I wish to share, but not to helicopter parent. I've long felt this case ill served, from 1995 Perl CPAN's "you own the package name" (vs author-packagename-version triples), to 2025 github's impoverished support for communities of forks. No "past me wrote this; present me frees it to jam; future me isn't involved - play well together, and maybe someday I'll listen in or drop by". The emphasis has been on human ownership/control of code, and of limited human collaboration, rather than on code getting out there, building friendships and communities, having fun and flourishing with the humans.

"No one likes schleps" should be "no one likes to schlep."

They have you sign NDAs before you start working. The ideas are all really really stupid.

I do have my ideas, but I’m also humble enough to just accept I’ll probably never make any real money. I self taught my way straight to 6 figures ( back in 2016 when that still meant something). That’s enough really…

Be cool if you pulled it off.

I also didn't want to be used by some predator, to make them rich. I found a [less-than-perfect, but OK] company to work for, that had values I liked, and stayed there, for a long time. I got to hang with the really cool kids. I mean the ones that were so cool, no one knew who they were, because they didn't care about being cool. They just liked doing what they were doing, and they were the best at it.

I was the dumbest kid in the room, and I'm smarter than the average bear. I also got to play with some very cool toys.

But I was a manager, for most of that time, and I didn't want to give up coding. I didn't have a "shower clause" in my employment contract, so I spent a great deal of my extracurricular time, doing open-source stuff. I had an organization that could use my skills, so I worked with them.

Eventually, the cool ride was over (after almost 27 years), and I found myself ready to roll up my sleeves, and help make someone else rich.

But no one wanted me, so I was forced to retire, and I've never been happier.

I was just talking about this, yesterday, to a friend of mine, who sold his company, and is getting set to become a Man of Leisure. He's like me. He needs something to do, and I suspect that he'll do something cool.

I mentioned how upset I was, when I figured out that no one wanted me, but, after a year or so of following my own muse, I realized that I had been working at a state of chronic, low-grade misery, for over 30 years. I probably work harder now, than I ever did, drawing a salary, and I absolutely love it. This is what I've been working on, for the last month or so[0]. Still have a ways to go, but it's coming along great, and I've been learning a lot.

Here's a post that I wrote, some time ago, about how I like to approach things[1].

[0] https://github.com/RiftValleySoftware/ambiamara/tree/master/...

[1] https://littlegreenviper.com/miscellany/thats-not-what-ships...

It's been 2 years, and I can proudly say that i'm finally making more money than I did delivering packages on a bicycle in SF, which isn't much.

Getting rich was never in the cards for me, but not having to answer to a tyrannical boss every day is definitely a positive. Coming from a blue-collar background, that's pretty much the norm, and that sentiment has stuck with me.

I don't think that at all. I think he just has a different perspective on it than you do. Whilst your perspective is valid, some people actually do enjoy the work of coding, especially if they can do so in an environment where they can immediately check intermediate results and use those to shape their coding trajectory as they work, creating a tight OODA loop. (Hi, Lisp!)

> That's why "all your base belong to us" kind of contracts in which stuff made outside work COULD become property of the hiring company makes otherwise happy developers into depressive under-productive nightmares. Let them code the toy thing unharmed in their spare time, for fucks sake.

> Let it be the real thing. Stop this nonsense fairytale.

On this we can agree. I think that for programming to be fun it has to be something you want to see come into fruition, i.e., not any random thing someone else wants to see, done to their schedule by their rules. Good tech companies -- game studios in the 90s, Google in the early days, even Microsoft in the early days -- knew how to make the golden goose as comfortable as possible while slipping out the back with the eggs.

But in the late 90s, Jim McCarthy's "Beware of a guy in a room" became iron gospel among management types, who interpreted it as meaning that developers must be subjected to a panopticon in which what they are doing at all times is tracked and analyzed by the chain of command going up to the C level. Hence Scrum, SAFe, and all that malarkey, and we've forgotten how to "let 'em cook" as the kids say now.

I find computer systems beautiful. A system of parts interacting in a complex dance to process data. Each part effortlessly modifyable and reusable, executable by the generic machine people already own.

