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Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/01/tesla-wants-recurring-revenue-discontinues-autopilot-in-favor-of-fsd/
211•CharlesW•1h ago

Comments

7e•1h ago
Elon Musk wants you to pay for something which might kill you or someone else, all while not accepting any liability. So you still have to do the work, but with added danger. This guy is delusional.
ben_w•1h ago
"Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi

- George Lucas

kccoder•1h ago
I'm going to go with the fool being followed. At least the following fool realizes that they need guidance, but just chose the wrong leader.
scottyah•1h ago
This sounds like almost every other product I buy, except it's designed to eventually save a lot of lives? Imagine being mad that a kitchen knife has no liability for what you do with it, or a motorcycle.
FireBeyond•56m ago
Imagine if professional medical equipment designed to save lives had no liability clauses?

Except they do.

Which is why there's FDA certification and regulation and the Lifepak 15s I used as a paramedic cost around $40,000.

Mercedes was also willing to put their money where their mouth was and accept liability for vehicle software issues. (Cue here the Tesla stans talking about "how limited" that was. Almost perhaps as if it was for a good reason and not "if it compiles, ship it").

ericd•43m ago
It sounds like the point you're making is that manufacturers taking liability will make all of this unaffordable for normal people, similar to how medicine has become unaffordable?

I don't think that's actually your point, but it sort of sounds like it.

FireBeyond•38m ago
There are probably elements of that but my read of the post I replied to was "why on earth would you expect manufacturers of equipment to accept liability for misuse?" (I actually agree about misuse, but malfunction is not the same.)

And "in the context of something that is designed to save lives"... well, absolutely, many manufacturers do and will and even "have to".

dmitrygr•1h ago
This is similar to GM‘s Super Cruise, which is similar in functionality and also a monthly subscription.
rootusrootus•42m ago
GM Super Cruise (and Ford's Blue Cruise) is hands-free, autosteer is not. Ford has an equivalent of autosteer available without a subscription, I would guess GM does too.
coolspot•1h ago
$99/mo is for FSD, not just lane keeping.

The article doesn’t explain what happens to simple lane leeping. Surely it should be free like in any other car (like my Volvo).

dawnerd•1h ago
Lane keep is autopilot which is going away (for new cars). FSD doesn't have basic lane keep. The real question will be what happens to "legacy" cars with autopilot.
loourr•1h ago
Lane keeping is a default feature for free on all tesla's and this article doesn't say it's going away.
dawnerd•1h ago
It’s autopilot and yes on current models. New models will not get it. That’ll be FSD only.
giobox•1h ago
Its being reported elsewhere that future new teslas will not have basic autopilot (the name Tesla use for the standard lane keep assist they offer) at all, the only way to get any form of lane keep assist will be to subscribe to FSD. The wording in the ars article linked here does a terrible job of explaining the change. Existing Teslas which already have basic Autopilot will still continue to have the feature.

New Teslas will now only have "Traffic Aware Cruise Control" as standard without lane assist, i.e. keeps pace with traffic and can stop/start, but user still has to provide steering input.

johnneville•59m ago
I don't see this mentioned in the configurator for a new model 3 on the tesla site right now. Under "Driver Assistance" it describes "Traffic-aware cruise control" only. Under "Active Safety" it includes "Lane Departure Avoidance" which is separate from the "Autosteer" feature described under the "Autopilot" section. It's possible they will choose to fold autosteer into the lane departure avoidance but there's been no announcement of that. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_il/GUID-ADA05DF...
hermanzegerman•57m ago
It does

Under the new 2026 pricing structure, Autosteer has been removed. *New vehicles will now only ship with Traffic-Aware Cruise Control*. Buyers who want the vehicle to steer itself on highways must now pay for the software that was once standard.

https://electrek.co/2026/01/23/tesla-cuts-standard-autopilot...

rootusrootus•59m ago
> The real question will be what happens to "legacy" cars with autopilot.

Tesla cannot take anything away that was on the Monroney sticker. This includes AP.

thefourthchime•55m ago
Autopilot / FSD was a mess. Autopilot is very old tech and people confusing "self driving" with it, which it's not. We'll see how many pony up for FSD, but I think the play is to force people to try it.
hibikir•37m ago
They handed people free trials before, which is using the carrot and not the stick. Around where I live, with HW3, the last trial made it clear that it was just not worth it at all, as there's key areas around my house where intervention was mandatory.
dawnerd•1h ago
He said the price will increase as it gets more capable. Funny though, they've lowered the price of FSD over the years...
rootusrootus•50m ago
He lies so consistently, it continues to impress me how effectively he controls TSLA investors.
stefan_•1h ago
Is the article confused or will there literally be no lane-keeping without the subscription? Because nowadays every car rental place bottom of the barrel Kia has lane-keeping.
loourr•1h ago
it's click-bait, the lane keeping is free and is not going away
alistairSH•1h ago
Do you have a source for that? I thought all of Tesla's "default" driver assistance was part of Autopilot, which is going away. I haven't seen any mention of decoupling various features from Autopilot (with some remaining free, just without the branding).
cbsks•1h ago
Tesla’s “autosteer” is significantly more advanced than the “lane keeping” feature I’ve seen in rental cars, or my own 2023 Jeep. My understanding is that autosteer will actively keep the car centered in the middle of the lane, while the “lane keeping” I’ve experienced will only adjust the steering when you approach the lane edge, which pin balls you back and forth like a drunk driver.
FireBeyond•1h ago
In mid tier and premium tier cars, lane keeping is either implicitly or explicitly lane centering. My Navigator calls it lane keeping but it is centering, and my Audi specifically calls out lane centering.
jeffbee•55m ago
My experience with that brand specifically is they should call it "lane oscillating".
bigstrat2003•6m ago
That is not universally true. It's lane keeping in my wife's Volvo, and it sucks in exactly the way described up-thread.
sublinear•54m ago
Jeep and all the other Stellantis brands have the worst lane assist and worst tech options on the market, and the trim level on any rental is going to be as basic as they can get away with.
netsharc•49m ago
I have a 2020 Alfa Romeo (interestingly also a Stellantis car like your Jeep), it has "follow the lane" feature. For the edge of the lane, it can either vibrate as a warning or force you off it, I have it set to vibrate.
stefan_•45m ago
I went with that example because I had a Kia Sportage from Hertz and it had lane centering (not just the thing that detects you are deviating from the lane). It did want you to touch the steering wheel but that's just cheaper driver monitoring.
ipv6ipv4•1h ago
In light of recent trends, Tesla is signaling supreme confidence in its prospects by already pursuing enshittification.
adamkittelson•1h ago
They’ve been enshittifying for the better part of a decade. The model 3 launching without rain sensors and taking years to get any where near comparable with cameras comes to mind.
rootusrootus•56m ago
It still is not anywhere close with cameras. My guess is that it will not ever get better than it is today.
siliconc0w•1h ago
Article is unclear but if this is saying you can't even get basic ADAS w/out $99/mo that is a pretty big deal, especially if it's applied to existing cars.

