frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

New York, California pension leaders oppose 'extreme' SpaceX control structure

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/new-york-california-pension-leaders-oppose-extreme-spacex-control-structure-2026-05-14/
39•2OEH8eoCRo0•1h ago

Comments

AdrianB1•45m ago
This is subjective, there are companies that are mostly an investment vehicle and companies that have a strong motivation to make changes in the world. Investors, especially passive investors like pension funds that are only interested in returns, should know in advance what they are getting into and decide if they want to buy shares or not; it should not be "I will buy shares and try to change the company".

I worked for a company where activist investors bought enough shares to have influence, then practically messed up with the company in a way that today, 10-15 years later, the company is a shadow of what it used to be - fell from top positions in Fortune 500, share price is lower in inflation-adjusted money, management is extremely politized and unprofessional, most professionals left or retired. I don't think this is what we want from SpaceX, in the end this is the company that moved the needle in space launches and cost per launch/kg, it's not a ketchup company that not too many people will cry about.

Octoth0rpe•39m ago
> there are companies that are mostly an investment vehicle and companies that have a strong motivation to make changes in the world.

And there are companies that are mostly an investment vehicle whose leaders spin their self-serving decisions as necessary to make changes in the world. Some of them might even be right! (that their decisions are better in the long run, and that ceding more control to shareholders would lead to better short term outcomes but far worse long term outcomes).

lotsofpulp•39m ago
> it should not be "I will buy shares and try to change the company".

it should not be “I will go public and try to stop the public from exercising their rights as shareholders”...just stay private.

Or, if those business owners want to retain their right to make all the decisions, they should structure the shares like Meta or Alphabet.

saalweachter•36m ago
Super voting shares were a mistake to allow in general.
lotsofpulp•28m ago
For whatever reason, there are a few very successful businesses with super voting shares. If the alternative was to keep those businesses private, I do not know if that would have been better for the public.

Presumably, the market will price in the risks of super voting shares.

inglor_cz•28m ago
Why? Accredited investors don't seem to mind, and they should be able to judge the pluses and the minuses.
asdfaoeu•33m ago
More like if these funds have an issue with the management structure they should just not buy the shares.
aNoob7000•29m ago
Maybe Nasdaq shouldn't put Space X in the Nasdaq-100 index fund 15 trading days later vs six months.
aNoob7000•31m ago
As investors for other people, the pension funds, have a fiduciary responsibility to ask questions. I don't care if Space X is changing the world or making potato chips for consumers.

If you read the article, they have concerns about the governance structure of Space X and the ability of investors to question what the company is doing.

AdrianB1•12m ago
I think the investors should NOT invest if they don't like the governance structure. This is calling "voting with your wallet".
jt2190•36m ago
Same article syndicated on msn.com, without paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/new-york-californi...

The issues:

> The New York and California pension systems would become holders of SpaceX shares through their passive allocations if the company is admitted to major U.S. stock indexes.

> The officials… objected to the amount of power the board has given Musk over the company, including:

- voting control over the stock,

- veto power over his own removal as CEO, and

- protections from litigation, including mandatory arbitration for SpaceX shareholder claims.

> …

> In their letter, the pension leaders urged SpaceX to:

- adopt one-share, one-vote or sunset super-voting shares within seven years;

- install a majority-independent board and separate the CEO and chair roles;

- eliminate provisions protecting Musk from termination without his approval;

- scrap mandatory arbitration; and require independent approval of related-party transactions with Musk's other companies.

(Formatting mine; moved paragraph about becoming holders above the lists of concerns and recommendations.)

AndrewKemendo•25m ago
I’d love to hear one of you staunch capitalists tell me why the description of this persons control over 13,000+ employees is any different than a feudal “Lord”

Over the entire lifetime of SpaceX Nearly 100% of the revenue comes from the government

They pay gifts and tributes to the government

They spend an absurd amount of money on lobbying and writing laws to take monopoly control of the subsection of the market

What am I missing here? Pretty sure there’s Universal agreement that the feudal system is not something anybody should be promoting

iamronaldo•19m ago
Why lie about something that's easily proven false with a Google search? Over last 5 years government revenue is under 25% and if you go off of last 2 years its closer to like 10-15% (and declining!) Starlink is the vast majority of spacex revenue
jrmg•16m ago
You don’t need to accuse someone of lying when correcting them.
AndrewKemendo•13m ago
They’re just fanboy for these mini dictators because they view themselves as a future one
AdrianB1•9m ago
You need if they are doing it on purpose.
AndrewKemendo•14m ago
The company was entirely dependent on government funding for its first 17 years

that’s undeniable

Starlink would not exist if the government did not prop up the whole thing in the beginning

This is precisely how the Commons get privatized and your ignorance around this topic is unbelievable

Unreal how simplistic you people are

kjksf•3m ago
SpaceX had to literally sue the military to even be allowed to bid for projects. And won. And then won the contracts.

