temperatures in an engine bay the plastic probably gradually creeped to a point where the restriction increased the suction and suddenly it collapses completely.
brovonov•23m ago
Lower, according to the report

"Two samples from the air induction elbow were subjected to testing, using a heat-flux differential scanning calorimeter, to determine their glass transition temperature. The measured glass transition temperature for the first sample was 52.8°C, and 54.0°C for the second sample"

Yeah, they might have used ABS-CF filament, but unless they got it from a good brand that uses good resin and proper printing parameters, the actual Tg will be lower, plus the stress from the vibration/load could have made the part fail if it was not for the heat later in flight.

CarVac•20m ago
Some manufacturers fudge the Tg.

Polymaker Polylite ABS has a claimed Tg of 101°C but the HDT curve clearly shows it starting to lose strength at 50°C, for example.

brovonov•16m ago
Polymaker's ABS is dubious too because it is blended with PETG. They are coming out with a Pro version that has a higher Tg and requires way higher chamber temps to print properly.
teamonkey•30m ago
The actual report[1] holds the answer to the question you’re asking.

CF-ABS (or so claimed)

[1] https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-cozy-m...

ohazi•30m ago
Actual report: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/487013

Material was CF-ABS

o11c•29m ago
At a glance, that looks like worse than merely the negligence of using a new technology.

The whole point of 3D printing is that the material is moldable when hot but rigid when it cools. And people really should be aware that engines get hot.

lazide•19m ago
Bought it at a get-together.

Like gunshows, it’s a magnet for bad ideas.

CarVac•19m ago
I think the main issue is that many filament manufacturers mislead or outright lie about their filament capabilities.
hatsunearu•17m ago
Apparently they thought it's ok because the published glass transition temp is higher than the epoxy used for fiberglass construction
cmiles8•28m ago
This might be Darwin Award eligible!
shagie•15m ago
> The sole occupant was taken to hospital with minor injuries.
mdni007•27m ago
3D printing parts is FAA approved?
petcat•22m ago
Crash occurred in UK
stetrain•21m ago
I'm not sure Gloucestershire is under FAA jurisdiction.
einpoklum•19m ago
You may want to ask about the LAA: Light Aircraft Association.
hatsunearu•24m ago
Is this a Part 103 Ultralight?

Also it's insane that they used a bolted joint with plastics on a critical place, the plastic will creep under the clamp load and will lose clamp force.

bri3d•6m ago
> Is this a Part 103 Ultralight?

Well, no, it's in the UK. It also has a gross weight of around 2000lbs, so it's probably not subject to any of the relaxed regulations anywhere, although I don't know how the UK homebuilt rules work these days.

fudged71•19m ago
This is the mechanical equivalent of vibe coding. 3D printing itself isn't exactly to blame but the negligence of the company that created and sold this part and omitted it's use from an inspection.

Just because a part has the shape of an engineered part does not make it compatible, strong, safe, and fit for purpose. This part could have likely been fine if it used a different material such as Ultem.

owenversteeg•17m ago
The part was claimed to be ABS-CF. UK AAIB tested the part and found it to have a Tg of approximately 53C. The Tg of ABS is far higher, around 100C. I suspect that the part may have been accidentally printed with PLA-CF (which has a Tg of approximately 55C.)

The original part was fiberglass/epoxy with the epoxy having a Tg of 84C.

brovonov•14m ago
Plastics under load have a lower Tg.
hatsunearu•13m ago
Isn't Tg a poorly defined metric? It seems like thermoplastics will lose their strength as temperature goes up and there's no abrupt transition where there's a near step-change in behavior
brovonov•10m ago
It kind of is, a better metric is HDT (Heat Deflection Temperature), and it is based on curve usually load over temp.
CarVac•10m ago
Tg changes? Or do you mean they deflect sooner under more load?
Kirby64•6m ago
Tg does not change with load.

HDT does, kind of, but that’s already covered by the load being defined for the various conditions. HDT is always defined at a specific load so it also does not change with load (since load is fixed).

mberning•17m ago
The person that installed should have thought more carefully about it. But the person that printed it and sold it should face some legal repercussions. Totally irresponsible what they did.
einpoklum•16m ago
The part was a "plastic air induction elbow", i.e. this kind of thing:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=plastic+air+induction+elbow&ia=ima...

so, if you were thinking "who would use a 3D-printed part", remember that it may otherwise also have been made with some liquid material, but using a mold, and perhaps two parts using a mold that are joined with re-heating etc. - and now it no longer sounds so outlandish.

lemonwaterlime•14m ago
Taken at face value, this is engineering negligence. I've done industrial design with plastics and 3D printed parts. Regardless of the forming techniques, with plastics you still need to consider properties like minimum melting temperatures, tensile stress, and so forth. Then you must test that rigorously. This is all standard procedure. That information is in the data sheet for the material.

I did a quick search and found that many plastics are governed by ISO 11357 test standard [1]. Some of the plastics I have worked with used this standard.

A spec sheet for that material is here [2].

[1]: https://www.iso.org/standard/83904.html

[2]: https://um-support-files.ultimaker.com/materials/1.75mm/tds/...

theideaofcoffee•13m ago
And this is why (at least for the US) aviation parts have such an onerous paperwork overhead, why a seemingly cheap part like a $.50 bolt balloons to much greater. Granted this aircraft was a UK-equivalent to "experimental" in the US, where you can pretty much do anything to it, I'm of the opinion that doesn't excuse maintenance and adding fly-by-night parts that borders on negligence. Stick to a minimum standard, if not just out of shame of something that could happen.
gpm•12m ago
I wonder if just including the aluminum tube that was effectively acting as a heat break would have been enough...

