It is more national security & military adjacent
I’d stand up a joint agency for this requirement across DOD, NASA, NOAA, FAA, and Commercial Space/Newspace.
10M annual spend, rest allocated to spend for services
Could def be done for cheaper than 55M
I have a feeling that the current US administration would not back such an idea, so this will end up back with the DOD, maybe the Space Force. Despite the DOD saying quite clearly they would prefer NOAA to do it
If the US Federal Government spent ZERO money on anything except:
1. Social Security
2. Medicare & Medicaid
3. National Defense
4. Net Interest on the Public Debt
5. Income Security
6. Veterans Benefits & Services
7. Federal Civilian & Military Retirement and Disability
... the US would still have a sizable deficit.
All the hoopla surrounding science spending, education, DEI, FDA, housing, foreign aid, disaster relief, etc., doesn't really address some huge issues if the goal is to reduce deficit spending.
Red herring. It’s not. It’s never been. We’re blowing out the deficit by trillions.
The motivation isn’t anything about the deficit. It’s that NOAA counters the climate narrative a narrow band of idiots would prefer to believe.
I hope all that stuff we bought with $36T was worth it!
No need for past tense. We’re currently in the most intense—the biggest, most beautiful, one might say—phase of deficit accumulation in American history.
Also let's not forget Sharpie Gate and how the petty Orange Emperor appointed a climate science denier to a top position in NOAA.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/12/912301325/longtime-climate-sc...
Yet another systemic rat fucking so somebody can make a buck. It's only ever about the money.
Which means Starling would probably pay for most of it.
Then there are various spy satellites countries have that they dont want tracked? Or does the data from NOAA include spy satellites in strange orbits?
Then they’d switch to a user fee. Perhaps even at a profit, such that it’s deficit reducing.
That isn’t what they’re doing because that isn’t what this is about.
Don't all Starlink satellites have a plan to deorbit responsibly; specifically, do nothing, which results in a relatively quick deorbitting?
Starlink satellites are in low-Earth-orbit which can't accumulate much space debris, because everything deorbits naturally within a few years.
What would the free market solution be here? Someone builds all the infrastructure to track all the satellites, and maybe more than one (if not you have a monopoly) person does it. Then they charge for it?
But someone doesn't use it an now we have more space junk ...
If anything a government organizing this and everyone utilizing it seems like it makes for more efficient / lower risk situation with satellites. Everyone just gets on with more important business.
They’re the bag holder here, and this system could be built for a marginal hit to their bottom line in exchange for a huge amount of de-risking across their entire supply chain.
Insurance companies have the right incentive but they don’t need to be the ones building it. Safer cars get cheaper insurance, so there’s clear market pressure there without insurance companies having to build their own cars…
Pollution, kinds that suffer the “tragedy of the common”, are a good example where regulation is necessary to prevent a race to the bottom. But that’s a pretty simple and straightforward thing to democratically vote on without government spending.
I think the solution is fairly simple: private companies build these capabilities and offer them as a service. The idea that there won’t be a marketplace for this service seems misguided too. Adversarial militaries will want their own systems, likely contracted out to private companies, which will likely offer civilian use around the world…
Also, the US government and it's affiliated institutions already has networks of ground stations and the insurance industry doesnt.
So now what? Do you try to make every company in the world with a sat to post a damages bond? Held by who? The UN? Adjudicated by which courts? This is naive.
Collective action problems are real, and this is one of them.
What kind of solution you’re proposing? Why can’t we suffice with just regulation?
The sleazy (edited - shouldn't call this standard) playbook for old oil wells is for the operators to sell them to a shadier operator company and transfer the risk. The shady firm then siphons the money out and declares bankruptcy.
The standard cycle is that they pump while the money is good. Then when commodity prices crash, those shell companies are insolvent. Industry lobbies for easements on their cash reserves as a favour during the "temporary downturn". The shady guys just walk away with their pockets stuffed full of money, and the regulator is left holding the bag.
Most operators are responsible, and decommission the wells. But the industry has to maintain a whole insurance policy for "orphan wells", and it is always under-funded. Alberta alone is going eat a couple of billion in orphan cleanup.
This process only gets harder when the satellite is "owned" by a shell-company domiciled in Mauritius.
