But on the other 9 breaths, you get to breath quite a lot of his other farts... So... your breath is really never Caesar-fart-free.
But as a consolation, most of humanity will breath your farts on every breath, so...
Ex - we see consistent, long term, patterns in weather that make it unlikely that this dispersion is anything close to "ideal gas in a chamber" style dispersion.
Further - we have all sorts of compounding effects. Ex - atmospheric escape is a real thing, plants do nitrogen fixation, hydrogen and oxygen can be bound up in the oceans, etc...
Maybe 2000 years is enough time for real random dispersion, maybe it's not. But it's a huge assumption baked into this that doesn't feel especially reasonable to me.
All we have is this:
>If we assume that a breath diffuses evenly throughout the atmosphere and that these molecules are preserved over time (a reasonable assumption—nitrogen is relatively inert)
Which... I challenge is likely not a particularly reasonable assumption to base this on.
It's still an atmosphere mostly made of nitrogen, on a scale vastly exceeding 2000 years.
I don't have an intuition for how molecules actually disperse, but I do know that general climate trends certainly aren't "random dispersion".
Big volcano eruptions make for pretty sunsets across the world. Nuclear testing fallout is detectable in everything since atmospheric nuclear testing began. Everywhere we find the K-P boundary, we find iridium. The counter-assumption (which may well be true!) is the counter-intuitive one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aerial_Superhighway.ogv
The jetstream blows at around 110 mph, and Earth's circumference at mid-northern latitudes is around 12500 miles, so it takes 12500/110=114 hours or just under 5 days for the jets to complete a lap around the planet, assuming we choose a molecule that doesn't take a diverging path on that lap. That's 73 laps per year, so 2000 years is nearly 150,000 times that the faster parts of the atmosphere have circled the globe, twisting, breaking, and reconnecting paths the whole time.
2k years is a long time for gas dispersion in such a "small" volume as the earth's atmosphere. early weather behaviour probably affected the distribution unevenly, but by now it should be relatively evenly distributed across the globe. no more or less in rome or italy. this is, however, as we say in sweden, a "guy's guess".
Similarly, there is a sensation from Adenosine for chemical cardioversion that creates a hot flushing feeling inside your body as it spreads, and it's quite the sensation to feel it going from your chest down to your extremities in a few seconds.
In other words, let’s hand-wave away the most interesting part of the question, and then come up with a trivial answer to whatever’s left.
It’s of course possible to track a single molecule if you really try hard. But this hasn’t been done since Caesar's time and the molecules have mixed. Even if we knew the exact state of the universe right now and could play back time perfectly it would be impossible to say that some particular molecules were part of his last breath.
Yes, I would agree. Perhaps too many. But it's a fun exercise.
It's interesting how often fermi estimation problems are used as proxy's for "intelligence". Something like: 'let's assess how well "they can think" - how many golf balls fit in a baseball stadium?' etc.
Often, doing well in these kinds of problems can more than makeup for a lack of specific knowledge in something someone is interested in assessing!
There are about 13,500 taxi medallions.
I'm probably taking this more seriously than it was intended above, but the idea that this is some sort of proxy for "thinking" or "intelligence" feels off to me; doing the math given the size of something might be thinking or intelligence, but knowing roughly "how big" something is seems more like intuition.
> If we assume that ... these molecules are preserved over time (a reasonable assumption—nitrogen is relatively inert),
But they are not inert. Single UV photon can break single N2 molecule bond.
Elemental N is highly reactive and will form new N2 molecule pretty fast, but that is NEW and different molecule!
N2 is not stable over period of 2000 years under constant exposure to solar UV radiation!
So what's the rate of this photodisassociation?
I found it weirdly hard to Google an answer on this. Firstly, rates are given in terms of decays per second instead of in half-life which would be more relevant for our purposes. Secondly, it seems to be well studied in the interstellar medium than in atmospheric conditions.
Anyway, the most relevant measurements I could find [0] say photodisassociation of N2 in the interstellar medium happens at a rate of approximately 10^-10 s^-1 - i.e. every 10 billion seconds on average.
Caesar died about 60 billion seconds ago [1] so at that rate, many of the molecules would still be alive.
However, we don't live in the interstellar medium. By interstellar standards, we pretty much live on the surface of the sun. The average point in the ISM is maybe 2 light years from the nearest star [2] but we are only 10^-5 ly away. They're all the same photons, but radiation intensity diminishes with the square of the distance, so our nitrogen molecules should disassociate every 1 second instead. If that's true, Caesar's last breath had its last surviving molecules persist for only a minute or two after Caesar himself.
