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Tell HN: Amazon has deactivated my seller account. No idea how to move forward

53•hacky_engineer•1h ago
I sell 3d printed sleeves to attach an Apple Airtag to a Samsung TV remote. But Amazon thinks I am selling a Samsung device and has deactivated me for IP violations. My listings are very clear that this is FOR a Samsung device, and not an actual Samsung device. But Amazon's automated system can't figure it out. I am following their IP guidelines for compatible products (section 6C - https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/GZUQ6GBBXQVHQKF2):

You can see one of my listings here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FHZVVL1H

Every time I listed a new product for a different TV remote, my item would be flagged, but then I would go in and make a small edit, and that seemed to trigger some sort of review, and everything would be great.

Until last week, out of nowhere, my account has been deactivated.

To reinstate my account, they asked me to submit an authorization letter from the manufacturer or brand owner authorizing me to sell their products. Well, I figured, I am the manufacturer, so I wrote an authorization letter for myself, and even got it notarized for good measure, that I am legally allowed to sell these devices. But to no avail.

I have an option to "Submit new information." But have no new information to submit, and fear if I try submitting anything else, I'll be permanently banned or something.

The funny part is that on most of the products I have listed, I am losing money, just because of the FBA costs and the advertising costs. I lost about $250 last month between two of the variants.

The sad part is that I sell a book, Computer Engineering for Babies, and do most all my sales through my website, but do get a few orders a week through amazon for the book, and am now afraid the Amazon door is closed forever.

Comments

tokyobreakfast•1h ago
Sell on Walmart Marketplace instead.

Amazon caters to the ALLCAPS Chinese scam stores. They know how to game the system and have invested a lot of resources into it. Your little home-based business doesn't stand a chance. It's a matter of time before they clone your product and undercut you by half.

kasane_teto•45m ago
Don’t worry this guys a hero, and has lots of endorphins. He’ll find a way.
mmooss•45m ago
I understand the problems described for Amazon, though that doesn't make Walmart good or without the same or different problems and advantages. What is Walmart Marketplace like for sellers? And how is the sales traffic, relatively?
mtlynch•26m ago
I used to sell on Amazon, and Walmart Marketplace reached out to me to convince me they could offer me a better seller experience than Amazon.

I was excited because I hated dealing with Amazon, but I had the call with the Walmart rep and he couldn't cite any benefit over Amazon.

Would Walmart take a lower fee? No, it would be the same as Amazon.

Would Walmart give back its fee if the customer sent the product back for a refund? No, Walmart would keep my fees and have the same perverse incentives that pushed costs onto the vendor.

It was surprising how much hubris Walmart brought to the discussion. The constant tone was, "We're Walmart, so obviously you want to work with us."

TMWNN•4m ago
I sell on both platforms.

>Would Walmart take a lower fee? No, it would be the same as Amazon.

Walmart charges less in two ways:

* No monthly membership fee. * Seemingly random fee discounts, up to and including 0%. More than once I've sold an item early in a day, then sold it again later that day with a different fee percentage.

>Would Walmart give back its fee if the customer sent the product back for a refund?

When Walmart refunds a customer, it takes from the seller's reserves exactly what was paid for the sale in the first place. No more, no less. It is Amazon that charges sellers a "refund processing fee".

While Walmart definitely has its issues, there are also many virtues vis-a-vis Amazon.

tokyobreakfast•12m ago
I can give you perspective as a customer. I can't imagine they treat sellers any differently. I quit Prime (after spending tens of thousands over the years) and Amazon immediately started treating me like a third-class citizen. Free shipping is normally 5+ days. Obscene amounts of dark patterns trying to get me to sign back up for Prime. Literally every checkout flow is a maze where I have to ensure I don't accidentally click the wrong thing or I'll find myself on the hook for a subscription.

I started giving more business to Walmart. Free shipping promos are just that, same dollar threshold as AMZN but items often arrive in a day or two (sometimes same day). They arrive by the date stated. Free shipping is the default selection. Experience with third party sellers has been good. They do shill Walmart+ (their cheaper Prime equivalent) but it's not obnoxious and no dark patterns. They do have the Chinese products but for some reason they do not pollute the search anywhere near as bad as Amazon. It's easy to filter out third party products with one click. I know stuff I'm getting is not counterfeit - they seem to have much better control over supply chain than AMZN. Many products are drop shipped direct from the manufacturer.

Unfortunately the Chinese flea market junk is Amazon's bread and butter so they have intentionally made it difficult to exclude it.