Basic stay-in-line and start/stop following in traffic has become pretty standard for almost a decade at this point and paywalling it now would be outrageous. I have a 2017 car that does this.

tokyobreakfast•1h ago
Basic ADAS is government-mandated. Even shitbox Toyotas with traditional ignition keys have it for free.
rootusrootus•57m ago
Do you have a source for that? I'm not aware of any regulation requiring ADAS. Even automatic emergency breaking is not yet required for a few more years.
hermanzegerman•56m ago
Well Teslas now ship without the Lane Keeping. So the Toyota Shitbox has better ADAS
enragedcacti•41m ago
It is in the EU but in the US ADAS won't be mandated until 2029. It would tank your IIHS rating though and all major mfgs have met a voluntary pledge to have >95% light duty vehicles ship with autobraking by 2023: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/automakers-fulfill-autobrak...
resfirestar•1h ago
They're offering 50% off the subscription to people who used to have Enhanced Autopilot [1]. As I predicted when the CEO's compensation plan had a part tied to FSD subscriptions, they are going to push more people onto it by bundling more features and cutting the price.

[1] https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/2014751111803032049

boringg•1h ago
Show me the incentives i'll show you the outcomes.
fc417fc802•16m ago
Reminds me of when an ISP offered me a discount if I would agree to sign up with their partnered TV service. I agreed on the condition that I didn't have to rent a box. But you can't use the service without a box ... ? Who cares, I got a discount.
nxtfari•1h ago
My guess is Tesla is desperately in need of Q1 revenue and they want people to scarcity buy FSD lifetime @ $8K. Otherwise the strategy doesn’t make any sense. They’re saying FSD and basic Autopilot will go behind subscription and that subscription prices are expected to go up. Basically laying out that they’re planning to lock you into a subscription and then price gouge. It’s so transparent that I think the point isn’t actually the gouge but to make that threat move lifetime FSD sales.
thefourthchime•59m ago
Tesla is going to stop selling FSD outright on Feb 14th. It will be subscription only.
scottyah•55m ago
1. There's a CA lawsuit against the FSD name, Tesla has to fix it by Feb 14th (the last day FSD is being sold). I wonder if it'll just be a rebrand for the new service. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/news-and-media/news-releases/d...

2. Elon's Trillion Dollar Payout is tied to a certain number of FSD Subscriptions.

3. Some consumers were sold that they would get hardware upgrades for FSD. I'm pretty sure Tesla would like to minimize that, and I expect incentives for those people to purchase new vehicle without FSD.

4. Subscriptions drive our economy, I don't know the details but it seems like every company wants subscriptions over one time purchases.

I honestly don't think they want a lot of people with lifetime FSD, it's disappearing without a lot of news.

lotsofpulp•50m ago
> 4. Subscriptions drive our economy, I don't know the details but it seems like every company wants subscriptions over one time purchases.

Every person I know wants a subscription, too. Who wouldn’t want a nest egg throwing off passive income?

CuriouslyC•47m ago
A lot of entrepreneurs hate the saasification of everything, and don't want to create sub services. They tow the line because investors LOVE subs and will look at you like you're insane if you disagree.
palata•11m ago
> Every person I know wants a subscription, too.

You mean consumer? I genuinely cannot understand why anyone would buy a car or a bed or a fridge that requires a subscription. That's beyond me.

I do understand why companies want to screw consumers, obviously.

johnnyanmac•24m ago
4. The details are pretty straightforward. Continual passive income is more reliable than the boom bust cycles that is buying cars. The latter requires you finding more and more customers. The former is extracting more money from an assumedly commuted customer.

In theory, subscriptions are cheaper for users as well when done right and it works better with how people are compensated. But as usual, greed consumes all and if everything is a bill, that's more ways to eat at your long term wealth.

In other words: you will own nothing and like it.

palata•9m ago
> 2. Elon's Trillion Dollar Payout is tied to a certain number of FSD Subscriptions.

That explains things.

rootusrootus•55m ago
My guess is they made FSD subscriptions a requirement for Elon's big compensation package.
kotaKat•38m ago
10 million active subscriptions. It’s one of the lower targets to meet.
BeetleB•6m ago
> Otherwise the strategy doesn’t make any sense.

The price is high, but it's not unique to Tesla. Ford has Blue Cruise, which is about $500/year.

