It obviously confounds fragility with participation but, still, it must mean that people continue to use bikes -- I'm guessing increasingly e-bikes -- well into their old age.
(42% is 118/281 in the report.)
Tho tbf one still hopes that they come up with an infrastructure solution that makes it unnecessary in the long run.
Really we need to ban motorised vehicles that go above 12mph. They are not bicycles and should not be in cycleways. I feel there is a big difference between someone who is able to pedal at higher speeds and someone who is just using a motor vehicle.
What's the reason? Ordinary fatbikes aren't fast, and e-bikes are fast in any case.
They have the absolute worst reputation around Amsterdam.
That boundary needs to be recovered, and then rules will make sense again, until then, any effort is futile.
Not really. The first motorbikes were bicycles with engines attached. Many current electric motorcycles are bicycles with electric motors attached.
If it has a throttle and does not require pedal assist, it is a motorcycle.
I live in Luxembourg and the infrastructure is not as good as the Netherlands. Majority of offenders (in my experience) are delivery guys and teenagers. Where teenagers simply don't care & do reckless things like passing on a big intersection at full speed on a red light, delivery guys do the same things for extra tips.
Some of the fat-tire electric bikes are really fast, I happen to chase them on Kirchberg cycle road. I sustained 40km/h average behind delivery guys and they were still faster, eventually dropping me. (I was on a road bike).
Simply put, anything above 250watts does not belong to cycle lane.Includes humans :j
The only meaningful difference is if there is a motor or not. If there is a motor, it gets a speedometer and you have to stop at stop signs and red lights and follow speed limits. If you are powering yourself, it’s a bit more understandable that you don’t want to stop and start at every intersection. (Though if you have a racing bike, I’d reattach the speedometer and speed-limit requirements.)
If you want to go faster, pedal yourself.
This solves two problems:
- Cool kids aren't cool anymore, biking on their now slow ass fatbikes
- Old people who's mental faculties can't keep up with 25km/h anymore dont end up in so many traffic accidents.
Doesn't stop the government wasting half my Saturday and stealing £100 every couple of years.
We should congratulate cyclist on becoming fully fledged (oppressed) road users.
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240086517?hl=en-...
20kph is not a difficult speed for an adult on a push bike on a flat surface, so we’re not just talking about ebikes where a mandatory speedometer could make sense
With cycles (including e-bikes), the rider is exposed and is likely to get hurt during a collision and this provides a feedback loop so that experienced riders are likely to take care and be very attentive. Cars don't have this feedback loop and are also orders of magnitude heavier, so it's really a different situation.
It's bizarre to require a slower speed limit for a much lighter vehicle, when logic dictates that cars should have the much slower speed limit.
> We should congratulate cyclist on becoming fully fledged (oppressed) road users.
As a matter of record, the first modern roads were built specifically for and by cyclists: https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/roads-built-cars
Tourist tip if you are ever in Amsterdam: check the ferry next to the train station during rush hour. It is the equivalent of Shibuya crossing only for cyclists. Pure madness but somehow it all works like clockwork.
The question is, would I be allowed to use the road instead, if I go anywhere between 45kph to 60kph, as I tend to do on road-/gravelbikes on flat grounds, without too much head wind?
Thinking about it I even do 45kph with an old 3-speed rear hub and coaster brake, mudguards, dynamo, porter, basket, from 1985 when in Hamburg.
This makes no sense for me. Maybe don't declare bike lanes as such, if they are unfit for the purpose?
Something changed on the biking paths when e-bikes became the norm. Average speed went from 15 km/h to 25 km/h. This, combined with the heavyer weight of these bikes, created new dangers. A big ebike bike hitting a pedestrian routinely throws the pedestrian in the hospital and with life long damage. The fat bikes, some esteps and the food delivery people are worse. They tend to drive asocial, and are commonly illegally modified for higher speeds. The law is behind, and stupid politicians make it worse by stopping the police checking the bikes.
Meanwhile, bike paths are a lot busier, and if near pedestrians, things are getting dangerous by default. I've decided for myself to limit my speed to 20 km/h in the city centers or at schools, and commonly go even lower. 25 is only for the ebike 'highways' next to secondary roads.
I am pro stricter regulation and follow-up for my ebike. Belgium famously only implemented laws against drunk driving after an idiot killed a whole class at once. Let's not wait for an ebike equivalent. Better to do this calmly and thoughtfully now.
10-15 years ago police was stopping me and telling to get off the bicycle while I was driving bicycle carefully 4-5kmh on a pedestrian sidewalk in some major European cities. Now we have >15kg vehicles manoeuvring at >20kmh between pedestrians. The more east and south of Europe, the worse it is.
By the way with 5 mph you wouldn't enforce it accurately as there are no speedos or speed cameras for bikes but it makes it clear if you are going 15 mph you are breaking it. That's what the have for the shared walk in Regent's Park for example.
And don't get me wrong, I am not a huge fan of Dutch people. But I am even less of a fan of macho Moroccan kids.
Most fatbikes have a much more powerful motor than a regular e-bike, and can be used without pedaling at all. They are listed as 250W, but it's actually a software-limited 750W motor. Local vendors provide unlock instructions along with the bike.
Instead of the 25km/h legal limit, they can go 40-50km/h: https://v8fatbike.com/how-to-unlock-ouxi-v8-speed-limit/
It's just a motorcycle in disguise. Then, to make matters worse, they weigh 30-40KG + two 12-year-olds on top - that, combined with reckless riding, can do a lot more damage than a boring cycling incident.
These are undrivable as a city commute, not to mention the stealing risk as they're usually expensive. I knew some people who attempted and gave up after few weeks.
(build-in speed limits that are significantly below what the average cyclist can achieve by pedaling also seem kind of silly. IMO people might not bypass such limits as much if the limit was put at a more sensible level)
Neither they are fast, powerful, or have reasonable range, yet are already too heavy to pedal only.
They're apparently pretty good for cargo bikes where you can pull a heavy load much more easily.
I personally don't like 'em because I can get to 15.5mph very quickly and then it's like running into a wall because they're so heavy.
huhkerrf•2d ago
There's a certain sub strain of cyclists that want absolutely no rules for them.
In a just world, cyclists would have more freedom than cars, but pedestrians would have most of all. But walking through European cities with large cycling cultures can be dangerous, too, especially for children and the elderly. Too often, cyclists will completely ignore stop signs and stop lights, or go at full speed on the sidewalks.
And because I know someone is going to retort that car drivers break traffic laws, too: drivers acting dangerously shouldn't excuse cyclists.
globular-toast•2d ago
graemep•1d ago
The other problem is that cyclists often share space with pedestrians. I see cyclists on the pavement all the time (mostly illegally - and without consequences), I never see a car driving on the pavement (some park on the pavement, which is annoying).
apothegm•1d ago
The solution to this is better cycling infrastructure to separate them, not making cycling less useful by setting ridiculously low speed limits.
graemep•1d ago
aix1•2d ago
huhkerrf•1d ago