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Microsoft has a problem: nobody wants to buy or use its shoddy AI products

https://www.windowscentral.com/artificial-intelligence/microsoft-has-a-problem-nobody-wants-to-buy-or-use-its-shoddy-ai
103•mohi-kalantari•51m ago

Comments

jimbob45•41m ago
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/microsofts-revenue-by-produ...

Helpful chart to draw conclusions

NicoJuicy•37m ago
That's 2 years old?
glimshe•36m ago
Is Bing now called "Copilot" too?
CoastalCoder•17m ago
Or "Watson". I lose track.
remirk•35m ago
I doubt it's useful to draw conclusions in today's world. The chart is almost two years old.
jpmattia•37m ago
Maybe they could add a helpful paper clip to improve sales.

Edit: Or better still, convince all of their customers to throw away perfectly good hardware and upgrade to one with a single extra chip, creating a hazardous waste epidemic for landfills as a nice side effect. It's especially important to do this in the middle of a RAM and HDD shortage.

Really, I'll just never be half the great business strategist that these guys are. <sigh>

venturecruelty•35m ago
Aw, that won't matter when management just forces you to use Copilot or else you're fired.
jacquesm•26m ago
Unfortunately that is probably how it will end.
SideburnsOfDoom•12m ago
That's how it already is in some companies.
outside1234•34m ago
Microsoft has a problem that they hire the middle block of talent in the market. They do not chase the top 20% most expensive nor the bottom 20% least expensive.

But this also means they end up with average products. They don't have the talent to do something exceptional.

This has worked well for them when they can just come in and copy something (say AWS in Azure) and not pay the innovation cost, but AI seems different for some reason, perhaps in the same way search was. You need the top 20% in order to really be successful.

jacquesm•25m ago
The only time they copied something successfully and did not rely on major tie-ins with their existing monopoly was Xbox and that division lost money hand over first for a long time.
Hasz•7m ago
this is just not true. Building great products with average talent is a sign of great management, and it's been done before in both business and sports. moneyball is about this idea at some level.

Plenty of SV is building below average products with exceptional talent.

lateforwork•7m ago
That’s exactly what happened. For the past decade, the crème de la crème went to Google and Meta, which offered nearly double what Microsoft paid new graduates. Microsoft hired the next tier, after the top talent had already been skimmed off by Google and Meta.
this_user•34m ago
Microsoft's entire business model for decades has been to shove shoddy products down people's throats. And somehow, they have figured out how to do it too, because otherwise Teams wouldn't be used by anyone.
janlukacs•32m ago
I find it fascinating how they are able to sell their crap software.
drcongo•19m ago
My theory is that they deliberately make Windows so shit to filter out anyone with taste. Once you have a userbase of people who don't know better, you can sell them any old crap. Like Teams.
falcor84•19m ago
It's the oldest trick in the IT book - focus on the buyer persona and ignore the user persona.
afavour•20m ago
Microsoft’s best pitch (and Google benefits from this too) is that contracts are annoying and take forever to execute. If you can sign a deal for Outlook and Teams it’s so much easier than separate contracts for Outlook and Slack. You’ll get very far with that logic alone.
dylan604•20m ago
> And somehow, they have figured out how to do it too

You say this like it was a mystery to start with. When you own 90+% of the user base, you can create trends with any changes implemented

llm_nerd•15m ago
Microsoft's entire business model has been tying. Countless millions are forced to use Copilot because their IT department has contracts with Microsoft, and those same contracts are why they use Office, Teams, and so on. Their developers use Visual Studio, deploy to Azure, and run it all against SQL Server. Their email comes from Exchange.

It has been an incredibly lucrative strategy. We all herald some CEO's prowess in growing revenue when they've been doing the same playbook for decades now, and have been running on the inertia of Windows dominance on the desktop. Every new entrant is pushed out through countless incredibly lazy IT departments that just adopt whatever Microsoft shits out.

It's actually surprising that the one and only area where this really failed was as they tried to lever tying to the mobile market. A couple of missteps along the way are the only reason every office drone isn't rocking their Lumia ExchangeLive! CoDevice.

neilalexander•33m ago
I would think that if they actually spent the time and money fixing the core functionality of their core products (like Windows and Office) that they might have a much easier time promoting things like Copilot. Instead they leave their users wondering why they're so hell-bent on shoehorning AI into a Start menu that takes whole seconds longer to open than it should or into Windows Search that regularly fails to find installed programs or local files.
jacquesm•27m ago
Because they so much want to be a service business than a software business. Microsoft execs are losing sleep over becoming the next IBM, not realizing they are already there and have been for a long time.