The downside is Walmart's site is a bit rough around the edges but lately Amazon is doing a great job of destroying their own site in multiple ways - like removing the ability to print real invoices.

qiller•5m ago
Big nod. I've been trying to register our company to sell customized products. It's been quite an ordeal with document rejections etc, and at the end they just said the rejection is final. No support, no appeals, no transparency. Yet those ALLCAPS companies seem have no troubles.
IChooseY0u•1h ago
I think people would be surprised what is on the internal seller forums. There is really like a huge amount of issues that Amazon fails to help with. Literally everything from onboarding to protecting sellers from refund scams.

I suspect big sellers must have dedicated account managers

DetroitThrow•1h ago
>I suspect big sellers must have dedicated account managers

They do. Large 'first party' vendors have a completely different system, basically. Even large third party vendors have a more direct line to support.

iLoveOncall•53m ago
Even pretty small ones do. My wife has worked at Amazon as an account manager both for 1P and 3P sellers, some of those don't even make $100K a year on Amazon but still have an internal contact.
busterarm•28m ago
Depends on the category. My brother runs an Amazon store that nets more than that but his category is one of the strictest on the site and he gets no support.
iLoveOncall•12m ago
I mean those programs aren't free for 3rd party sellers, so if he doesn't pay I'm not surprised, but it likely doesn't have much to do with the category.
TMWNN•11m ago
What I've heard about having the "Premium" (pay) version of Amazon account manager: It's just another layer of the same of the usual awful seller support. Since the "manager" can't actually do anything, having one is worse than not having one.
kshri24•52m ago
> I suspect big sellers must have dedicated account managers

No clue how it is elsewhere but in Amazon India, the largest seller is Amazon itself which sells under a different name. That's their model. They were under scrutiny by the Indian Government [1] [2] [3] last time I checked. Keeps registering subsidiaries under different names.

So you are basically competing with Amazon itself, which also acts as a seller in their own store.

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/business/amazoncoms-retail-p...

[2]: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/tech/amazon-flipkart-india-an...

[3]: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/amazon-i...

modeless•34m ago
When you look at a forum like that you have to realize that the actual scammers also post convincing complaints (omitting incriminating details). They likely outnumber the legitimate cases. It's all part of gaming the system.
Closi•29m ago
I used to work for a large Amazon Seller (>$100m per year revenue) who got automatically deactivated with no warning and it took them a week to get re-activated.

We are talking a very minor infraction - It was something like one of their marketing copywriters putting 'refills can be purchased on our website' on one of their thousands of listings, and Amazon delisting their entire account on the basis that this was moving customers off their platform. No warning - permenant ban that took over a week to remove - c$2m revenue loss (I've changed the details here significantly to avoid disclosing the company)

They had an account manager, but Amazon is so automated and huge that even at that scale it was a nightmare to resolve. It seemed like account managers couldn't automatically reactivate accounts or anything, they can just fill in forms internally but it seemed like they were getting automated responses back, or it was going to faceless teams etc.

Imustaskforhelp•1m ago
> We are talking a very minor infraction - It was something like one of their marketing copywriters putting 'refills can be purchased on our website' on one of their thousands of listings, and Amazon delisting their entire account on the basis that this was moving customers off their platform. No warning - permenant ban that took over a week to remove - c$2m revenue loss (I've changed the details here significantly to avoid disclosing the company)

Holy cow.

What is so wrong with writing refills can be purchased on our website.

Amazon right now feels to me like a large landlord seeking rent kicking people for no reason because they didn't like that some person spilled some water.

Probably gonna share this story online more. I mean I didn't expect the situation to be this extremely bad.

timnetworks•1h ago
this is the correct affect. you lose money while they win an imagined IP violation, then someone posts a copy of your item with text that avoids their system and they make money there too.
neilv•1h ago
I don't know how to appeal the deleted account, but regarding not triggering this check again...

Emphasize your own brands and model number, and make the other brands more clearly a description, in the Amazon item title?

  FooCorp TagTeam S (sleeve mount holder to attach Apple AirTag to Samsung TV remote)
(Background on a simple filter: On eBay, it seemed like someone told counterfeit sellers that all they had to do was to copy&paste the string "For" in front of the brand name and model number, and then they could sell counterfeits. And sometimes black out the counterfeited brand name in the photos. So an item title might be of the format "For <brand> <model>", and mean it's definitely a counterfeit or knockoff of "<brand> <model>".)
insuranceguru•1h ago
It sounds like you hit a keyword filter. Even if you edit the listing, the word 'Samsung' in the title or description probably has a hard-coded weight that flags it as counterfeit, regardless of context (like 'compatible with').

Have you tried escalating via jeff@amazon.com? It used to be a meme, but people still report getting actual human eyes on their case that way when the automated Seller Central loop fails.