I love the puzzle of putting data together, of shaping it in main memory, and the joy of finding that previous shaping makes the current problem easier. The joy of finding a hidden algebra or transitivity.

All of these things go beyond the "tool" view of software and touches the "art" view. A painter doesn't find the painting useful, they find it beautiful.

I would be writing software, even if I want paid. I would however be working on vastly different software, and I think that's the OP's point.

Maybe to you. For some of us, it's also a form of self-expression, a hobby or a lifestyle.

In my experience coding for money and coding for fun is a very different experience. I know my worth, but I am also free to do whatever I want out of my working hours.

Life is rather what you make of it than the society perception of it.

One reason is that coding is so much more scalable than all of those. There are loads of stories of people who made some small thing that was useful, and were able to make a tidy profit on it (or sometimes a fairly large one).

I enjoy making homemade wines. Occasionally someone will try something I've made and ask if I'm thinking about selling it professionally. No way -- it's a fun hobby, but definitely not something I want to do in enough scale to be self-supporting.

I also enjoy languages, and developed an algorithm for helping me find material to read that's at the right level -- only a handful of words that I don't know. It's been incredibly helpful for me, and I'm sure it could be incredibly helpful to millions of people out there as well; so I quit my job and am trying to figure out how to make that happen:

https://www.laleolanguage.com

Look at any popular open source project and tell me not a single contributor was having fun while writing it.

I can give you examples of very high quality open source projects where I know for a fact that the person/team behind them were just having fun.

It's also a good filter for topics. Naturally, the topics of interest of others seem more valuable.

I am doing a similar thing on my blog. Generally, each topic must pass the test of: is this useful to at least some? And being commited to write means I can clarify and organize my thoughts.

So nothing to worry about, keep on experimenting and sharing.

If I played guitar professionally then I’d probably find it hard to not think about new pieces in the context of a gig-worthy repertoire.

I'm describing it in too vague terms to be appropriate, and most people might be thinking it in that way, but I genuinely think there's a part of it in a lot of the "I did this paid service as a weekend project" mentality.

Doing business is demanding, you've got compliance and documentation and code needs to be intelligible to other people and finances and marketing and planning and customer support and all that domain knowledge that allows you to catch more than one or two paying customers because your solution works in most of a sector of society and so on.

With this in mind you'll have an easy time seeing that your for fun, recreational project is not a business and that you can't think of it as one until users are starting to force you to by being so many or offering money for additional services.

Some people want to break out of the cycle, and you can't really blame them for it when the economy is hurting working people (ofcourse excluding that writing software is relative to other jobs a cushion job)

Now that I ended up finding a job as a waiter (of all things) I finally enjoy learning new things again. Before, I would get chronically stressed researching the job market, gathering keywords from job openings, consuming Udemy courses at 2x speed, using AI to plan the project and scaffold it. I was writing projects to save my life, because my finances are just that bad.

Surrendering and giving up the pursuit of work made all this mental load go away, and ironically made me progress in a personal skill level faster than anything else. I can now learn deeply. I can tinker with code to my heart's content. I can see all the warnings. I can research why this and that happen, without feeling like I have to "sigma grindset" every second.

Perhaps when the storm is gone with the whole "AI is gonna take our jobs" and the market demanding every keyword match, and I feel more confident in myself I'll try to get professional again. Or not. All I know is that I love programming.

I also bought Shenzhen I/O, because the idea of being able to program in a game seems fun. But after reading more, I didn't end up playing it because it would involve too much study of how the in-game computers work, and I'd get much more long-term satisfaction from studying real assembly languages etc.

The older I get, the less I care about career progression and the more I allow myself to just use code to explore thoughts or ideas.

I absolutely do. Money and power is a great motivator. I don't feel bad about any of it. I took my shot and continue to do so.

>What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it?

It was not. I made some good side money. I always joke that I program to feed my computer habit. The benefit of it is you actually code like you are making a product, and there is usually a big skill difference between someone coding for fun and someone coding to make an actual sellable product; it's the 80/20 rule. That last 80% is what separates the good from the great. Like Jobs said, "Real artists ship."