The guy who landed on the Moon testified in congress opposing giving SpaceX any money.

The government wanted nothing to do with SpaceX.

SpaceX won the contracts despite the government, not because. They won the contracts because they offered the best product at the lowest price.

jaccola•11m ago
The vast majority of those 13k workers are highly skilled and in very high demand. They could work elsewhere or start their own company. In addition, they are far better educated and have more welfare options than anyone living under a feudal system.
AndrewKemendo•4m ago
Oh yes the classic “but the standard of living has gone up and now people have televisions” argument

They are living under a feudal system

Any one of the 13,000 could be fired on whim of Musk and even if it was in error they would have months if ever to get restitution. The employees describe him as a “tyrant” that fires people based on ego

The fact that people aren’t dying of scurvy is all you’re pointing to?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-employee-survey-elon-m...

mittensc•34m ago
good, pensions should not go into companies where you have no control.

That's not an investment, it's a wealth transfer to original investors at a price they dictate.

without control you can get original founder deciding to build cybertrucks and associating your brand with nazis.

These should not be included in indexes either.

jbecke•28m ago
Option 1: Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars, and maybe abuses the corporate entity a bit, as a piggy bank, or whatever.

Option 2: the market has control, and optimizes for short term starlink revenue and the launch business.

I prefer Option 1.

inglor_cz•27m ago
I suspect that the set of interested investors would look very different in both cases. Maybe even with an empty intersection.
pjc50•26m ago
Option 3: Elon takes over the Federal government, causes some major security incidents, and cuts off USAID stranding a number of Federal employees and cutting off short term food support for hundreds of thousands of people depending on it.

Option 4: Elon takes over a social network and tries to Orbanize the West with it.

jnovek•19m ago
It’s not just cutting food support. Hundreds of thousands of people have died because we cut USAID.

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/update-lives-lost-usaid-cuts

pjc50•10m ago
I deliberately undersold the claim because this is one of those things that's so big and yet so invisible in the news and discourse. If we had 100k people die in a city anywhere on the globe due to, say, an earthquake, it would be headlines. These people just .. cease to exist, unremarked.

(It does raise questions about how Elon might manage the food supply to Mars, if that ever happened)

phkahler•4m ago
>> In addition, we are unable to directly update our analysis using the previous approach given the complexity of using USASpending.gov and SF133 report data from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to update from foreignassistance.gov because ID codes do not match up.

They can't really tie the cuts to actually useful programs. That was a big reason for the cuts.

shafyy•22m ago
You must be living under a rock if you think all super rich billionaires like Musk are doing is "abuses the corporate entity a bit, as a piggy bank, or whatever"
jbecke•20m ago
You can either concentrate power or disperse it. NASA, Boing, etc. is what happens when you disperse it. Committees aren't bold. The reason SpaceX exists is because Elon willed it into existence.
watwut•21m ago
Elon has control and optimizes for ability to abuse the corporate entity as much as possible. Expects other people to pay for issues he caused, causes as much harm as possible to feel as a manly man with no empathy and his friends in government and Epstein circles back all that up.
trunkiedozer•7m ago
Wrote without evidence
doc_ick•21m ago
I prefer Option 2 as musk has an alleged track record of trading things between his companies with no oversight, and how sAfE cybertrucks are
jbecke•18m ago
Please acknowledge SpaceX wouldn't exist if Option 2 was chosen from inception. What you are really saying is: now that Elon dictatored it into existence, power should be given to the people. Maybe. But are you sure now is the right time?
rswail•20m ago
If you want Option 1, then stay a private company.

Don't ask the public for money and then not provide any of the corporate requirements under the SEC for the proper operation of the markets.

You can't have both.

jbecke•17m ago
You can, e.g. Zuck/Meta. (I understand you are making a moral argument, not a legal one, I understand it, I disagree, courts disagree too)
fny•18m ago
Tesla is already publically traded. It's valuation depends on investors buying into Musks vision.

As a rule, investors optimize for long term growth since that's what maximizes valuations. All the megacap companies are judged by future growth.