WalterBright•50m ago
> Every time I listed a new product for a different TV remote, my item would be flagged, but then I would go in and make a small edit, and that seemed to trigger some sort of review, and everything would be great.

They may have a filter for people who exceed a certain number of flags?

rdtsc•29m ago
That’s the first thing that jumped out to me. He was flagged multiple times, tweaked the listing and passed. But it may not be a free pass every time. Eventually multiple flags added up to something - a ban. So may not be Samsung per se as anything special just hitting some flag limit.
benj111•38m ago
If it's anything like eBay, just open another account. I've had 2 eBay accounts randomly closed for no stated or discernable reason. I've just opened new accounts. Now I have separate buyer and seller accounts so at least I have an account with history, if/when my seller account gets locked.
nikkwong•33m ago
Good luck. Amazon banned my seller account 7 years ago because my wife, who was also an amazon seller, used our shared CC (which has my name on it, although she's an authorized user) to pay her $45/month seller fee. The account had $48,000 in it at the time I was banned, and I was never able to get the money back; after an endless number of hours of pleads with their teams, mails to jeff@amazon, working on it from the inside, etc. etc. Be happy that your financial loss was limited.

edit: I posted about it on HN at the time [1]. Apparently looks like at that time I thought I was delisted for a bad review. To be honest, I still don't know why I was delisted, because at least at that time, Amazon would refuse to tell you why you were delisted. You just had to come up with reasons why you may have been, submit an appeal, and then they would come back to you with "sorry, that's not a sufficient appeal". So then you'd have to come up with another reason why you may have been delisted and try to submit another appeal (which itself was a grueling process, for which you would have to wait days/weeks for a response). It was beyond baffling as to why they would operate in that way; it was as if they were trying their absolute hardest to immiserate sellers in the most draconian and malevolent way possible. It was that bad. It was unbelievable to me at the time, and still today, that they could treat their sellers that badly. Yeah, fuck amazon. Seriously.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19551590

globular-toast•30m ago
Surely that's enough money to go to small claims or something?
nikkwong•26m ago
I live in Seattle, and in WA state that would put it beyond the limit for a small claims case. Idk, I tried to contact lawyers to take the case and they sent letters to Amazon which Amazon never responded to. I was also going through a pretty serious health battle at the time and so couldn't really devote full attention to it. Now that things are a bit better, I feel like it's so far in the past that I don't know if I would have a reasonable claim so I sort of just let it be.
kelnos•17m ago
In general that kind of money is well above the limit for small claims.
njarboe•29m ago
I imagine you had good reason not to, but this is a situation for a lawsuit. Did you sue Amazon to get your money?
nikkwong•24m ago
Amazon has some terms in their TOS that you have to go through mediation on their terms—I tried to get the process started but could never get them to respond when I/we contacted their legal teams. I probably should have pressed harder, I'm sure there was some way to do it, but I wasn't able to figure it out at the time.
kelnos•18m ago
I feel like if you've made a good-faith effort to start the arbitration process they require you to do, and they ignore you, that is grounds for a lawsuit. And I doubt a judge would look favorably upon Amazon in that case.
nikkwong•14m ago
You're totally right. At the time I didn't have much money for a lawyer, but perhaps I should look into it again now.
kazinator•32m ago
Suppose that an overseas scammer wanted to sell a copy of your product. Would they be begging Amazon to reinstante some closed account? No, they would be using half a dozen accounts to present identical listings.

when in Rome ...

ejo4041•23m ago
Amazon Seller for 10 years here. I haven't had my account shutdown, but some tips that could help. At the top, your brand is listed as "Generic", this is because you do not have a brand registered. The way to have a brand registered with Amazon is to first get a Trademark for your brand. This will also help you fight against counterfeiters on Amazon that could try to sell their own version under your listing. In that case, they would need a signed letter from your brand. I don't know that it will help in your specific case, but it could give you more credibility with Amazon. It will cost a little money to get the TM, so that's a decision to make if it's worth it or not.

Have you tried just having a single trademarked brand in your title, rather than Airtag and Samsung or changing the wording at all? Something like ... holder for Airtag, compatible with Samsung. How about targeting other popular brands like ... holder for Airtag, compatible with Apple TV?

Here's another brand that has a combination of the above suggestions: https://www.amazon.com/AhaStyle-Protective-Silicone-Compatib... They use "... for ... compatible with", and they also have a registered brand.

throwaway150•17m ago
> I haven't had my account shutdown,

You have been lucky so far, but there is no guarantee that luck will not run out tomorrow. The algorithms making these decisions are not open to review. They are opaque, and there is no way to know when something in your account might be flagged as suspicious.