People can, however, opt for openpilot/comma (https://comma.ai/openpilot), which random Youtubers tested and say it's about as good as Tesla's FSD, but has a simple one time fee of $1K But whether you want to trust open source is up to you.

moomoo11•1h ago
Taycan Turbo GT mogs any Plaid cult member.
wing-_-nuts•1h ago
These sort of shenanigans for even basic lanekeeping makes a very strong case for more open source solutions like comma
greenpresident•1h ago
Pressing the lane assistant button on a Mercedes steering wheel and getting a “you’ll need to activate your subscription first” message really drove up my blood pressure.
hermanzegerman•59m ago
You know you can just buy it?
greenpresident•51m ago
It’s built in. There is a dedicated button for it. Hard to justify imho.
b40d-48b2-979e•36m ago
They already bought the car.
whynotmaybe•23m ago
I'm wondering whether it's a generational vision and that the concept of ownership of software with hardware is slowly becoming obsolete.

Every young adult I know uses a subscription for everything I used to buy. Even though they own the device on which they consume it.

Spotify for cd's, Netflix-Disney-Amazon for vhs and dvd's, Udemy-Masterclass for books.

hermanzegerman•11m ago
Yes, despite knowing that it's not included. It's like hitting yourself and complaining afterwards about it
GoatInGrey•26m ago
In this case, they bought and currently own the sensors and hardware that the ML model is stored on. Moreover, the software runs locally.

It's a silly example, but you can think of it as buying a house and the ceiling lights requiring a subscription to turn on.

As an aside, I wonder how long this can keep up before it begins affecting laws around theft and property damage if the person operating, storing, insuring, and maintaining the physical objects don't contractually own them. Is Mercedes a victim if the LKAS camera gets damaged or stolen, rather than you?

hermanzegerman•12m ago
I mean they surely knew this before they bought their car and bought it anyway. So I don't get the complaint

Are you sure they bought the ML Models?

The Hardware is inside because it's required for the emergency lane keeping, but I wouldn't be surprised if the OEMs would have a deal with the supplier where they are paid more if this feature gets enabled

wolvoleo•45m ago
And the EU companies are surprised a lot of people buy Chinese now.

Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them.

burnte•29m ago
> Screw the subscriptions. I don't care how much the shareholders want them.

Agreed. The investor requirements of any company mean nothing to me as the consumer.

moolcool•8m ago
Woah, which model was this in?
nabakin•53m ago
And right to repair
rootusrootus•53m ago
My Comma 4 arrives today, and I think it will be great (using it with my Lightning, not my Model 3), but I think it is just a temporary solution that is effectively a dead man walking. The latest cars are not usable with a Comma and likely will never be, with manufacturers locking down the CANBUS with encryption.
fc417fc802•12m ago
Literal anticompetitive behavior in the name of safety. The more of them that move to subscription services the better the chance the scheme gets legally challenged I figure.
foolfoolz•52m ago
it’s a standard feature on all models for many brands today
ews•46m ago
Comma can be installed on a tesla, I've seen a couple of them already driving around the Bay Area
mikkupikku•40m ago
Very strong case for keeping your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and drive the car yourself.
cruffle_duffle•1h ago
$99/month plus tax is a pretty fucking steep price for any kind of subscription! Holy cow!
Analemma_•49m ago
If you have do a lot of driving, $99/mo. seems like a decent price to have the car drive itself, especially if it got to the Waymo point where absolutely no driver attention was needed and you could watch Netflix the whole time. The issue with FSD isn't the price, it's that no matter what Elon and his fanboys say, it doesn't bloody work and Waymo is blowing them out of the water in capability.
eldaisfish•11m ago
The “if” here is lifting many metric tonnes of assumptions.
jdsully•45m ago
I sign up if I want to do a long road trip and cancel after. Worked great for that.
MarkusWandel•1h ago
Wait a minute. My recent-ish car has LKAS. It recognizes white lines (or possibly curbs too) and if both boundaries of the lane are recongized, will steer for you - for 10 seconds maybe, before it nags you provide some steering input. But in those 10 seconds it's perfectly capable of smoothly steering around bends in the road on its own. And it is a useful safety feature even if only nudging the steering wheel while you're holding it.

So you don't get even that in a Tesla without (now) ponying up $$? Something that's a standard feature in my non cloud connected (or connectable!) "so last century" fossil fuel vehicle?

thewebguyd•46m ago
Yeah I don't get Tesla's move here. Lane Keep Assist has been a standard feature in most new cars, EV or not, starting around ~2019ish. IIRC, the EU now has regulations mandating lane keep assist in all new vehicles sold.

Heck, a cheap base model Maza 3 I rented had lane keep assist.

Tesla only stands to lose by gatekeeping what's now a basic feature behind a paywall.

b40d-48b2-979e•39m ago
It checks out with all the other awful software changes they're making like whatever "curvature assist" is that randomly brakes where it doesn't need to, or when it gets confused about what road I'm on while on the freeway and suddenly drops my 75mph cruise control to 55mph and slams the brakes.

I miss having a dumb cruise control.

toast0•45m ago
Is your car really not connected/connectable?

I have a 2014 car that's connectable but no driver assistance; I had a 2017 (delivered mid 2016) with lane keeping and emergency braking which seemed pretty new and exciting, and it's connectable, all I would need to do is pay a big annual fee and also setup a 3g CDMA network. Couldn't do much with either if it's connected; I pulled the 3g modem from the 2014 when it was convenient cause I was worried it was using power while off.

Not that lane keeping needs a connection, just that I'm surprised they put it on a car without a modem.

MarkusWandel•30m ago
To my knowledge it is completely offline. The fanciest version of it (Honda Civic) has wifi and will connect to your house wifi when in range (and also do wireless Android Auto) but mine doesn't have it. This one has no cloud features and if there's a SIM card lurking deeply in there somehwere, it certainly isn't going to facilitate reaching down to monitor me in the car (the hardware isn't there, aside from the microphone for bluetooth) or change features on me.
fc417fc802•24m ago
I won't claim to know for certain but want to point out that if there's a SIM card in the head unit then it can upload anything it can see on the CAN bus which is literally every sensor in the vehicle. I guess the only thing likely to be missing is a cockpit video feed.
fc417fc802•29m ago
Even if it doesn't offer the user an option to connect AFAIK approximately all vehicles from the past 15 years or so are part of the internet of shit. They send telemetry back to the manufacturer.
enragedcacti•5m ago
2026 CR-V and Civic both have trims with ADAS but no modem: https://mygarage.honda.com/s/hondalink-product-compatibility
noahmbarr•44m ago
IMO; you should try the product. The car basically drives me everywhere with no interventions, including on errands around SF. Just plug in where via the Google Maps view.