The actual solution is a series of international treaties. The USA government has signed a global promise that they are directly liable for any object launched by any actor in the USA . All treaty signatories are on the same hook. The government in turn then has to track them all, else how do they manage their liability?
How could a private company possibly play this role in a global treaty process? Over decades?
https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/lia...
A UN program for weather forecasting and satellite tracking, complete with open data sources and REST APIs, would be a boon. Unfortunately, the current organizational structure makes that impossible due to the vested interests of the respective Security Council members. We’re more likely to see the EU take up those mantles.
Whether that would happen is to be seen, but now it's down right impossible.
While this is true, I suspect that putting the UN in charge of all global matters will cause them to become such a hegemony.
Until we have multiple planets (or equivalents), I think a multi-polar world with multiple superpowers capable and motivated to work on such things is important.
Hopefully the superpowers will keep their fighting to "indirectly", like the USA and the USSR used to.
Co-incidentally, home discussion about "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" this evening.
…but also I think NINBYism is the wrong metaphor for the point you make: if everyone NINBYs housing, we have an end to housing and all suffer the shortage; if everyone NINBYs war, we have an end to war.
But I get your vibe.
It has nothing to do with who is or isn't on the security council. That entire organization is full of the kinds of people who occupy the average government in the world, which is a very low standard of excellence. The UN has neither data infrastructure nor technical expertise to do something like this in any case.
REST APIs? One of the big issues is that the data sources are measured in exabytes these days. That means there can only practically be a single copy. This creates an insurmountable hurdle: most countries contributing data want to keep their data in their country. This makes any use of that data computationally intractable because there is not enough bandwidth connect the disparate data sources together. Also, given this extreme (and mostly unnecessary) bandwidth consumption, now they have to severely restrict access to the data to keep the system usable, effectively making it no longer public.
I've been to this particular rodeo several times. I have zero confidence it could deliver on the promise.
It really would require someone with a singular vision, the technical expertise, and the courage to pull it off. A committee of bureaucrats isn't going to make it happen.
We want to give out all the data we possibly can for free.
It's paid for by our enterprise SSA tools, but the spacebook site will always be free and not need a login to get access to the public APIs.
Next month we're rolling out a historical API so you can get the data all the way back to the 1950s and visualize it in the explorer.
tomrod•6mo ago
This type of program has high value per dollar spent. It's an asset, not a waste. The first order, second order, and even third order effects are very large.
Let us get/return to more reasonable principles for doing these budget evaluations and requests.
nwatson•6mo ago
staplers•6mo ago
yapyap•6mo ago
slater•6mo ago
JumpCrisscross•6mo ago
Someone would if given the time and infrastructure. This, on the other hand, is more DOGE-style idiocy.
tetris11•6mo ago
sho_hn•6mo ago
Even as an anime grump, I liked this one.
throwaway6734•6mo ago
Rebelgecko•6mo ago
alistairSH•6mo ago
conartist6•6mo ago
The political intent behind a new dark age makes sense if you think of the goal as being to destroy competent institutions which represent a real threat to an anti-science, post-truth administration
tetha•6mo ago
This might also be a program in which the goals of a privatized for-profit company are rather bad in the broader context. If you pay me millions to track and possibly control your satellite in orbit so it doesn't collide... I'll invest in rocket companies to launch more satellites. Even if they are very silly satellites.
After all, if they collide, the debris will most likely miss the shareholders, and then you get more satellites to get contracts for.
And who cares if some of those invaluable scientific systems with year-long plans get knocked out?
moralestapia•6mo ago
Care to elaborate?
What's the value that comes back?
Rebelgecko•6mo ago
moralestapia•6mo ago
cco•6mo ago
moralestapia•6mo ago
Bootvis•6mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_collision
mschuster91•6mo ago
We've been lucky that this is the only publicly known satellite to collide with another satellite, other than satellites that got shot down as a demonstration of power.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision
[2] https://www.space.com/969-china-space-debris-collide-orbit.h...
notahacker•6mo ago
Satellite operators obtain much their space situational awareness data directly or indirectly from US govt sources. The fact that collisions are presently infrequent because satellite operators act on that data isn't a particularly good reason to eliminate much of it
adgjlsfhk1•6mo ago
andsoitis•6mo ago
Why should the (US) taxpayer foot the bill rather than the companies who operate and profit from the satellites?
adgjlsfhk1•6mo ago
CamperBob2•6mo ago
epistasis•6mo ago
tomrod•6mo ago
Food at a high level, yes. Pork specifically, no.
