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Deno Is Joining Cloudflare

https://deno.com/blog/cloudflare
188•ilreb•55m ago

Comments

phaser•45m ago
I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse. I use Deno daily and while it’s true that it’s in this weird position where it’s not sexy like bun or enterprise-y like node, it has a great developer experience. a no-surprises runtime that does a lot of interesting things the right way (like compile to desktop to a browser-less webgpu runtime), the vscode extension is flawless and overall the perfect balance of batteries included without bloat.

of course i’m only talking about deno, the technology not deno, the cloud service.

weli•41m ago
read the blogpost, they are discontinuing deno after 1 year
phaser•9m ago
it’s open source. i’m hoping it gets picked up by the community. maybe i’m just too hopeful
pimterry•39m ago
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse

Bad news, sorry, the article says:

> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.

Sounds like Celld will live on within workerd, Deno is over.

mzajc•39m ago
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse.

From TFA: We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.

theodorejb•42m ago
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime. Deno will remain open source, and we welcome others who want to continue its development.

So unless someone else picks up development, Deno will no longer be supported.

simonw•36m ago
I don't like how that's in the Deno post but gets no mention in the Cloudflare post. Seems like a pretty important detail!
rvz•35m ago
I mean we already have a winner (Bun) and it just means that Deno has admitted defeat.

From what is likely going to happen is that Deno will be donated to the Linux Foundation to avoid this.

binlog•31m ago
Bun admitted defeat and sold themselves even before Deno. Node.js is and always was the winner.
pylotlight•30m ago
and yet bun is going stronger than ever, working perfectly, despite all the haters such as yourself.
binlog•27m ago
Right up until the day the founder gets bored and leaves Anthropic, or some middle manager does a reorg and the project isn't important to them anymore.
vmg12•42m ago
If this was done to kill celld as a runtime that would be unfortunate.

edit: my reaction was too soon, it seems like they will be explicitly working on making workerd an open source self hostable runtime

kentonv•39m ago
On the contrary. Please read my part of Cloudflare's blog post here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/
vmg12•38m ago
I'm really happy to hear this. Congrats to everyone involved.
ForHackernews•39m ago
Sounds like the opposite: They are killing Deno to work on celld
pimterry•39m ago
The Cloudflare side is also worth a read: https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/
multisport•39m ago
I'm very surprised they are not running with the runtime. That seemed like Deno's secret sauce? The rest of it is very aligned with Cloudflare already, deploy, kv, workers, etc seems like the lower hanging fruit.
oh_ok_lol•38m ago
And all the VCs funding both companies celebrated the circular economy!
weird-eye-issue•37m ago
Cloudflare is a publicly traded company.
oh_ok_lol•34m ago
No people on the Boards of both companies? Sorry for being cynical. Seen so much funny stuff in this industry. Good for Deno. Better choice given the talent behind it than Bun, IMHO.
rvz•31m ago
...And the VCs who invested in Deno will be getting their return from Cloudflare acquiring it, since they are "not allowed to lose".

They would rather have Deno pursue an acquisition instead of shutting down and losing their investment.

The only questionable detail about this announcement is it was for an undisclosed amount. Make of that what you will.

officialchicken•28m ago
There is nothing that requires a VC to sell part or all of their shares when an IPO occurs. And you can read their S1[0] to verify.

[0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1477333/000119312519...

rattray•38m ago
As a bystander, I'm excited by this. I don't know what it'll be, but I have a sense some interesting, powerful, and secure new ways of shipping code could come from this marriage...
rvz•38m ago
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime. Deno will remain open source, and we welcome others who want to continue its development.

So Deno is going to be unsupported and will no longer be maintained and will be discontinued.

It looks like "written in Rust" is not enough for a selling point and lost out to the fierce competition against Bun.

vollbrecht•33m ago
Isn't bun also written in rust, so can you clarify what your point is here?
rvz•20m ago
Deno wasn't doing well and was repeatedly outperformed in downloads and raw performance when Bun was written in Zig, and even before Bun got acquired by Anthropic.

My point is, even if Bun stayed on Zig, Deno still struggled to compete regardless of the language used.

tommica•29m ago
I'd guess Deno failed because of the original decision of not supporting node_modules, instead went with a different way of handling dependencies. Else the native typescript support would most likely had pushed them to bigger success past nodejs.

Though nodejs was even then quite solid in it's position, so maybe it would not have made a difference.

tiborsaas•37m ago
Congrats on the exit :)

Finally, the next step of forking Node is up for grabs:

Node > Deno > Done (anyone?)

bsoqk•32m ago
And then Danone.
khalidkhair•19m ago
This one might have to be spooned
notnullorvoid•36m ago
> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.

Extremely disappointing...

mbStavola•34m ago
No idea why CF wouldn't just have them to continue working on Deno indefinitely...
brachkow•10m ago
Because Deno turned into some quirky serverless technology.

CF has its own quirky serverless technology and has no interest in funding any competition, even/especially in such sad shape as Deno is

kentonv•34m ago
Please be sure to read the post on Cloudflare's blog, it's not just fluff:

https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/

TL;DR: Ryan and co. will be merging celld with workerd to create one first-class open source self-hostable runtime for Workers and Durable Objects. In the post I explain in the post why, contrary to what you might think, this is good business for Cloudflare and we're very excited about it.

smt88•29m ago
I don’t know that many people reading this particular thread care whether this is a good business decision for Cloudflare.