I’ve been paying the monthly for a while. Very worth it to me.

verdverm•35m ago
It could be a better product, but that doesn't mean it's a better purchase if you care about the morals of the companies and leaders you do business with
GoatInGrey•34m ago
How does lane-keeping assist drive you everywhere, or plug in to Google Maps? That doesn't make any sense to me. Are you talking about a separate feature or something?
Retric•31m ago
“basically” is doing some heavy lifting here as they aren’t good enough to let you ignore the road without taking serious risks. So you’re stuck in the drivers seat paying attention to traffic, but you get to mostly avoid turning the steering wheel, yay what an awesome improvement definitely worth 8k or 100$/month

IMO adaptive crude control that works down to 0MPH is still the sweet spot.

MarkusWandel•22m ago
Also standard equipment now (in my mid-level Honda Civic). However once gone to zero, it won't roll again until you nudge the throttle pedal. Also, just like lane keeping it "needs supervision". Once someone braked hard up ahead to do an almost-missed left turnoff, and I let the adaptive cruise control do what it does. And it missed it and I had to brake manually, fairly hard too!

But for driving in slow traffic with no passing lane for the next half hour (Highway 7 between Perth and Marmora, for Ontarians) it's a godsend. Just let it handle it and chill.

Someone1234•24m ago
I have two questions:

- Is it unsupervised?

- Has legal liability shifted as a result of the system being the driver?

Because I feel like the answer needs to be "yes" for this claim to be accurate. If the answer isn't "yes," then you're still meant to be fully engaged with driving and are liable for any accidents that occur.

square_usual•13m ago
First, you're talking about a different product, FSD vs Autopilot.

Second, I have a 2025 Model 3, and even with the latest v14.2.2 FSD I had an intervention rate of roughly every ten miles in Washington DC/VA suburbs. I shudder to think what it would do if I didn't pay attention, so I don't think it's an improvement over me driving myself.

nutjob2•6m ago
> The car basically drives me everywhere with no interventions

I believe you, but occasionally it will try to kill you.

burningChrome•23m ago
Was watching OPLive last week. Every week they have a segment called "Triple Play" where they have law enforcement send them videos of crazy chases and other interesting experiences.

This last week they had a guy who had completely passed out in his car and was fast asleep at the wheel. A state trooper pulled up alongside it and could see the guy slumped over his wheel. Apparently the car was essentially weaving back and forth between the lane lines because the car had LKAS enabled, effectively keeping the car from driving off the road.

The state trooper followed the car for several miles trying to decide what he should do. He tried several times by running his lights and sirens, honking, etc to no avail. He finally found a safe spot and successfully pitted the car to a stop. During the pit, the man suddenly woke up - for obvious reasons.

They later found out he had been working 22 hours straight and then was driving to his GF's house several hours away for the weekend and was just exhausted and fell asleep at the wheel.

MarkusWandel•16m ago
I've never actually tested what happens if you ignore the "steering input required" nags from LKAS. Does it truly keep driving at cruise control speed? I assumed it would eventually slow to a stop.

As for the safety feature. I inherited (literally) a second car that's 10 years older than the primary one. You get used to LKAS. I was driving a long distance in the older one while somewhat overtired and had several rumble strip excursions that would not have happened in the LKAS-equipped car. And for the asleep guy in the parent post, it may have made the difference between still being alive and dead in head-on collision or rollover.

jetbalsa•7m ago
My 2021 Toyota corolla will fault out and stop steering for you.
t0mas88•14m ago
If that's true: What a total idiot in the police car.

With a car on lane keeping / cruise control you could slow down in front of it all the way to a stop and it will gladly stop behind you.

barbazoo•5m ago
That might work!

> What a total idiot in the police car.

It's important to make sure we have all the context before making a judgement like this. My rule of thumb is that if I think something is obviously stupid, I'm probably missing something.

BeetleB•5m ago
> With a car on lane keeping / cruise control you could slow down in front of it all the way to a stop and it will gladly stop behind you.

Blue Cruise, and I assume Tesla's FSD as well, will simply change the lane and go around you.

If the guy had a simple LKAS and adaptive cruise control on, then yes, you're right.

jmb99•6m ago
> He finally found a safe spot and successfully pitted the car to a stop.

No such thing as a safe spot to PIT someone, ever, let alone while they're asleep at the wheel. This is a great example of why people hate all cops, anyone with two brain cells to rub together would get in front of the car and gradually slow to a stop.

borroka•19m ago
I have a Subaru with driver's assistance. Basically you input speed and distance from the vehicle ahead, and the car turns, accelerates, and brakes. It disengages quite often, in particular when the lanes are not clearly marked.

I used it a couple of times, but then I stopped; for me, as a driver/passenger, it has very little value. Yes, maybe I can lower my attention from 100% to 95%, but it does not make much difference: I need to keep my hands on the wheel, it disengages at random (for me) times.