(I know you didn't mean literal pork, but thinking through the spectrum here).
tbrownaw•6mo ago
tomrod•6mo ago
Subsidizing production of next gen/green energy production and grid operations, yes.
DamonHD•6mo ago
https://www.pnas.org/doi/epub/10.1073/pnas.2501605122
tomrod•6mo ago
pstuart•6mo ago
Yes, military investments have paid off in new technologies (e.g., Arpanet) but as a whole only reward the owners of the Military Industrial Complex.
laverya•6mo ago
convolvatron•6mo ago
and its pretty easily to cleave off defense spending for basic research performed by universities from the more applied R&D that defense contractors do, much of that from the black budget. this is a place where every visitor leaves shaking their heads at the overt corruption and waste. but its necessary to have such programs in general to support our common goal of self-autonomy as a nation.
so if we're going to serious as a democratic political body about trying to get the most value from our tax money, we can't really can't fixate on reductionist statements that assert that defense or social support money is an unalloyed bad or good. we really need better transparency and to actually dig into the details.
toss1•6mo ago
Fukyima (sp?) was right about the end of history sort of happening when all countries of the world embrace liberal democracy, but he was very wrong that we are anywhere near that point.
Until then, only strength will deter or oppose the aggressors.
pstuart•6mo ago
Let me get this out of the way to quiet you down: I recognize the need for (and the value of) a strong military.
People rightfully worry about waste, fraud, and abuse of government funds, but that should extend to all avenues of the government -- not just the stuff you don't like.
A GOP Secretary of Defense had announced he was going to investigate two trillion dollars of funds that couldn't be accounted for; and then 9/11 happened. Oops. Last we heard of that.
We all know that the military can waste money like the best of us, so lets find a happy median where we protect ourselves but avoid setting piles of money on fire just because it's end of the budget cycle.
A somewhat validating concurrence: https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2023/06/05/th...
toss1•6mo ago
I've got zero problem going after W, F, & A.
However, it is often (and especially now) is a mere cover for a LOT of other even more massively wasteful concepts.
In ANY large organization, and in ANY organization doing innovative work, there will ALWAYS be significant literal waste, especially when viewed in hindsight. Trying to root it all out is merely a straight-up recipe for different kinds of waste — a dense bureaucracy of requirements but the waste is predictable and "accepted". I do work as a 2nd- or 3rd-tier military supplier, and working with "CUI" (Confidential Unclassified Information) has a very significant overhead, and every single contract comes with a list of huge "flow-downs", literally pages of lists of federal regulations that apply to the contracts — and that is just the list of regulations, reading the actual regs is hundreds or thousands of pages — and that is all to prevent WF&A.
Start talking innovative weapons systems, hardware and software, and we have ALL of the issues of any kind of hardware and software development, sometimes the need to very rapidly develop, and all kinds of constraints, and when a program that looks good doesn't pan out, people screaming "WASTE!!!". Often it happens even when the program works in the end.
Even in bog-standard stuff with a long lead time, such as artillery shells, the cries of "WASTE!!" are a problem. The situation in Ukraine is showing that we have very low and inadequate artillery shell production capacity and inventory for fighting an actual war. Startup time for new production lines in measured in years. Yet, to prevent ""WASSTE!!" almost all of it was shut down. And now we cannot supply enough for even a tightly constrained active hot war. But, if the USG had done the right thing and paid contractors to keep active those lines and stockpiled millions of rounds, everyone would be screaming bloody murder about the "WASSSTE!!".
And what happens when you do go after it without being careful? Just look at DOGE: In an early example they fired the people in the energy department responsible for safety of our nuclear weapons stockpile because the "efficiency" people literally did not know what the DOE did; they had to scramble to hire them back when the press called it out. Or, this week, it turned out that the NOAA employee in central Texas responsible for coordinating severe weather warnings with local officials had taken the DOGE early buyout, so was not available to help. NOAA still did the best they could with what they had, but we're now picking hundreds of dead bodies out of river banks and trees.
How efficient is that?
