Judge hints Vizio TV buyers may have rights to source code licensed under GPL

https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/05/vizio_gpl_source_code_ruling/

155•pabs3•10h ago

Comments

gnabgib•9h ago

Discussion (201 points, 12 days ago, 34 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46166994

charcircuit•4h ago

This doesn't make sense. If Vizo never licensed the software to you under the GPL, you can't say they violated the GPL. The court should not be able to make up contracts that don't exist between parties.

MattPalmer1086•4h ago

The only licence Vizo had to use the GPL software and distribute it to their users required them to make the code available to them on request.

If they don't do that, they are in violation of copyright (since nothing else gives them permission to copy and distribute it).

charcircuit•4h ago

This article is not about whether Smartcast TV has all the neccessary licenses to be distributed. It's not the copyright owner of a dependency suing them.

microtherion•3h ago

They are being sued by the SFC, which has been deputized by the actual copyright holders to act on their behalf: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/#linux

itopaloglu83•4h ago

If Vizio used GPL licensed software and did not follow its license rules, then they’re the ones breaking the license terms and GPL licensing of the product was always implied.

Not following the license terms have a name, stealing.

charcircuit•4h ago

They are clearly committing copyright infringement, but plenty of a copyright infringement happens in practice and it is tolerated by the copyright owners. This is not what I am objecting to though. I am objecting to the idea that Vizio has a contract with a user to give them the source code of their proprietary software. If Vizio ignore a license, in my mind there is no way for that license to establish a contract between Vizio and a user. How can there be a meeting of minds when Vizio's mind disagrees with the contract.

itopaloglu83•4h ago

I understand, it’s not a direct contract, but they’re infringing on copyrighted material to create their software and not following what they agreed.

Expecting to benefit from copyright in their own product while ignoring the license of all the products they used, that’s what bothers me, it’s hypocrisy. It’s open sourced software, free like speech, not like beer.

PS: I didn’t vote on any comment.

charcircuit•4h ago

>they’re infringing on copyrighted material

Sure.

>not following what they agreed.

They may have never agreed.

>that’s what bothers me

You can feel that way, but it's up to the copyright owner to decide if they want to go after such an infringement or if they are okay with it.

itopaloglu83•2h ago

What’s you’re saying is asinine and simply against the GPL terms. Using the GPL licensed software code without following its restrictions is theft.

Vizio then should stop using GPL licensed software or reach to a license agreement with them BEFORE selling any product that contains GPL license because that’s the license of the code they’re using.

plufz•4h ago

Isn’t it more that they have a contract with the developers of the GPL:ed code? But sure they can decide to break that contract and take the consequences of committing copyright infringement.

NoMoreNicksLeft•1h ago

When it suits a large company's interest, they are always providing a license to use the software inherent in their product rather than the customer purchasing and owning it. If they were allowed to turn around and claim otherwise only when it suited them the situation would be completely arbitrary.

So which is it, and under what circumstances, I would ask you.

jamesnorden•41m ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat

kube-system•9m ago

Sure, ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but contracts are not law. In fact, the law requires a "meeting of the minds" as a required element of a contract.

That being said, Vizio has a high paid legal department and is certainly not ignorant of the fact they ship third-party licensed software. They are simply ignoring it.

dragonwriter•4h ago

Well, first, yes, you can, if you can establish that you are an intended third-party beneficiary.

But, more to the point, that’s not the basis for the tentative ruling under discussion, so its irrelevant to whether the decision makes sense.

gwd•2h ago

Lots of courts think differently. In particular, Visio already tried to move the case from a state court to a federal court, on the grounds that this is only about copyright (over which apparently only federal courts have jurisdiction). The federal court denied that, saying that there was indeed a contract, and thus it should be sorted out in the state courts.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2022/may/16/vizio-remand-win/

jcarrano•48m ago

They "conveyed" the software, according to GPL wording. They violation is towards the original software's authors.

remix2000•3h ago

Am I misled in thinking that if this weren't mere IP trolling with no legal or even factual basis, SFC would've already thought to sue the biggest fish, i.e. Amazon, as they aren't publishing full Linux kernel sources as used in Kindles inside the "source releases", most notably the REAGL part of the EPDC driver…

poofsoda•3h ago

A common strategy is to first establish precedent by successfully suing smaller / less deep-pocketed entities, and then using that victory to compel more resourced organizations to comply. When SFC brought this lawsuit, Vizio was an independent company and much smaller than Amazon. Of course, its purchase by Walmart in 2024 changes that a bit—but before then, easier for SFC to face Vizio’s legal team than Amazon’s.

jmclnx•20m ago

>The tentative ruling is not a final decision

Well, this being the US, I guess the Judge is looking for more "tips".

https://natlawreview.com/article/it-tip-or-bribe-supreme-cou...