True autopilot is very different.

throwawa14223•1h ago
Just like all subscriptions this kills my interest in it. Tech is only interesting if it isn’t locked in a corporate data center.
dylan604•44m ago
you must be really bored with pretty much all the popular tech today then
jjulius•23m ago
... and? Nothing wrong with not buying into what's popular.
dylan604•22m ago
and nothing. it's a comment on how everything closed tech by the platforms, not a knock on being bored with that fact. i full agree and do not participate on those platforms.
YY59487598347•58m ago
Do BYD and other Chinese EVs have this insane subscription scheme for basic features on their cars, or is that only a feature of North American/European manufacturers?
TacoCommander•41m ago
I am also curious about this, how does the average person in China feel about subscriptions?
loloquwowndueo•23m ago
BYD is available in a lot of countries outside China.
SilverElfin•12m ago
It looks to be completely free on most BYD models - as in no one time fee or subscription fee, but just part of the car:

https://insideevs.com/news/750244/byd-smart-driving-cheap/

palata•3m ago
Once BYD is the most popular car, they will complain that it's probably because of the Chinese government manipulating the people. But the truth is that I would happily buy a BYD car knowing that it's a good product, with no goddamn subscriptions.
ModernMech•55m ago
This is part of the long con. They promised FSD almost a decade ago and as their competitors eclipse them, it's clear Tesla is a) behind and b) will never catch up.

So instead of admitting they were wrong all along and doing what's necessary to catch up (add LiDAR to their sensor stack), they are going to quietly "pivot" Tesla to a "ai and robotics" company, with the monthly fee they'll continue to bilk anyone who is still enthralled enough to believe them on their FSD grift, but they will run the same scam as they did with FSD (Musk will say "humanoid robots for the home in in 3 years", yet we will still be waiting for them to be useful in the year 2035)

rootusrootus•47m ago
I'm not any kind of Elon fan, but I think it is a little more nuanced than that. FSD is definitely more advanced than any regular competition. It is not as capable as Waymo, that is for sure, but that is not a car you can own.
ModernMech•41m ago
Their vision-only system will never live up to promises without inventing an AGI-level inference engine. Maintaining an aura that they are capable of doing this is part of the con. A kind of, shangri-la promise of harmonious one-true vision system that to date has not come true despite promises of its impending coming.
Zigurd•11m ago
Apart from the technical limitations of FSD, Elon hasn't thought through the business model. Claiming that Tesla cars will be capable of turning into robotaxis seemed plausible a decade ago before all the negative externalities of Airbnb became widely known.

Waymo isn't just the Waymo Driver technology and sensor suite. It's charging and cleaning depots. It's product support both for the customer and the vehicle that scales. It's an insane amount of LiDAR acquired 3-D mapping data, plus real time data from Google maps and navigation.

Meanwhile Tesla has replaced some of the drivers sitting in the front seat with chase cars. Just to make the technically correct claim that the cars are no longer supervised by someone in the car.

linuxftw•54m ago
I don't see what the issue is. No one is forced to buy a tesla, no pay for the subscription. It seems likely that self-driving features will require ongoing maintenance and updates for the next several years, it's not like it's 0 cost to them to develop and distribute the software.

I'm not a Tesla fan, I will never own a fully self driving car, but I don't have a problem with a company charging money for features that consumers want. There are about a dozen other car manufacturers in the US alone that can sell self driving cars without a subscription if they want to.

rootusrootus•43m ago
> self-driving features will require ongoing maintenance and updates for the next several years

Autopilot is not self-driving, it is lane-centering with traffic aware cruise control. It has not gotten any maintenance or updates in years, as far as we can tell.

Identical functionality is available from many competitors with no subscription. This is a noteworthy decision for Tesla because AP has long been one of their defining features, dropping it is a big step backward just as the market caught up.

linuxftw•10m ago
Well, the market will decide if dropping it in favor of a subscription-based upgrade is worth it or not. Not sure why anyone would be upset, this all seems perfectly reasonable.
cosmicgadget•27m ago
They are taking away a standard feature for most modern cars as a sad way to push more people into their shitty CaaS model.

Nobody is forced to buy a Tesla, correct, but that isn't a requirement for newsworthiness.

tra3•53m ago
I would gladly pay $99/month if this was honest FSD. I started tracking my time consistently since end of December and in the past 2 weeks I spend 23 hours driving. That's already only $4/hour.

I haven't been keeping up with the progress in this space. Last I heard, Benz introduced some sort of self driving feature AND accepted full liability for it (whereas Tesla does not). How does Benz's self driving compare to Teslas?

starik36•44m ago
We've had FSD trial for 4 months in the middle of last year. I work from home so I can't really justify $100 a month. However, we did take a few trips (about 60 miles in each direction) to see family through downtown LA.

I was honestly stunned by how far the tech has come. It basically drove us door to door without a single intervention.

tra3•14m ago
I talked to about 3 people about this that have personal experience with Tesla autopilot and that's been the feedback. So where's the gap? What's the problem?
AuryGlenz•42m ago
Benz's full self driving is only up to 40mph and only when it has a car to follow in front of you.
Nemi•24m ago
When you said this, lemming's all jumping off a cliff came to mind...
tirant•7m ago
And temperatures over 0 degrees Celsius with no rain. I tried it.
finolex1•41m ago
Mercedes' feature has been sunset. It only ever worked in good weather on a limited set of motorways, below a certain speed, and with a guide vehicle in front of it l.

https://www.electrive.com/2026/01/12/mercedes-pauses-level-3...

tirant•8m ago
That’s basically what SAE L3 and above levels of autonomy mean. The manufacturer takes full responsibility of the driving while the function is active.

I drove Mercedes and BMW L3 offering. Both had a really restricted ODD (Operational Design Domain) for it to be of much use outside high traffic situations on an Autobahn. It was restricted to good weather and speeds of around 60km/h. Basic all conditions under which their set of sensors and CPUs would work optimally.

But that was 2021 technology. L4 level of autonomy will be in the market during the next 4/5 years, no doubt. And that will be a game changer for anyone driving any significant amount of time. Sleeping, reading, watching a movie or just working on the laptop will be possible. And the manufacturer will take full responsibility of the driving while the functions are active.

drak0n1c•4m ago
There are unsupervised HW4 Tesla robotaxis in Austin open to public use as of yesterday. Lemonade Insurance announced an FSD plan where the price is half the market rate while using FSD. So unless there are specific regulatory barriers for personal vehicles unsupervised should be available for their latest gen personal cars sometime this year.
seshagiric•51m ago
It's a tradeoff, too early to say if it's a dumb move.