Yes, there are always problems of efficiency at scale, and you can always find somebody scamming something. But even some of the DOGE employees that quit publicly expressed surprise at how actually efficiently the govt ran. So, I must say I'm a bit skeptical of the $2T unaccounted funds (and over what period?). That said, we could definitely do better in terms of budget rules, and the "use it or lose it" rule creates problems. The question is whether or not it creates more problems than other sets of rules.
pstuart•6mo ago
toss1•6mo ago
xpe•6mo ago
"Return on investment" (ROI) is only the start of the conversation. ROI is only part of the context. Think of it as a 3-tuple: (ROI, Target, TimeHorizon). One has to define all three for it to be clear. By "Target" I mean the target population and/or impact area. By "TimeHorizon" I mean the period of time over which the ROI is calculated.
This entire comment is intended to be completely non-ideological. Bring your own values and preferred ways of organizing society. (I'm not going to change your deep-seated values, anyway.) But to be intellectually honest, we have to say what we mean.
Even truth-seeking libertarians who prefer market-based approaches understand that many market-based mechanisms are sometimes not well suited for servicing to "hard to reach" customers. Practically, this might mean geographically remote. Generally, it means having a set of characteristics that make them sufficiently out of the parameter space that a market will serve. Some examples include: rural broadband and low-income urban areas that need medical services.
kenjackson•6mo ago
ModernMech•6mo ago
As Timothy Snyder put it, authoritarian political capital is based on creating a "reservoir of fear" that the authoritarian can draw upon whenever he needs legitimacy or a mandate to enact cruel and inhumane policies. The reservoir of fear is created by making groups desperate, and you don't make them desperate by meeting their needs through funding government assistance programs.
Instead what you do as an authoritarian is you "other" and arrest their neighbors, take away their health care, allow their homes to be flooded, take away their information channels, prevent them from going to school, make sure they're unemployed, make food more scarce... make them desperate enough, blame their desperation on the "others" and they'll be happy to enact whatever cruelties you ask them to on the "others" if they think it'll lessen their misery, or at the very least bring more misery to the "others".
LorenPechtel•6mo ago
There is a lot of trouble with bureaucrats defending fiefdoms that would be better consolidated, but you can't fix that with an axe.
ajmurmann•6mo ago
That said, regulations that make the economy less dynamic and slow stuff down have a high opportunity cost. While it's bureaucrats that write the implementation details and enforce them, it's congress who requires it to happen with AFAIK often little regard to how it would be executed in practice.
AnthonyMouse•6mo ago
The vast majority of the government budget is "entitlements and military" because donors have their pork classified as those things when they don't want it to be cut. A lot of entitlement programs are structured as handouts to the companies providing those services (e.g. drug and healthcare companies, or landlords) or vote buying of affluent retirees who don't actually need a government subsidy. And I'd like to see someone try to claim with a straight face that there is no waste in the military budget.
But even within those budgets, most of the waste and corruption isn't a single program going to a single place. It's millions of programs that each waste millions of dollars and collectively waste trillions of dollars. And then it doesn't matter if you classify the program as military or entitlements or something else; what matters is if the program is worth the candle.
The problem is that everybody will say that their program is worth it, many them are lying, and it's hard to tell who isn't.
But the thing that's unambiguously true is that the amount of government revenue has been stable as a percentage of GDP for generations and has been growing in terms of real dollars per capita, and yet the amount of government spending has outpaced that by a huge and growing amount.
Is DOGE making a hash of things? Maybe, but then let's do a better job instead of using it as an excuse to keep running reckless deficits until the largest item in the federal budget is interest.
LorenPechtel•6mo ago
DOGE is an artificial stupid looking for keywords. It doesn't understand anything.
JumpCrisscross•6mo ago
It should be incredibly clear that the motivation for these folks isn’t reducing government spending (or cutting waste).
The problem is the programme is at NOAA, and NOAA tells a story about the climate that some folks don’t like. So they trash the messenger and his tools.
oklder•6mo ago
Shock to the sort who have seen inflation get to where $600k/yr buying power in 2025 is equivalent to $200k/yr in the 1980s and well beyond the tiny earnings that would have been quite common when Chuck Grassley was a wee lad.
It’s biological ossification. Physics is ageist. We should be reminding the elders rather than enable and ignore their ageism against youth they leverage through politics.
zer00eyz•6mo ago
This is an international issue being funded by the US taxpayer regardless of their own utilization of said services.