> but some tips that could help.

I know you are trying to help, so thank you for that. So don't take this personally when I say this. I'm just frustrated with how things have turned out.

It is absurd that we have reached a point where people must rely on unofficial and unverified tips just to possibly avoid losing access to their source of income. It seems incredibly unhealthy for a market this important to be governed in this way.

ejo4041•12m ago
I don't disagree with most of your comment, although I don't think my tips are questionable, they are well within Amazon's guidelines. I have been through counterfeiter issues on my account before and very familiar with the brand registry process. Changing listing titles also happens on a regular basis to chase trends in search results. My recommendations are pretty much directly from the cited guidelines in sellercentral.
throwaway150•8m ago
Sorry, I didn't mean questionable. I meant unverified and I updated my comment soon before you posted yours. But looks like my "unverified" complaint was wrong too? Do you know if the seller guidelines doc is published somewhere? I tried searching but I see multiple results and cannot tell which one of them is the actual deal. Curious to find out what kind of guidelines they officially recommend. Could be a great resource for the community.

Is this the one? https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/help/hub/reference/extern...

ejo4041•3m ago
No problem, I was trying to not take it personally.

OP linked the source, but you need a seller account to view https://sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/GZUQ6GBB...

Here is the relevant section copy pasted (which his original listing is pretty close to adhering to, it's really just the second brand mention which I was concerned about):

" When making truthful statements that a product is compatible with a trademarked product. For example, if you offer a cable that is compatible with the Kindle e-reader, you can use the brand name “Kindle” to indicate that compatibility in the text of your detail page. You cannot use a logo to indicate compatibility, only the brand name. Any statement you make about compatibility must be true. If you want to indicate the compatibility of your product with a product of a different brand in the product title, build your product title using the format below, taking account of the Amazon Brand Name Policy. If you do not apply this format to your product title, your listing may be removed as potentially trademark infringing.

Title format for branded compatible products

[Your Product’s Brand Name] + [Product Name] + "for"/''compatible with''/''fits''/''intended for'' + [Brand of Main Product] + [Main Product Name] + (other product title elements, if applicable)

Examples:

Xandu USB charging cable, compatible with AmazonBasics speaker TonTon Sleeve intended for Kindle Fire Title format for generic compatible products

"Generic" + [Product Name] + "for"/”compatible with”/”fits”/”intended for” + [Brand of Main Product] + [Main Product Name] + (other product title elements, if applicable)

Example:

Generic Replacement filter for AmazonBasics Waterfilter A3

Note: When making genuine claims that a product is compatible with a trademarked product, use either of these terms that indicate compatibility as listed above, in the bullet point and product description as well. "

throwaway150•22m ago
*smh*

Every time I hear a story like this (and there's one like every month) I wonder how we ended up here. The internet was meant to be this place where anyone could set up a website, run a business, and reach customers directly. Instead it has turned into a collection of walled gardens, where your existence and livelihood depend on the whims of an opaque algorithm.

Fortunately in my country Amazon does not have the level of market control it has in the US and some other places. People still walk or drive to local shops and when they order something for delivery they usually do so from their websites.

But reading many of these HN threads gives the impression that in the US and elsewhere Amazon controls a huge share of the market. If it functions as such a powerful exchange for both merchants and buyers, should there not be regulation to prevent injustices like this?

rorylaitila•16m ago
Don't use other companies brand names in your product titles. Regardless of what other people get away with. Regardless of what is in the Amazon fine print. Don't use trademark logos in your product images. Make your own brand name. Make it "compatible with" in the product description.
binarysolo•4m ago
> The sad part is that I sell a book, Computer Engineering for Babies

Oh no way, I bought your book (I think via kickstarter?). :)

First off -- Amazon's super bureaucratic so all of their processes require a certain language and esclation path. I'll have to ask my team's support specialist on what she thinks, but my gut is telling me your language needs to be "compatible with Samsung" or "Samsung compatible" instead of "for... Samsung TV remote".

I've been doing Amazon for 13 years and have a team + a few brands I own in the ecosystem -- just some basic tips:

1. Get brand registry (or find a maker buddy and put it under their brand) for listing control. Generic is not the way to go for listing control -- you need brand registry. Then you can edit away under your own brand.

2. You shouldn't be losing any money doing this. If you're doing 3D printer stuff you should expect your cost to be like 5-10%, Amazon takes 40-50% between all fees, ads around 10%, and the rest is labor/margin... and if your numbers aren't there you need to figure out what's wrong.

I have lots more thoughts but I realize this can become an essay haha. Feel free to ping me if you need some help, loved your books. :)

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