Side A: Tesla can grow FSD subscription revenue by making FSD + Autopilot completely based on subscription. Lot more people use Autopilot than FSD. In the happy path such users will pay the subscription and that revenue will increase.

Side B: Autopilot (aka lane keeping) is fast becoming default option across manufacturers. Tesla will take a dip in sales if such 'basic' option is no longer available.

Whether side A > side B is to be seen.

cosmicgadget•19m ago
I'd prefer to evaluate it from the viewpoint of someone outside the Tesla c-suite.
dwa3592•51m ago
Time for comma to shine?

https://comma.ai/

waffletower•47m ago
Tesla's autopilot was so clumsy that I stopped using it and forgot about it years ago. I like the adaptive cruise control though, it is more transparent and decidedly more of a benefit, except for its phantom braking moments. Autopilot's requirement that your hands be on the wheel (and do nothing) is a strain over time, definitely boring, and a terrible interface. I don't understand why people would pay for such an awkward feature. The monthlong demos of Full Self Driving I tried were even more awkward. The need to keep your hands on the wheel required a different but nearly equivalent cognitive load to actual steering, when using it in residential and city traffic. The crucial difference is that "the car was driving me" rather than "I was driving the car". Tesla can't convince everyone that their driver assist technology warrants product status; take away driver autonomy and make them pay for it seems like a failure to me. It won't be a product until you can sit in the back, close your eyes and safely arrive at your destination. Good luck getting to that level of quality with this business model. Tesla should be giving the tech away to its car owners and collecting as much data as they can, right? I have points to spare for the astroturf Muskovites to downvote my honest (but embarrassed) customer perspective.
nehal3m•39m ago
I drive one on Dutch roads, and a lot of the back roads (60km/h) are one lane with dotted lines on the side like here: [1]

If you turn on TACC, it will constantly whine that you're hugging the side of 'your lane'. But it's one lane for both directions, you're supposed to hug your side!

In my SAAB I used cruise control anywhere I expected to maintain speed for any amount of time. In the Y I don't bother on this type of road because it bitches at me constantly and sometimes even jerks me to the middle of the lane. That's never happened with oncoming traffic but I'm not risking it.

[1]https://shorturl.at/jSQhP (shortened, Maps links are huge)

vlovich123•38m ago
I would recommend testing out the latest FSD. It’s made huge forward steps vs what was there before.
compton•26m ago
well, years ago is a long time in tech. the latest videos I've seen show people not having to touch the wheel any more, and it apparently drives fairly long complex routes with no intervention.

There's even Teslas operating as "auto taxis" now in some cities - they drive entirely without anyone even in the driver seat.

waffletower•2m ago
I TL;DR the update release notes, and wasn't aware that the wheel holding requirements were gone. I am not convinced yet, as I got a phantom "take control of your vehicle" alert when leaving the driveway a few weeks ago, for no apparent reason (hands on wheel, no visible hazards). They happen every once in a while. My daughter has been thinking of using the Tesla alert sound in one of her trap songs given our familiarity with it.
heisenbit•12m ago
Musk is a true genius: You were paying first for the hardware and then to conduct training supervision for the AI while taking full responsibility if something goes wrong.
dotcoma•46m ago
How much does braking cost ?
ModernMech•45m ago
Depends on your social credit score.
direwolf20•30m ago
The American social credit score is just called credit score.
perfmode•37m ago
$0.00000008 per Newton of deceleration force applied to the vehicle.

Pressing the brake pedal and maintaining a stationary position is billed at a rate of $0.003 per second of immobility.

Energy dissipation during the braking event costs an additional $0.00001 per Joule of heat generated.

dsr_•45m ago
Time to update https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autono...
enopod_•51s ago
this is hilarious :)
TacoCommander•44m ago
Our 2020 Model S came with Autopilot. It was part of the purchase price.

We don't use FSD, we don't use Autopilot either.

But I'll be goddamed if he tries to take away something I paid for.

square_usual•12m ago
This is only for new cars sold, as they can't take away features that were included in the advertised price for a car when it was sold.
testing22321•43m ago
Somewhat related, there are now robotaxis giving rides to customers in Austin with no driver, and no safety monitor inside at all.

Progress, for sure.

thechao•40m ago
Waymo's been in Austin for a while! Seeing them on MOPAC, when I don't think they're supposed to be on the highway, is always charming.
verdverm•27m ago
a while for sure, Waymo had cars all over last time I was there ~5 years ago

Waymo expanded highway operations at the end of last year

https://apnews.com/article/waymo-autonomous-driverless-cars-...

Zigurd•8m ago
There's no monitor in the car. But there is a chase car with a monitor in it. Technically correct is the best kind isn't it?
SilverElfin•39m ago
Elon has been posting everyday about how awesome FSD is, interspersed with fearmongering about how white people will disappear, how “white culture” is at risk, and the need for remigration / ethnic cleansing to take back our country. It’s hard to take technical claims about FSD seriously when these other posts are completely deranged.

But some claims he makes seem like they’re plain factual. For example he’s claiming that Robotaxi rides in Austin don’t have human supervision now (https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/2014397578352226423). Is that true or is it that they’re just remotely monitoring them instead of sitting in the car?

Elon also retweeted Bloomberg’s fawning review of how perfect FSD is (https://xcancel.com/SawyerMerritt/status/2014721293950590985), but I also see lots of people saying FSD is far less reliable than something like Waymo, and that intervention is frequently needed. To me it seems like all of a sudden, when it became obvious that Waymo is far ahead and Tesla’s stock is overvalued and China’s FSD competitors have caught up, there has been a push to say FSD is ready to be on streets just like Waymo.