Programs like these need to exist, but services like starlink should be the ones footing the bill. The military and weather services would need larger budgets to fund their portion of this effort so some of it would come back to "general taxes" but a much smaller amount.
Meanwhile, All those other groups and nations with launch capabilities and a vested intrest in NOT having issues could be contributing too.
> Let us get/return to more reasonable principles for doing these budget evaluations and requests.
These efforts need to be funded with a tax to support them, and not all be drawn from the same general fund. It would make the arguments about "taxes" and "spending" much more reasonable.
ourmandave•6mo ago
https://www.fcc.gov/general/universal-service-fund
Star Link and other companies can charge back their customers what they pay into the fund.
Like how AT&T hits me for the Fed USF, the 20 States Fund, and state and local taxes.
https://www.att.com/legal/terms.otherWirelessFeeSchedule.htm...
jandrewrogers•6mo ago
In recent years, the operating environment in orbital space has changed rapidly, and it isn't just the number of objects. These changes are outside the design assumptions of traditional orbital traffic systems, degrading their effectiveness. In response to this reality, governments with significant space assets have been investing in orbital traffic systems that are capable of dealing with the modern environment. However, these rely heavily on classified technology and capability to address the limitations of the older systems.
An argument could be made that it no longer makes sense to fund a public system that is descending into obsolescence due to lack of capability and which can't be meaningfully fixed because that would require exposing classified technical capabilities that no one is willing to expose. In this scenario, the private sector is acting as an offramp from a system that had no future technically.
Space has turned into an interesting place, in the curse sense. It isn't as simple as it used to be.
counters•6mo ago
But that explanation isn't being offered by the powers-that-be. So there's no point trying to rationalize it post-hoc.
There's no evidence that this is anything more than yet another round of ideologically-fueled maladministration.
jandrewrogers•6mo ago
Governments rarely give genuine explanations for their actions and rarely need to. Much easier to use a plausible soundbite related to the current thing. Most people aren't paying attention anyway.
counters•6mo ago
This is an absurdly cynical take. It certainly doesn't jive with how NOAA has historically operated - which has necessitated as much transparency as possible, because that is the only way it can engender the trust with the public necessary to steward life and property.
The standards have historically been much higher, and we ought to strive for them to be higher still.
jandrewrogers•6mo ago
My take isn't cynical, it is what I've seen first hand. I've worked for the US government (and others) and NGOs off and on since Clinton was President. The standards were pretty mediocre when I first got involved and they've only become worse.
The standards were probably higher before the 1990s. All of these organizations have a few true believers in the mission but those are the old guard. They've slowly been replaced by the equivalent of DMV bureaucrats, even in the more science-y parts of the government. People interested in doing science have known those organizations are not where you go to do science since long before the current administration, which has been a long, vicious spiral.
counters•6mo ago
notahacker•6mo ago
But that seems like a very poor argument for removing a system which might be approaching obsolescence in military terms but is still relied on for a rapidly increasing number of civil satellites to make rapidly increasing conjunction avoidance manoeuvres (and is also relatively inexpensive). Anything that makes them less aware threatens defence and critical civil government infrastructure too, and the private sector doesn't exactly seem to be embracing it as an exciting opportunity - look at the quote from Slingshot! Plus if anything the changes taking place would seem to be a reason to invest more in orbital traffic control with regulation to make it more like the FAA. You don't have to give away the classified tracking tech if you're barking out move orders rather than simply sharing predictions so operators come to their own conclusions about conjunction risk, and likewise orders and requirements for operators to broadcast position and intent are a much better way of dealing with a future of private servicing missions and space megastructures than "let them buy their own tracking data and make their own decisions"
tomrod•6mo ago
browningstreet•6mo ago
This is privatization and federal dismantling, and it’s happening so fast and recklessly it will also show up as cultural and civil destruction too. He’s wrecking America so that technocrats can buy it all up.
There’s no intended upside for citizens or for the society they make up. People die and his supporters shrug and defend. It’s Microsoft’s embrace, extend, extinguish as political policy, but reduced by hyperscaling to “eviscerate”.
tomrod•6mo ago
It is so weird to live in a world where the progressive movement is a better supporter of Chesterton's fence than the allegedly conservative GOP and even the corporate/neoliberal wing of the controlled opposition.
browningstreet•6mo ago
The socials are replete with incremental accounting of how each step aligns with Project 2025. No shit. So, many of his voters didn’t read Project 2025, or if they did.. they’re not playing it forward to see what it looks like 10 years in the future.