Really it seems like a problem of not understanding the environment, and testing (with margins) your replacement in it... 3D printing seems nearly entirely unrelated apart from enabling people to make parts.

An injection molded part, for a close more traditional analogue, would presumably have failed the same way here.

Also the glass transition temperature reported in the report is suspiciously low for ABS and the only source on the material is the owner saying the person they bought it from said... I wonder if it was just outright made out of the wrong material by accident.

giancarlostoro•11m ago
I showed this to a pilot friend of mine out of curiosity, he noted that this type of aircraft is usually kit built / home built. So the fact a part of it was 3D printed was not a total shock.

Edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Rutan

commakozzi•9m ago
i'm confused: if they were on final and lost power, why not just glide to the runway??

edit: nvm, i found my answer in the actual report.

segmondy•9m ago
It's a light aircraft, the owner probably built it and is allowed to fix it. So it's probably not a company that printed the part.
gpm•7m ago
Per the report

> The aircraft owner who installed the modified fuel system stated that the 3D-printed induction elbow was purchased in the USA at an airshow, and he understood from the vendor that it was printed from CF-ABS

turnsout•9m ago
Wow. It's called "thermoplastic" for a reason.

Why won't Steam Machine support HDMI 2.1?

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/12/why-wont-steam-machine-support-hdmi-2-1-digging-in-on-the-...
1•saghm•27s ago•0 comments

Ask HN: Will AI make humans smarter through evolutionary selection pressure?

1•amichail•1m ago•0 comments

The Thoughts of a Spiderweb (2017)

https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-thoughts-of-a-spiderweb-20170523/
1•ColinWright•1m ago•0 comments

IKEA arrives in New Zealand. Even the country's leader came out to celebrate

https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/04/business/ikea-sweden-new-zealand-intl-hnk
1•TMWNN•1m ago•0 comments

Thoughts on Go vs. Rust vs. Zig

https://sinclairtarget.com/blog/2025/08/thoughts-on-go-vs.-rust-vs.-zig/
1•yurivish•1m ago•0 comments

Show HN: The Turboconfabulator – LLM Turboencabulator Parody [video]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2kyK_-9Jo7M
1•rmatteson•2m ago•0 comments

Structured Iteration – The C++ Way

https://thecppway.com/posts/structured_iteration/
1•klaussilveira•5m ago•0 comments

Discovering universal technical indicators with AlphaEvolve

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5791062
1•kyuksel•8m ago•2 comments

Investment without optimization: LLM-as-a-Judge tournaments and evolution

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5835462
1•kyuksel•9m ago•2 comments

NASA Rocket Engine Fireplace (8 hrs in 4K) [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cgTVTwu4nw
2•rmason•10m ago•0 comments

Countdown until the AI bubble bursts

https://pop-the-bubble.xyz/
3•tapematch•14m ago•0 comments

The Department of War Just Shot the Accountants and Opted for Speed

https://steve-blank.com/
1•rmason•15m ago•0 comments

Baby dies after being left lying on cold and damp bed sheets at Welsh hospital

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/baby-died-after-being-left-32964330
1•iamronaldo•16m ago•0 comments

Common Knowledge, Regained

https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.04374
1•robot-wrangler•17m ago•0 comments

AI-Native vs. Anti-AI Engineers

1•grandimam•21m ago•1 comments

The Navigational Triangle

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2025/12/04/the-navigational-triangle/
1•ibobev•21m ago•0 comments

Me vs. the VNC Guy

https://martinrue.com/coding-stories-me-vs-vnc/
1•afisxisto•21m ago•0 comments

Solving Spherical Triangles

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2025/12/04/solving-spherical-triangles/
1•ibobev•21m ago•0 comments

Google Antigravity wipes user's HDD

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/googles-agentic-ai-wipes-users...
4•jihadjihad•22m ago•1 comments

NY judge orders OpenAI to hand over ChatGPT conversations in win for newspapers

https://www.nydailynews.com/2025/12/03/ny-judge-orders-openai-to-hand-over-chatgpt-conversations-...
3•Cyclone_•22m ago•1 comments

Show HN: ~$ root-dir closed beta is live – a command-line community for devs

https://www.root-dir.com
1•madsmadsdk•22m ago•0 comments

From Zero to Package in Seconds: The New Conan MCP Server

https://blog.conan.io/mcp/ai/gpt/conan/conan-mcp/2025/12/04/From-Zero-to-Package-in-Seconds-the-n...
2•ibobev•22m ago•0 comments

A quine made with Nix and HTML

https://embedding-shapes.github.io/niccup/examples/quine/demo/
1•embedding-shape•22m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Feedvote – A feedback board with deep 2-way Linear/Jira sync

https://feedvote.app
1•dragssine•25m ago•0 comments

Why One Man Is Fighting for Our Right to Control Our Garage Door Openers

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/04/technology/personaltech/why-one-man-is-fighting-for-our-right-...
2•tysone•26m ago•0 comments

We Know the Time of Day on Mars

https://nautil.us/we-finally-know-the-time-of-day-on-mars-1252640/
1•fleahunter•27m ago•0 comments

Grothendieck's Activism and What It Says About the World

https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2014/11/grothendiecks_activism_and_wha.html
1•robot-wrangler•28m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Claude-ping – a WhatsApp bridge for Claude Code

https://github.com/conbon/claude-ping
2•conbon_•31m ago•0 comments

Mapping the Missile Fields

https://www.nps.gov/articles/mappingmissilefield.htm
1•debo_•31m ago•0 comments

Becoming Unblockable

https://www.seangoedecke.com/unblockable/
1•dondraper36•31m ago•0 comments