Is this just a dangerous experiment on the public? Or has it actually improved in some way? Have they said what specific software improvements they built to make it ready for the public?

qwerpy•32m ago
Politics aside, FSD is quite awesome these days. It’s pretty much at “press a button and enjoy the ride” capability, although you do have to make a show of paying attention to the road. My truck came with lifetime FSD which I’m happy with, and two family members pay for the monthly subscription because of the quality of life improvement.
Zigurd•21m ago
Would you take a nap in the backseat while you ride? How much more improvement do you think it would need before you'd be willing to do that?
ericmay•32m ago
> Is this just a dangerous experiment on the public? Or has it actually improved in some way?

Who is to say anyway? I don't trust Chinese company claims any more than I do Tesla's. Probably less because in America so many folks dislike Elon that even sometimes the negatives are blown out of proportion and are much more widely reported on.

Waymo's claims I trust a little bit more because they're often operated in extremely limited circumstances (why not just take a bus or walk or something), with supervision, and because I've heard of a number of bizarre incidents.

All of these tools and technologies are of moderate utility - if you're going to drive it's probably eventually going to be safer for most people (most of whom are exceptionally poor drivers) to just let the car drive. But if you remove the need for hopping in a car to go to Costco to get a jug of milk and instead allow people to just walk down the street a little ways you realize that these are just additive technologies.

If we built cities properly we wouldn't need to spend $50,000 on a car, plus maintenance and insurance, and now a $99.99 starting subscription which, will probably become mandatory at some point for insurance purposes, just to participate in daily life. That's not to say there's anything wrong with cars, I have one, a Tesla in fact, but requiring a car for existence leaves us all poorer and worse off.

Veserv•19m ago
Oh no, they are nowhere near confident enough for remote monitoring. They have a chase car following directly behind [1][2] which presumably has the power to initiate a remote emergency stop.

Of course this is the same system that likes to ignore train crossing red warning lights [3] so it can run into crossing trains. Very advanced.

[1] https://xcancel.com/joetegtmeyer/status/2014410572226322794

[2] https://electrek.co/2026/01/22/tesla-didnt-remove-the-robota...

[3] https://xcancel.com/RealDanODowd/status/1968788791805583629

Someone1234•39m ago
A new Tesla, without subscription, now has worse Steering Assist than a $22K Toyota Corolla.

Back when Autopilot launched, in consumer cars, it was pretty unique. But the market has moved on significantly, and basic Steering Assist/Full-Speed-Range Automatic Cruise Control, are pretty universal features today.

buggy6257•27m ago
My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.
Waterluvian•22m ago
I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly.

My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate, which I can feel in the wheel, so I compensate for as well. And if I let go of the wheel and let it win, it suddenly flings me towards the right side of the lane.

I suspect this is because it isn't programmed to think that I'm making adjustments, it probably just thinks there's some weirdness in the vehicle dynamics/road characteristics that requires extra compensation.

nwienert•14m ago
Have a EX90 I got on a really great deal, we drove it cross-country and it was mind-blowing how little I had to do. If it didn't make you touch the wheel / pay attention we could have basically done the entire trip without incident minus off-ramps.

But there was one thing that was quite bad, similar to yours. While passing a semi I pulled it to the left side and it actually yanked us right so hard and then over-corrected once again. Super scary moment, the only issue of the whole trip, but basically never passed with it on again.

Chilinot•14m ago
My volvo also has a "not perfectly tuned" PID loop. With "autopilot" engaged it keeps weaving constantly left and right inside the lane im in. Have gotten used to keeping a firm-ish pressure on the steering wheel at all times to compensate. But drivers behind me must have thought me drunk before i got the hang of it.
Applejinx•10m ago
Same with mine from last year. I don't tap the wheel, but I treat it as 'co-driving' or like the car has its own somewhat fussy opinions on where to be. If I zoom up on another car at a stop it's capable of freaking out and braking, it follows other cars at a good safe distance, and the lane keeping feels like you're holding the car's hand as it goes along, and its attention is generally better than yours. Works for me.

I don't want 'nap in the backseat while it drives me places', I want this. A bit of a personality keeping me on track and tidy. I'll keep my hands on the wheel but yeah, my attention is spared to watch for idiots, and I think that's good.

ajross•7m ago
Well... yeah, but the Tesla will do that on an empty road, then approach a slow car from behind and make a lane change decision to pass, then take your next exit and continue on through city streets, through all sorts of traffic conditions, to your destination. And it will monitor your attention with eye tracking instead of making you mess with the wheel.

It's absolutely true that the rest of the industry is rolling out new features. But people are fooling themselves if they genuinely think it's catching up. Tesla is way, way ahead here among consumer auto vendors, and frankly at parity with Waymo in the autonomy space.

They've also made an inexplicably poor pricing decision in this case that is worth talking about. But no, your Subaru isn't a meaningful competitor.

Waterluvian•25m ago
When I was testing vehicles in 2019 I found that a bunch of them had lane keeping but they kind of "bounced" between the lines. I got a Forester because for reason I typed but but aren't really topic relevant, it was far, far nicer and works amazingly. And for years whenever a Teslafriend would tout their lane keeping, I was just, "uhh yeah my base model Subaru does that." "Oh no, no this is better, this does a lot more than just the basic lane keeping you get..." "Nope, that sounds just like my Subaru."
dalyons•3m ago
i have a 2020 outback, and I didnt evaluate the lane keeping as part of the purchase decision. But since then i have rented a ton of different cars for work travel, and have realized surbaru has the best system out there, outside of truly premium cars / software cars like tesla. Some of them (chevvy) are outright dangerous. Its surprising because in every other way subaru's electronic / software sucks :)
ajross•13m ago
To be fair, though, the subscription isn't for "Steering Assist", it's for FSD. You don't subscribe to the feature you have on your Corolla, you subscribe to an autonomous navigation solution.

This is a pretty boneheaded business decision on Tesla's part. But their technology remains clearly superior.

MBCook•8m ago
They can rename it whatever they want.