But what feels true, too, is that the DNC hasn’t read it either. Or if they have, they’re not working against it. I know there are efforts in courts to deny some of these things, and that’s commendable.. but there are no real social or political unities arising to play offense in the next political cycle.
So we have very little defense, and almost no offense. And the referees are bought.
tomrod•6mo ago
browningstreet•6mo ago
What’s especially alarming is that they’ve learned they don’t have to do anything in the dark. Epstein may be a small blip in that, but we’ll see how the story goes in the coming weeks.
slater•6mo ago
fakedang•6mo ago
Yeah, it's not right to blame the Dems for this, but the Reps are responsible for this shitshow and far from redemption. The Dems are the only possible counterforce in the US (unlike most other countries), but they seem to be inclined to do jack shit to assume that role.
efnx•6mo ago
fakedang•6mo ago
Instead, like all entities doing business in the US, foreign and otherwise, we'll just find novel ways to extract more from the US and send it elsewhere.
resize2996•6mo ago
As a citizen of the world, this option absolutely remains available to you. As an extractive capitalist, I imagine you will continue to fuel the populist movements you're analyzing, but reminder: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
fakedang•6mo ago
Eh, it depends. To put it succinctly, a leading investor from the sovereign wealth fund of an autocratic Gulf state once told me that while the Republican govt., especially under Trump, is super friendly to letting them get away with shit, a Democrat government is better for returns. From an investment standpoint, everyone craves stability and is happy to double down and reinvest, but given cases like Trump, we're happy to move out our American extractions.
That high rent Americans pay to their landlords? Yeah, we're LPs of Blackstone, who brag about bleeding renters dry annually. That new war Mr President wants to start? Carlyle is very happy about its strong showing. All those farm running out of water in California, Arizona, etc.? They're happily eating local mutton and dairy derived from cows, goats and sheep fed on American alfalfa. Oh, and my mom absolutely loves those water-hungry almonds you grow there, especially when they come for a nice hefty discount.
tremon•6mo ago
- people are being disappeared in broad daylight, by masked mercenary squads and without due process
- the military has already been deployed domestically
- courts have been neutered/ignored
- the supreme court generally rules in favour of the regime, and when it doesn't even the supreme court gets ignored
- the first political adversaries have already been assassinated
- the majority of the Senate is happily cheering on all of the above
All three branches of government are already fully under control of this regime. Add to that the many agencies that have been gutted or clipped, and the dismantling of healthcare and social security. What do you think will be left of the US' institutions in 18 months?
arrowsmith•6mo ago
k099•6mo ago
browningstreet•6mo ago
The Rosie O’Donnell thing today is another demonstration of his commitment to iterating against norms. He’ll push and push until he finds a front that collapses in his favor. The whole idea of the unassailable rights of citizens will continue to be tested. The Democrats need a “no F’ing way” line to hold. An American born citizen should be an easy line to defend. We’ll see what kind of pushback surfaces.
overfeed•6mo ago
A certain German clergyman write a poem about this.
The Constitution applies to everyone on US soil, ceding any ground undermines the next norm to be broken. It's a deliberate scope creep from Criminal illegal immigrants -> illegal immigrants -> immigrant-looking and criminals in general -> enemies of the state and criminal/enemy sympathizers. Having to "defend" American-born citizens means you've ceded a lot of ground, and are nearing your last stand.
heavyset_go•6mo ago
The direction doesn't matter, the barometer is in hell and so are we.
vjvjvjvjghv•6mo ago
politithunk•6mo ago
My evidence for this is Mamdani. He won handily, and he crushed it with young men. And young people in general, but also among middle age people.
Mandani is strongly pro trans. But he's also putting forward a platform of values that people actually care about. Housing, affordability, wages, access to food and healthcare. He's not just "not the other guy", he's focused on painting a picture that resonates with many people.