The effect is companies tend to exaggerate and lie about what they can achieve in the long term to juice their own stock. Elon's def got the juice.

jbecke•14m ago
Investors should optimize for long term growth, yes. The problem is Management (CEO, etc.) will get fired if things look bad. So the incentive for management, if they can get fired, is to ensure monotonic increase. Sometimes — especially for a rocket company! — you should be allowed to fail for a few years. You should be allowed to take big swings, without risk of getting fired. If Elon knows he is in control, he can think long-term. If he's at risk of being let go if things look bleak, his optimization function will be different (and, IMO, net worse for society).
malshe•11m ago
In that case they should stay private
travelalberta•9m ago
People raised on a diet of social democracy propaganda will kick and scream when you tell them people aren't equal and that decisions should be limited to exceptional individuals and not the mob. If you don't like the SpaceX structure don't invest. It's that easy. I'd rather give Elon the reins and see what happens. He managed to make electric cars viable and starlink is an incredible technical achievement. There's so much cool engineering to be done and only Elon seems to be capable of half of it. One person with a vision is more valuable than a million shareholders with a slight level of financial investment.
t43562•4m ago
It's just undesirable to let people get too powerful if you believe in democracy. Fall of the Roman Empire etc.
jmuguy•23m ago
I'm more worried about the early inclusion into the Nasdaq 100 index and if other indexes will follow. I don't want my retirement to be passively buying Elon's latest shell game.
altcognito•20m ago
This is why he (and other billionaires) are pining to get Social Security replaced with an indexed based retirement fund?
jmuguy•17m ago
Who knows, I mean it would certainly make it easier for them to turn the entire population into their bag holders. Don't even have to hype the company any more or spin up a bunch of bullshit about space.
funimpoded•5m ago
Absolutely, that's the main reason there's been a push for that for decades. It's a giant pile of poor people's money that rich people can't easily skim from, and they'd really, really like to. Once it's "in the market" they gain all kinds of options for turning some of that money into their money, some immediately, some with tweaks to laws or policy.
snek_case•17m ago
Yeah this is pretty shady. The S&P 500 in particular has fairly strict criteria (e.g. 4 consecutive quarters of profitability) and those criteria exist for a reason. They made me more comfortable buying the S&P 500 knowing I'm not buying pre-revenue companies. This is a bad precedent to set just to please Elon.
khriss•21m ago
> Elon has control and optimizes for cool shit and going to Mars

This trope needs to die. SpaceX has no plans to go to Mars. Elon meanwhile regularly says forward looking stuff to attempt to justify the lofty valuations of his companies. Let's just say there is a ... mixed track record on these proclamations (Full self driving, Hyperloop anyone?)

ralfd•12m ago
This trope has to die. SpaceX Starship design is optimized for Mars (instead of Blue Origin NG) and the gigantic Starship Factory and multiple launch pads under construction in Texas, Florida and Louisiana (plus potentially foreign countries) only make sense with Mars.
kjksf•7m ago
Musk just tied his compensation to having 1 million people on Mars.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...

Do explain to me his evil plan of becoming rich by lying about going to Mars and yet agreeing to only get paid when he does go to Mars.

righthand•4m ago
Does Elon need the money though or does Elon need the valuation? Do you think he actually needs that paycheck to actually happen?
randallsquared•4m ago
Elon put out a musing akin to a blog post on Hyperloop.
RhysU•19m ago
> The New York and California pension systems would become holders of SpaceX shares through their passive allocations if the company is admitted to major U.S. stock indexes.

If they have discretion, these pensions can replicate the S&P500 minus SpaceX if they don't like SpaceX's governance.

If they're forced to passively hold precisely the S&P500 then shaddup and stop active managing.

Next.

trunkiedozer•10m ago
Then don’t buy the stock
randallsquared•6m ago
> would constitute the most management-favorable governance structure ever brought to the U.S. public markets at this scale

The "at this scale" is doing a lot of work here. The SpaceX IPO will be $1.5T to $2T, and the next highest IPO ever on the US public markets was Alibaba at $231B. This is so far outside the previous scale that their statement would be true even if EVERY other public company was structured in the same way.

Worldwide, the five highest have been Saudi Aramco, NTT, Alibaba, Facebook, and Uber, at 1.7T, 300B, 231B, 104B, and 75B. Note the outlier, here, which was not on the US public market, AND has a very similar tiny float.

If you go by capital raised, it's not quite as stark, but it's still quite different in the US market: 25B raised by Alibaba, the previous high, compared to 75B expected for SpaceX according to the article. The point that SpaceX isn't at the same scale regardless of governance is still pretty good, I think.