People had a feature for free, now they don’t, because Tesla wants money.

“But it’s better…” only if you pay. If you don’t, still gone.

What else matters?

I see nothing wrong with them offering a cheap(er) FSD option. I object to them removing existing features to force adoption.

Centigonal•6m ago
To underscore this: the boneheaded decision Tesla is making is forcing customers to choose between a $99/mo subscription for FSD, and no ACC or lanekeeping assist otherwise. It's like letting people buy a subscription to the iPhone Pro Max 17 or not have any phone at all.

By the way, FSD ("full self-driving") is just as inaccurately named as Autopilot. I don't know why Tesla can't call their technology, like, CyberDrive or something that isn't glaringly inaccurate.

t1234s•35m ago
The basic autopilot is very useful. It would be nice if they offered it as a one-time fee when ordering your car.
gambiting•32m ago
The real question is why buys Teslas now, given that their owner is a proven fascist showing nazi salutes on stage. Do you have to say "sieg heil" to start it too?
weirdmantis69•25m ago
good little sheeple.
baggachipz•30m ago
I'm glad I got rid of my Teslas, they are always doing their best to make the experience worse. Stage three of enshittification from them. I loved it back when it was stage 1.
t1234s•29m ago
FSD makes sense as a subscription as it's something that gets updated all of the time. Subscriptions to things built into the car like heated seats seems like a way to scam money out of people.
Someone1234•19m ago
I agree; but Autopilot unlike FSD hasn't been updated in several years.

It doesn't contain maps or context of the roads, it is just Auto-Steer + Lane-Change + Full-Range Cruise Control under one brand-umbrella. Mostly useful on the Motorways/Freeways, and commonly found in competitor's vehicles.

t1234s•10m ago
If you have the basic "Free" Autopilot was it possible to upgrade it in the app to Enhanced Autopilot to get the lane change feature?
palata•2m ago
My Garmin receives updates and I don't have to pay a subscription for that. Hell I don't even need updates if it does what it should. Often the updates are there to fix bugs because the software was sold before being ready.
physhster•26m ago
Is this an ad for comma.ai? Because it sure reads like one...
jackmarshl0w•26m ago
I think comma would be a great alternative from these clown
lisp2240•25m ago
All Teslas should be banned. This has gone on long enough.
fortran77•23m ago
The latest version of FSD is amazing. We have it on our Plaids (2024 and 2026 models) and I probably only actually "drive" 5% of the time. There's a camera to see if you're paying attention to the road, so no longer any need to keep your hands on the wheel. It'll start from a parking space and go all the way into my house and back into the garage.

Of course, I don't trust it as much as I trust Waymo's system, and I'm very careful when using it in rain or fog...

cosmicgadget•17m ago
So you're saying people should just pay for the subscription? Seems like tangential FSD(S)-glazing here.
eldaisfish•13m ago
Cameras wired into an internet connected car is the #1 reason why I will never buy a car like a Tesla.

Anecdotes like yours are often from the point of view of someone in California - sunny, clear weather most of the year. In monsoon rain, fog, snow, or unusual markings on the road, all these systems break down.

1970-01-01•19m ago
$99!

Not worth it for anyone doing less than 100 miles/day.

ChrisArchitect•18m ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46618435
nntwozz•14m ago
I'm 41 and I've never been comfortable with even cruise control, when I drive I DRIVE.

I can't shake the feeling of trusting an already complex mechanical machine to yet another layer of complexity through software.

---

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

— Scotty, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock

clpm4j•13m ago
I've tried the various flavors of self-driving in my Tesla over the past several years, and essentially it came down to a three-strikes rule for me - after the third time that car jerkily exited the self-driving mode on it own (the third time being in a slight bend on the highway at night) and spiked my heart rate to must have been an all-time high as I manually corrected in time to avoid disaster.. I said "nope, this is a decent electric car but I'm driving it myself from now on."

Waymo on the other hand, I trust it with my life on a weekly basis and have never had cause for concern (fingers crossed I didn't just jinx it).

ArekDymalski•12m ago
What will be the next step? ignition? wipers? opening passenger doors? charging for functionality that several manufacturers offer for past several years sounds like desperation to get any revenue.
palata•5m ago
As long as people buy them, they have no reason not to do it. What I can't understand is why people buy those cars in the first place.
jmward01•10m ago
I work hard to keep subscriptions out of my life. I will do everything in my power to not have a subscription as part of any car I own. The problem is it is likely out of my hands. I have a 21 yo car and a 12 yo car and will eventually have to get something 'modern' (worse) that forces spyware/subscriptions on me just to get from point at to point b. I will have to pay astronomical prices on a worse experience for the privilege of having my data sold and the opportunity to pay them monthly. I want to scream when I see things like this but to who? I wonder how hard it is to electrify a 20yo car....
jmb99•2m ago
> I have a 21 yo car and a 12 yo car and will eventually have to get something 'modern' (worse) that forces spyware/subscriptions on me just to get from point at to point b

I daily a 30 year old car. There exists a sweet spot of reliability, safety, and comfort (probably the early-mid 2000s) that in theory, you should never have to buy a vehicle outside of, newer or older. There will always be clean old cars in good shape you can buy, you don't need a new vehicle.

Unless you can't buy gasoline anymore. But that's still quite a long ways away imo.

wscott•8m ago
The funny part is that the Tesla doesn't have a basic dumb cruise control. It only has "traffic-aware" cruise control which uses the cameras and doesn't use the new FSD code so it has lots of glitches and phantom braking and decides for itself what speed to use. My wife just wants to set the speed and have the car go that speed.
tehwebguy•4m ago
$8,000 / $99 / month is 6 years 8 months.

How long do people keep their Tesla normally?

nixass•2m ago
Why would Tesla lock adaptive cruise control when others have it subscription free?

Surrender as a service: Microsoft unlocks BitLocker for feds

https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/23/surrender_as_a_service_microsoft/
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