[0] https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2013/07/aa20625-... https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2013/07/aa20625-...
[1] https://math.answers.com/math-and-arithmetic/How_many_second...
[2] https://www.livescience.com/space/how-far-apart-are-stars
Way to take all the fun out of it..
Caesar's last breath: ~0.5 liters (typical final exhale)
Total atmospheric volume: Earth's atmosphere has a mass of about 5×10^18 kg. Using the ideal gas law with average molecular weight of air (~29 g/mol), this gives roughly 4×10^44 molecules total.
Molecules in Caesar's breath: 0.5 liters at standard conditions contains about 1.3×10^22 molecules.
Your inhale: ~0.5 liters also contains about 1.3×10^22 molecules.
The fraction: Caesar's molecules represent (1.3×10^22)/(4×10^44) = 3.25×10^-23 of all atmospheric molecules.
Final answer: (1.3×10^22) × (3.25×10^-23) ≈ 0.4 molecules
So statistically, you inhale less than one molecule from Caesar's last breath with each inhalation, but over the course of a day's breathing, you'd likely inhale several molecules that were once in his lungs as he died.
lkmill•11h ago
edit: itchy trigger finger, think i subconsciously wanted to be the first to comment. it is stated quite early that molecules preservation is assumed. still think it would be more correct and just as interesting to discuss atoms, not molecules.
edit 2: quick research has taught me that nitrogen gas, n2, and naturally occurring isotopes do not even have a half life. they do not radioactively decay. til.
oatsandsugar•11h ago
lkmill•11h ago
tgv•11h ago
SJC_Hacker•10h ago
jasongill•9h ago
kjs3•9h ago
Baeocystin•1h ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20080725045740/http://www.solari...
cyberax•9h ago
hnuser123456•9h ago
Also, bismuth was once thought to be the most massive "fully" stable element, but turns out does decay with a half life of 10^19 years, compared to the universe's age of ~10^10 years.
Neutrons decay into a proton/electron pair after 15 minutes when not part of a nucleus.
Protons appear to be fully stable for any practical considerations, however they might decay after 10^30 years.
scheme271•1h ago
pvg•11h ago
victorNicollet•10h ago
The O-O and N-N bonds are much stronger than H-O bonds, but there are still atmospheric processes that can break them. For instance, O2 undergoes photodissociation under ultraviolet light and recombines into O3 ozone, and N2 likely also undergoes photodissociation. And obviously, the fact that living beings breathe O2...
satvikpendem•7h ago
raattgift•2h ago
https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/largehadron...
For a single proton, though, one always measures (with available measurement technology) a small excess of quarks: two excess up quarks and one excess down quark. That the valence quark model of hadrons works is weird. Who ordered that?
The excess quarks are not "the same" quarks every time you probe your carefully selected and isolated and cold sample proton. Indeed, today's valence quarks in your pet proton are not guaranteed to exist tomorrow, even if the proton stays trapped -- particle creation and annihilation are furious inside, and there are all sorts of other disturbances of quarks that go on in there.
Why atoms? While much calmer, there's still plenty of crazy stuff happening in atoms -- even a neutral hydrogen atom has a bunch of photons and positrons and excess electrons floating around "inside", with an energy fraction proportional to the fine structure constant and with no guarantees that they were there yesterday. Is it the "same" atom at that level? Also, for most of the hydrogen in an exhalation, it probably will be in and out of various electron-swapping configurations over the years. Water gets pretty crazy with its ions, for example.
BurningFrog•6h ago
I don't know how often the average water CO₂/H₂O molecule gets dismantled this way, but there can't be many left since 44 BC.
victorNicollet•3h ago
Of course, CO₂ contents of the atmosphere have varied over the last 2000 years, and not all CO₂ is produced into or consumed from the atmosphere (it can be dissolved in surface water, etc).
EDIT: since there's much more O₂ than CO₂ in the atmosphere, a given O₂ molecule has a 8% chance to not be broken down by respiration over 2000 years.
adonovan•4h ago
You may be right, but according to quantum mechanics, you can't really meaningfully talk about the "same" atoms, or any particles, because they don't have identities. There was a particle here, now there's a particle there, but we can't say exactly where it was at all the times in between, and it may not have been at any particular place: its amplitudes may have passed through two doors at once.