Personally, I use an 11-year-old machine and have had to add userscript hacks to certain major Web sites to work around bugs in CSS grid (not the "lanes" described here).
At least new JavaScript features can be "polyfilled" or whatever. Maybe sites could check for CSS feature support too? But they seem not to.
For example, the demo page linked in the article fails pretty unusably for me. All the images take up nearly the full viewport width.
How do you expect things to ever change if no one ever updates? Certainly even if you decide to lean towards maximum support it’s still a positive these features are being introduced so you can use them in 10 years.
Maybe things should stop changing.
We don't really need ten new CSS attributes every year. Things work. The elegant solution is to announce the project is done. That would bring some much-needed stability. Then we can focus on keeping things working.
Developers deserve nice things.
I agree they do. But Python is a bad counterexample. You can upgrade your Python on your server and no one has to know about it. But if you want to use new CSS features, then every browser has to implement that feature and every user has to upgrade their browser.
The intent of my comment was to express a desire to stabilize the web API in particular, not to freeze all software development in its tracks.
I digress.
> If enough consumers aren't able to use the website, then business wouldn't use it.
I sincerely doubt any business owner would approve of losing even 10% of their potential users/customers if they knew that was the trade-off for their web developer choosing to use this feature, but there are disconnects in communication about these kinds of things -- if the web developer even knows about compatibility issues themselves, which you would expect from any competent web developer, but there are a whole lot of incompetent web developers in the wild who won't even think about things like this.
But your GP is in a massive minority, if every developer would cater to 11 year old browsers we would be wasting a lot of developer time to inferior designs, with more hacks which brake the web for even more users.
You want to platform to be able to make progress and not be frozen in amber by what we had at some "magical" year when things were in some Golidlocks powerful enough but not too complex state. Especially since a lot of progress lately has been fixing long-standing inconsistencies and obvious gaps.
The cost of that is that yes, neither my Apple IIe or my Micro Pentium 90 run the modern web... one day my MBP M1 won't either.
Certainly can: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/A...
It doesn't even take many things to do this — the knock-on support of a bug in a driver that no-one wants to fix, a package that you like that prevents you from upgrading your host OS, web browser developers abandoning something about your GUI (how long before they drop X?) etc.
In the Linux world, the age of your machine is a limit with a blurry edge, but it's still there.
If you’ve been at this for a while, it’s important to remember that browsers update a lot faster than they used to. Anchor positioning came out last year, for example, and all of the major browsers support it by now. Very old devices are a problem but security is purging those out faster than used to be the case.
We also have better tools for progressive adoption since you can easily query for things like CSS feature support. In this demo, they didn’t implement fallbacks but in most real sites you’d have something like a basic grid layout which is perfectly serviceable for the fraction of users on old Firefox releases.
I don't think the world needs to cater to people that refuse even basic internet hygiene.
Yes. I held off learning about CSS Grid for a very long time and as soon as I did I was converted. Sometimes I think the web doesn’t get enough credit for its ambition: mobile viewports, desktop viewports, touch interaction, pointer interaction, complex documents, webapps… it’s a lot. But you get some complexity as a side effect. The complexity we do see these days isn’t invented out of whole cloth, it’s standardising and improving layouts people are implementing with JavaScript, often badly.
So what OS are you running that can't run modern versions of browsers, and on what hardware?
Current Chrome runs on Windows 10, which came out 9.5 years ago but was intended to run on older computers, and macOS Monterey, which runs on Macs from ~2014-2015 depending on the model. But even Big Sur before that, the most recent version of Chrome which runs on that is Chrome 138 from just 6 months ago, and that doesn't seem old enough that you need to build userscript hacks.
I'm really curious what you're actually running. Generally speaking, an 11-year-old machine should be able to run the current browser, and if not, a very recent one.
The version of CSS Grid we're using today didn't ship until 2017; a browser from 11 years ago would be using one of the non-standard versions of Grid. For example, Internet Explorer 11 was the first browser to ship a grid implementation.
> At least new JavaScript features can be "polyfilled" or whatever. Maybe sites could check for CSS feature support too?
First, not every site needs to look exactly the same in every browser; that's why progressive enhancement is a thing.
Second, there are multiple ways to create masonry-style layouts that don't require masonry support in the browser using multi-column layout or flexbox.
Third, masonry can be polyfilled using JavaScript [1].
grid-template-rows: masonry;
is going to be outdated then?
It sucks whenever browsers backtrack on a W3C standard that reached "Working Draft" status but it doesn't seem like it's gonna impact many people
Besides, it's not being "deprecated". It will continue to work as it does. We just have a better alternative that the big 3 all agreed on.
If you try to go left-to-right, you will quickly realize that at the end of each "line" it is really difficult to know where the next line starts. It is easy to accidentally start again on the same line (and inspect the same elements), or skip one accidentally. Then navigating through the elements one by one requires a considerable amount of cognitive effort, your eyes bounce up and down constantly, and you end up inspecting the same elements multiple times.
If you try to go top-to-bottom, lane by lane, you will then realize that the page also has infinite scroll and you will never go past the first lane.
jonah•1h ago