Their main problem is that they never really learned how to compete on merit, just on first-to-market and all kinds of legal (and illegal) tricks.

morkalork•18m ago
To be pedantic, IBM is a service company
mrweasel•25m ago
As long as companies, and consumers, still pick Windows and Office, then why spend the resources. Making Windows better won't move the sales number significantly, but removing the ads and the potential AI upsell is a direct hit to revenue.

The sad reality seems to be that Microsoft do not care about the majority of their products anymore. Only Azure, Microsoft 365 CoPilot, CoPilot and maybe CoPilot.

falcor84•21m ago
I'm not familiar with many "consumers" who still pick a Windows and Office, and in this generation, there are very few consumers picking xbox. Outside of enterprises, they seem to be losing market share everywhere, and at this rate they'll be akin to IBM or Oracle in a few years.
airstrike•18m ago
Office is part of the "Productivity and Business Processes" at Microsoft. That business unit had $120B of revenue in 2025.

Microsoft 365, which I believe includes Office, makes up $95B of that amount, which is split between Commercial (92%) and Consumer (8%)

From there you can see why they're focused on Enterprise.

Source: https://www.bamsec.com/filing/95017025100235?cik=789019 (page 39)

Spivak•23m ago
I will say that with enough group policy and sysinternals turning absolutely everything off, turning all of the settings to maximum performance lowest flashiness, no web results, killing Cortana with reckless abandon my Windows installation is actually what I would consider to be snappy. I was surprised.

It doesn't make it any better that Microsoft does this, but as a piece of practical advice, it seems like it can be done. There does still exist a core of Windows under all that garbage that is fast.

samrus•6m ago
All that tinkering is getting you dangerously close to daily driving linux. And the advantage there is that the maker isnt actively trying to get in your way
coldpie•16m ago
Microsoft is a public company. That means their primary product is not products or services, it's their stock. Selling products & services can be an advertisement for their stock, but there are other methods of convincing people to buy their stock, too. Currently the stock market only wants stocks that have "AI" associated with them. It doesn't matter whether users like it or not, because having a viable business is not what the stock market is currently focused on. So, Microsoft is doing what they need to do to sell their primary product: shove AI into everything.
saubeidl•15m ago
Maybe the stock market is not a good system to organize ones economy around then?
watwut•9m ago
That is not what stock market is. A company does not have to focus on stock price and stock price is not its primary product.
nolok•6m ago
It's basically the reason this bubble not only exists but has a chance not to pop : there is so much stock value in it that the big tech all want to keep feeding it, and they're sitting on so much cashflow they can afford to do it

It's absurd, but that's where it is. And a company like OpenAI basically hangs on it, because they have obligation almost ten time their revenue and the only way this does not deflate quickly is if others keep feeding it cash.

pjmlp•10m ago
Exactly, even those of us that like Windows have a hard time talking about it when Microsoft treats it so badly, I really miss Balmer era in regards to Windows.

The only good thing that came out of Satya era has been the Windows Terminal and WSL.

outside1234•32m ago
Gemini is really great now. Fast is insanely fast and handles 90% of queries. Deep Research works better than OpenAI's deep research given their search expertise.

It is going to be very hard for OpenAI or Microsoft to compete with this now that Google has gotten their act together.

ChicagoDave•29m ago
Still wonder why the OneDrive mobile can’t find a file and the photo backup has been broken for months. But I have a copilot button in notepad.

Satya’s days are numbered. The OpenAI investment will be a very costly and painful lesson.

raw_anon_1111•24m ago
And photo back up has never included metadata like locations when backing up to OneDrive making it usekdss
guluarte•11m ago
Onedrive, that useless app that creates a mess in the desktop if you have a laptop and a desktop like most users
voidfunc•27m ago
IMO, it's time for leadership change at Microsoft. Satya revitalized the company but now it needs a Product person that knows how to rebuild the quality of it's products.
johnyzee•26m ago
MS Bob -> Clippy -> Copilot -> ?
Perz1val•11m ago
You have forgotten Cortana
yks•23m ago
AI assistance is a gold rush — promotions are to be made and huge complex system to be over-engineered in Big Tech. The race to stake out the future empires is underway, and there is no time to think about the quality control, UX etc. But who am I kidding though, there is no time to think about those things during the chillest of times either, as any user of Power Automate can concur.
eviks•23m ago
The AI beating will continue untill the buying improves. And the use will be forсed by changing the OS.
ripvanwinkle•21m ago
I see mentions of Gemini as a fast growing alternative to ChatGPT. Isn't anyone troubled by the fact that for consumers there is no way to keep your data from being used for model training if you want to maintain history of your Gemini chats.

ChatGPT respects privacy and allows for maintaining history while also opting out of using ones data for model training

zubiaur•21m ago
Their copilot stuff is such a mess. Over promising, dressed with marketing slop on top of an under-performing product.

