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US Supreme Court agrees to hear case challenging birthright citizenship

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c208j0wrzrvo
13•1659447091•1h ago

Comments

wonderwonder•49m ago
"For nearly 160 years, the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution has established the principle that anyone born in the country is a US citizen, with exceptions for children born to diplomats and foreign military forces."

I was actually unaware of this. That does seem to be a wedge to maybe support the issue. I'm not arguing one way or another for or against, just an interesting opening I had not seen before.

commandlinefan•46m ago
It's tricky - the 14th amendment was passed following reconstruction as a way of ensuring that freed slaves couldn't be denied citizenship. Much later, the Wong Kim Ark case argued that it should cover the children of immigrants, and the supreme court agreed. Quite a while after that, the Wong Kim Ark decision was interpreted to include children of non-citizens as well, and _that's_ what's never been tested in court until now.
wonderwonder•40m ago
Haven't heard of this either, obviously not a topic I am up to date on. I'll look into it, appreciate the pointer.
josefritzishere•32m ago
It should not be tricky. The role of the supreme court is to enforce and interpret the constitution and federal law. What the constitution says in this case is unambiguous. It would very reductive to re-inturpret the 14th amendment after 150 years to mean something other than what it says.
krapp•28m ago
> It would very reductive to re-inturpret the 14th amendment after 150 years to mean something other than what it says.

They did it with the Second Amendment in DC v. Heller. The Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court decides it means, nothing else, nothing more, nothing less.

Ancapistani•21m ago
> the Wong Kim Ark decision was interpreted to include children of non-citizens as well

Non-citizens, yes, but foreign subjects who were compliant with US law at the time.

I believe the scope of this decision will be limited to children born on US soil to non-citizens who entered the country illegally.

oldsklgdfth•40m ago
The precursor to this case is Trump v. CASA[0], which arose from injunctions blocking the executive order banning birthright citizenship. The case made it to the supreme court on the emergency docket. The court did not address the merits of the case (i.e. is the ban on birthright citizenship constitutional), rather they heard an argument against universal injunctions and the authority of a judge to block executive order. The court judged against universal injunctions. Basically the EO stands.

Subsequently, the plaintiffs forced a certified class and sought a class-wide injunction. This case is called Trump v. Barbara. SCOTUS has agreed to hear the case on the question of the constitutionality of a ban on birthright citizenship.

[0] https://www.scotusblog.com/cases/case-files/trump-v-casa-inc...

EDIT: The Trump v. CASA opinion handed a win to the executive to issues orders without universal injunctions blocking the order immediately. My hot take is that this was part of the original strategy. Not sure how the court will land on the current question at hand.

josefritzishere•37m ago
This is madness.
Ancapistani•29m ago
It's really not.

First, _jus soli_ is relatively rare in the world at large.

Second, the Supreme Court has never ruled on birthright citizenship; the meaning of the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has not been tested.

Regardless of your political views, this is an extremely important area of US law, and for it to be undefined isn't fair to anyone.

D13Fd•13m ago
Even if "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has never made it to the Supreme Court, it's not an ambiguous phrase subject to multiple interpretations. The idea that some class of immigrants are outside the jurisdiction of the US even when they are physically in the country is not supportable.
jmclnx•30m ago
We know the current supreme court will end this.

But the big question is how will this be enforced ?

What happens if the parents became citizens after their children were born. Will the children be deemed non-US ?

Also I know many people who's children were born in the US but parents were from Ireland and not US citizens. Either on a tourist visa or work visa or undocumented. Some kids have need here for over 50 years.

Will this only be enforced if the child has the "wrong" skin color ? That is what I expect.

Ancapistani•24m ago
It's extremely uncommon for the court to issue an opinion with such large repercussions.

Even if birthright citizenship is overturned (which I find very unlikely), I would expect it to be narrowly defined so as to apply only to children born of parents not present legally in the country - and likely with a specific carveout for those who overstay visas and such, as those people are clearly subject to US jurisdiction by virtue of the application process.

The absolute largest change I would expect would be to end birthright citizenship for children whose parents illegally entered into the US and have never had a visa of entry permit of any type whatsoever.

oldsklgdfth•17m ago
> The absolute largest change I would expect would be to end birthright citizenship for children whose parents illegally entered into the US and have never had a visa of entry permit of any type whatsoever.

That's the vibe I get.

However, I don't see a definition of jurisdiction in the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" that would make this workable. How do you see this being resolved?

commandlinefan•9m ago
> those people are clearly subject to US jurisdiction by virtue of the application process.

But the wording doesn't apply to the parents, it applies to the baby: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof", not "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and whose parents are subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

cratermoon•23m ago
Hannah Arendt's 1951 book The Origins of Totalitarianism in the chapter titled "The Decline of the Nation-State and the End of the Rights of Man" discusses how European countries did this after World War I and the results of those efforts.
D13Fd•17m ago
> We know the current supreme court will end this.

Do we? The language of the 14th Amendment is extraordinarily clear:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

I agree it's possible that the Court will just throw it out. But at that point, what meaning does the constitution have? How are any of our rights protected if the Court can just void the plain language of an amendment?

Crazy stuff.

palmotea•10m ago
> What happens if the parents became citizens after their children were born. Will the children be deemed non-US ?

There are already laws about that. IIRC, all minor children become citizens when a parent is naturalized.

cratermoon•25m ago
After the first world war Austria-Hungary and Serbia ceased to exist and, along with parts of Russia, became parts of the new countries of Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Czechoslovakia along with an enlarged Romania and a number of other smaller countries.

The result of this is that many people became stateless or de facto citizens of a country where they were in the minority. The Minority Treaties attempted to ensure these citizens maintained rights in countries of the League of Nations, but this was ill-enforced at best.

During the years leading up to World War II, numerous of these new countries, plus France and Germany, began to de-naturalize people of minority (for that country) descent including Germans, Poles, Balkans, Russian, Spaniards and of course Jews. They began to revoke citizenship of both naturalized and native-born people, and attempted to deport them to various places even though many had never lived there and those countries did not want them.

threatofrain•19m ago
Mmm I'm sensing the potential for a new product.

Imagine a company that partners with ICE so that we can easily tell whether a suspect is legal based on a visible wearable on the arm. That way we can preserve privacy to the max while still minimally confirming a suspect's legal status. And scanning and tracking can be completely unobtrusive, built into different building barriers that will light up when an illegal person attempts to cross. You won't be able to go into a supermarket.

This product may have international appeal. Can anyone stop this future?

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