Math Jokes in Alice in Wonderland

https://storica.club/blog/alice-is-math-jokes/
1•yekbun123•5m ago•0 comments

Life, Death and Rebirth in the Land of the Buddha

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/14/t-magazine/nepal-buddha-kathmandu-buddhism.html
1•jackallis•6m ago•0 comments

CodeWright

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeWright
1•BruceEel•11m ago•0 comments

Rising Seas Could Encircle New Orleans by the End of This Century

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/new-orleans-sea-level-rise
1•speckx•12m ago•0 comments

Will Wildfires Spell This the End of the Campfire in Canada?

https://explore-mag.com/is-this-the-end-of-the-campfire-in-canada/
1•kspacewalk2•13m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Symphony: Integrate OpenCode with Linear and get your own dev team

https://github.com/skorokithakis/symphony
1•stavros•14m ago•0 comments

USDA Projects Smallest US Wheat Harvest Since 1972 Due to Plains Drought

https://www.agweb.com/news/usda-projects-smallest-us-wheat-harvest-1972-due-plains-drought
2•littlexsparkee•16m ago•0 comments

The Ackman Act

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EDezDWvB4wsgfhldNc23dNnSc0cZZfK9GZabjVvkyhg/edit?usp=sharing
1•throwawa1•17m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: How do you defend against supply chain attacks today?

3•elric•18m ago•2 comments

Karakeep – self-hostable bookmark-everything app

https://github.com/karakeep-app/karakeep
1•ano-ther•18m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Diffmode – Tool that builds custom growth tactics for bootstrapped SaaS

https://diffmode.app/
1•vanyaland•19m ago•1 comments

Neanderthal Dentists

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0347662
1•johnp314•20m ago•0 comments

Blocking mobile internet on smartphones improves attention and mental health

https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/4/2/pgaf017/8016017?login=false
2•jabo•22m ago•0 comments

Microsoft's AI system tops Anthropic's Mythos on cybersecurity benchmark

https://www.geekwire.com/2026/microsofts-multi-agent-ai-system-tops-anthropics-mythos-on-cybersec...
1•kseniamorph•23m ago•0 comments

Beware of Drunk Deer, French Police Say, Announcing Season of Inebriation

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/13/world/europe/france-drunk-deer.html
1•bookofjoe•23m ago•1 comments

Why autism pioneer Uta Frith wants to dismantle the spectrum

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2525037-why-autism-pioneer-uta-frith-wants-to-dismantle-the-...
1•donsupreme•23m ago•0 comments

Show HN: FreeFax (iOS) – a data point on shipping solo with Claude

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/freefax-send-fax-from-phone/id6763340737
1•joelsfoster•24m ago•0 comments

Hush – local push-to-talk dictation for macOS, no cloud, pastes at cursor

https://github.com/djmunro/hush
1•djmunro•25m ago•0 comments

DiscordMcp: Controlling Servers Through MCP

https://blog.rastrian.dev/post/discordmcp-controlling-servers-through-mcp
1•SchwKatze•25m ago•1 comments

The Whole Anthropic Kerfuffle

https://twitter.com/josevalim/status/2054887621336174799
15•tosh•25m ago•4 comments

Fight Slop with Clarity

https://blog.vtemian.com/post/fight-slop-with-clarity/
1•vtemian•28m ago•0 comments

Release NetHack 5.0 Atari ST/TT/Falcon (WIP)

https://github.com/ingpaschke/NetHack/releases/tag/v5.0-atari-wip
1•ibobev•29m ago•0 comments

Ubuntu 26.04 LTS Moving the Industry Forward with Linux 7.0 and More

https://www.servethehome.com/ubuntu-26-04-lts-moving-the-industry-forward-with-linux-7-0-and-more/
1•PaulHoule•31m ago•0 comments

BrrrViz – Learn GPU Programming

https://brrrviz.com/
2•sebg•31m ago•0 comments

Claude Account Suspended Seconds After Purchase?

3•AnthropicWHAT•32m ago•0 comments

The Third Hard Problem

https://mmapped.blog/posts/48-the-third-hard-problem
2•surprisetalk•33m ago•0 comments

Show HN: The trading terminal that prices everything in gold

https://pricedingoldelite.com
1•rrwilla•33m ago•0 comments

eBay Price Guesser

https://www.eguessr.com/
2•structuredPizza•35m ago•0 comments

56% merge rate on 316 cold OSS PRs in a week

https://github.com/kimjune01
2•kimjune01•36m ago•1 comments

Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

https://museum.eecs.yorku.ca/exhibits/show/hobby_canada/hobby_canada
3•rbanffy•36m ago•0 comments