However; their azure offerings are somewhat decent. AI Search is getting quite decent, access to Open AI models served through foundry is quite the differentiator (although the rate limits are an issue), their reference architectures are very helpful and their ancillary services, like document intelligence integrate well.

I'm a bit worried that their marketing dept has gotten their crappifying and obfuscating eyes set on those services though, given the recent rebranding of Foundry and what not, but the underlying services are decent.

dylan604•18m ago
> Their <snip> stuff is such a mess. Over promising, dressed with marketing slop on top of an under-performing product.

Updated as it was almost close to being a generic comment about AI overall.

pjmlp•7m ago
See WinUI after Project Reunion announcement 5 years ago, unfortunately fits exactly the same description, and we are way past COVID to use that as an excuse.
orev•21m ago
It doesn’t matter. Microsoft has a monopoly on the desktop, and they have no qualms using it to displace competing products. They did it with Teams, and they’ll keep doing it because they know there’s no appetite for anti-trust prosecution anymore (or maybe they feel comfortable arguing they’re no longer a monopoly because they have no presence in mobile).

Every procurement team is going to point to copilot, saying it’s included with the other Microsoft services a company is already paying for, so duplicate AI products won’t be approved for purchase.

Microsoft is laying claim to the desktop real estate, so in a few more generations of the technology, they’ll have the customers and competitors will already be starved out.

andy99•20m ago
Big corporate AI products are all currently stupid bolt-ons that some committee decided solved a problem.

When the internet came out, did many legacy companies lead the way with online experiences, figuring out what the real killer apps now that everyone was connected were? I don’t know for sure, but I doubt it, I think it gave rise to some of the present crop of big tech, and others reinvented themselves after the use cases were discovered.

All that to say, I expect the same here. In 10 years there will be AI uses we take for granted, built by companies we haven’t heard of yet (plus the coding apps) and nobody will talk about stupid “rephrase with AI” and other mindless crap that legacy companies tried to push.

ChrisArchitect•20m ago
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46148748
guluarte•13m ago
Anyone remember Cortana? It seems like MS doesnt learn
6thbit•13m ago
Who are the likely successors if Satya steps down?
burnte•12m ago
They bought Dragon a few years ago, and 2 years ago they debuted the Dragon Ambient Experience, then renamed to Dragon Copilot. We had dozens of doctors try it, after a handful of months most had quit, it was a bad product. We switched to a competitor at literally 1/6th the price, and we don't even have to offer it, the doctors tell each other about it and they ask for it.

Nadella has done a lot of listening through is CEO reign but it looks like MS is back in a "don't listen to customers, tell them what they'll get" phase.

nolok•10m ago
I mean have you tried them ? I did and they're beyond terrible, of course they're not the one I pay for
elpakal•9m ago
Not just about the products imho. I do some consulting for law firms who typically use the MSFT stack, and I was excited about the private ChatGPT services in Azure, because from my (admittedly limited) sample of law firms, nobody likes using Copilot and LLMs need to be private/secure. The amount of outdated and poor quality documentation for Azure services is amazing given how nascent these services are.
devinprater•9m ago
Lol the Copilot app isn't even that useful on iOS for a blind person. On Android, you type something in, hit sent, and the app pipes the pure output of the AI, Markdown formatting and citation markup included, to the screen reader. That's at least something. I mean it's crumbs, yes, but we blind people are very, very used to crumbs.

On iOS, you type a message and send, and... nothing.

delaminator•8m ago
Open VSCode, close co-pilot again.

That monkey face simply won’t go away.

ZeroConcerns•5m ago
Well, the major problem Microsoft is facing is that its AI products are not only shoddier than average, which is nothing new for them in many categories, but that this time the competition can actually easily leapfrog them.

Like, I have a 'Copilot' button prominently displayed in my New Outlook on MacOS (the only platform where the app-with-that-designation is sort-of usable), and it's a dropdown menu, and it has... zero items when expanded.

I asked my 'Microsoft 365 Bing Chat AI Bot Powered By ChatGPT<tm>' about that, and it wasn't able to tell me how to make that button actually do something, ending the conversation with "yeah, that's sort-of a tease, isn't it?"...

Oh, well, and I actually also have a dedicated Copilot button on my new Lenovo laptop powered-by-Windows-11. And, guess what, it does exactly nothing! I can elect to either assign this button to 'Search', which opens a WebView2 to bing.com (ehhm, yeah, sure, thanks!) or to 'Custom', in which case it informs me that 'nothing' meets the hardware requirements to actually enable that.

So, my question to anyone in the Microsoft C-suite: have you ever tried to, like, actually use, like anything that you're selling? Because if you would have, the failings would have been obvious, right? Right??

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