Most of us are here because we’re curious what it means for Deno specifically and FOSS TypeScript runtimes in general, since Bun was also acquired.

patcon•23m ago
I do appreciate that it's not explicitly anti-competitive, but as a biochemist who spent a lot of time thinking about living systems, I am a bit concerned about a budding ecology that has perhaps collapsed <3

But I do have a strangely high trust in the individuals involved (you, Ryan, Sunil, others), even though I am a bit perplexed by CloudFlare's incentives or economics

Which is to say: I am choosing to be optimistic :)

Caveat, am commenting before reading, mind you -- just my general reaction to mergers in a world that never cleaves :)

EDIT: though this has also probably deflated a lot of the good-faith conversations I was having with gov-adjacent Europeans about celld being a boon for the moment of heightened European sovereignty, where EU data residency isn't necessarily considered enough distance anymore.

mark_and_sweep•21m ago
Who decided that the Deno runtime would be abandoned? Was this Cloudflare's or Deno's decision? And why?
ramesh31•33m ago
So both major (and the only meaningful) possible Node alternatives have been absorbed into proprietary monoliths in the last year. We all know how well the Joyent years went, RIP to open source innovation at this point.
evbogue•29m ago
Congrats Ry
victorbjorklund•29m ago
RIP
bennett_dev•29m ago
I feel it leaves a bitter flavor how Ryan Dahl pushed so hard for Deno and Deno Deploy for years, just to let them die within 1 year and 6 months respectively. Thankfully I don't have any codebases that heavily use Deno features, otherwise this would be a steep curve now.
timdorr•25m ago
Investors are a helluva drug
vanviegen•22m ago
Meh, those types of large scale migrations are just a very short prompt nowadays.
phaser•9m ago
specially deno to bun
wosined•26m ago
> Deno sells out
h1fra•25m ago
Congrats. But also terrible news for the ecosystem; this project was a bit doomed from the start, and they acknowledge it multiple times (implicitly), but nice to have competition, I guess.

Ultimately I only trust Node.js to succeed. Bun being too deep into "shipping anything that increases usage".

cyanydeez•25m ago
is this Cloudflare signalling they're going to hard pivot to being an AI company?
notnullorvoid•12m ago
No if that were true they wouldn't be stopping development of Deno, which as it stands sits in the best position for codemode given it's granular sandboxing.
its-summertime•22m ago
Disappointing. Everything I want to express about this is impolite.
asar•17m ago
really wondering what role celld played in the negotiations
bennett_dev•7m ago
From CloudFlare's side (https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/) is seems celld was the main point of this - letting the Deno team focus on making workerd self-hosting easier.
classified•16m ago
R.I.P.
JaceComix•12m ago
Node always felt so annoying to deal with. I was really excited when Bun and Deno were coming up. Pour one out.
gen2brain•10m ago
I have no idea anymore what is happening, and none of the blogposts seem to explain that either. So, if I am to start a new JS or TypeScript project or whatever, what should I choose and why? One runtime used a lot of tokens to rewrite Zig project, one was already Rust, one bought, one rewritten in Go, what is going on?
AznHisoka•9m ago
I think the biggest thing Cloudflare needs to buy is some sort of Postgres-database service. They've already cornered the market for everything front-end/serverless
freeopinion•15m ago
Didn't the danger of the founder getting bored always exist? With or without Anthropic?
binlog•12m ago
What happens when the founder of node.js walks away? Nothing, because the project is community driven and is backed by the Linux foundation.
binlog•32m ago
This is a wild detail to just bury at the bottom. So many companies went all-in on Deno in recent years. Some even did major migrations off Node.js. Sucks for them I guess, but that's always the risk in chasing the shiny new thing over sticking to the old and dependable.
kuekacang•30m ago
I went all-in with bun. Did I bet wrong?
behnamoh•26m ago
Yup, Bun is at the mercy of Anthropic, and we know the extents they go to protect their competitive advantage.
buremba•5m ago
Use bun when it's drop in replacement of npm, never use Bun API itself.
user43928•25m ago
What did it get you?

For my projects, I am used to maintaining package manager configuration, bundlers, linters etc.

So I never had much interest in looking into benefits of Deno or bun.

porridgeraisin•11m ago
I was really surprised that cloudflare was acquiring deno to be honest, I have written about this here before, Deno was always sort of dead to me due to how little they cared for compat of all kinds (nodejs, CJS, backwards). It was refreshing to see bun care a lot about it (well, now its on a different path in other ways).

Then I read that paragraph, and it made more sense that they're acquihiring + killing.

vazark•7m ago
The way i see it, cloudflare acquired celld. Deno was just given a decent burial as part of the package
moralestapia•29m ago
Hmm ... so why would they acquire it to let it die?
yxhuvud•27m ago
Classic acquihire? They allow customers to run javascript in their end nodes, surely the competence is useful.
corytheboyd•19m ago
Competitors use it as their serverless JS runtime, likely as simple as that.
jazzypants•11m ago
They bought it because Deno's business was struggling and celld is an open source version of cloudflare workers.
behnamoh•27m ago
Kinda feels like a rug pull, similar to Bun.
nchmy•27m ago
I missed this when I skimmed the post. Sad stuff. I'm a big fan of deno.
sebmellen•25m ago
Fuck me! We’re going to have to start our migration as soon as possible. I knew we were in a precarious spot after the layoffs, but this is a truly sad outcome.
edf13•22m ago
This is the real headline... and more so that it has been hidden away.
giancarlostoro•21m ago
Thats really upsetting ngl.
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