And he didn't have to abandon trans people to do it.
master_crab•6mo ago
One clarifying viewpoint (does not counter what you have stated about Mamdani): I don’t believe the democrats were ever too focused on trans rights. The Republicans just do a better job selling woke criticisms and claiming all dems care about is LGBTQ rights. And the lack of a solution from the dems for all the problems Mamdani is addressing, fed that narrative.
vjvjvjvjghv•6mo ago
mandmandam•6mo ago
The DNC are sheepdogs, at best. Their role is to shepherd any sort of leftist energy into safely neutered channels. And science in general has big 'leftist energy'.
The campaign promises: "We'll end corporate donations! We'll end executive orders! We'll copper-fasten Roe! We'll end ICE! We'll stop the illegal forever wars! We'll legalize cannabis!" - have now devolved to, "vote for us and if you're lucky the Gestapo we funded won't raid your house in the middle of the night without a search warrant - or if they do, at least they won't be masked".
So, no. We're not going to get much help from the guys that 'failed' [0] to stop a rapist insurrectionist con-man from taking the Presidency, and it's really pretty silly to have any hope in them whatsoever.
0 - https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...
galangalalgol•6mo ago
politithunk•6mo ago
I'm seeing the old party in folks like Mamdani, rallying around policies that actually help working class folks, even if it costs some money to do so.
galangalalgol•6mo ago
overfeed•6mo ago
Given the choice between losing their big-money donors or losing elections, the current Democratic party probably prefers to lose elections. The gap between party and/or party leadership and its voters has never been wider, no doubt in part due to Citizens United
madaxe_again•6mo ago
Trump is a symptom, not a cause - the embodiment of the inexorable collective decay of the idea of “America”, set against the slow collapse of a global order built on forgotten consensuses.
Empires and structures inevitably decay and ultimately fail in the same way - reification of that which was once novel, the pollution of minds with layers of abstraction so divorced from any objective reality that they find irreconcilable differences in the symbol maps they use to describe their world.
Like with Newton, any force you exert against an object will be met with an exact opposing force. The net result is just the production of waste energy. The fight becomes the system.I earnestly think the best thing we can be doing with our time against this backdrop is preserving knowledge and building stable islands of coherency amidst the growing chaos. The dark ages are often blamed on Christianity, but the reality is more that they were a result of the might of Rome - people forgot how to do things, how to exist in a society, as rather than understanding these things themselves, they relied upon the map that was handed to them and took it as reality.
That’s the risk we face now. Not Trump. Not whatever comes next - but the slow, uncomprehending loss of the ability to make sense of the world at all.
anigbrowl•6mo ago
They need to develop parallel atavistic messaging that bypasses the prefrontal cortex and goes straight for the limbic system, but they're (mostly) terrible at this because they're so conflict averse. Democrats are the party that always wins gold stars at policy debate but can't figure out how to avoid getting shoved in a locker afterward.
vkou•6mo ago
tomrod•6mo ago
Make no mistake, MAGA is exactly what the folks that felt they failed Nixon hoped for.
buu700•6mo ago
Conservatism isn't an ideology unto itself, but merely a pointer to some other ideology based on a prioritization of caution and stability over first-principles thinking. There's nothing wrong with that, per se; at an organizational or societal scale, more conservative influence just means higher activation energy to move forward with major decisions. Excess conservatism can ossify a suboptimal status quo, but too little can lead to major mistakes, regressions, or whiplash between governing philosophies and policies.
Even if aspects of a particular status quo are obviously bad (e.g. slavery), there's a difference between defending such aspects on a first principles basis and doing so based on "tradition" or "this is how it's always been". Of course the latter can result in ordinary people staking out positions that look monstrous in hindsight, but on the flip side sometimes Chesterton's fence is there for a reason. For every good thing conservatives have opposed (e.g. American democracy and emancipation), one could just as easily rattle off a list of bad things they've opposed (e.g. French Revolution, end of the Weimar Republic, Cultural Revolution, Challenger launch, Arab Spring). We also have no idea how many other historical disasters simply never occurred as a result of conservative resistance.
Of course, the modern popular bastardization of these terms into "whatever I think the [blue/red] guys support" would make my comment endlessly confusing to most Americans. It will never not be amusing to me that half the population of the land of freedom has somehow turned an etymological cousin of "liberty" into a dirty word.
buu700•6mo ago
microtonal•6mo ago
beezlewax•6mo ago
tremon•6mo ago
gdbsjjdn•6mo ago
toss1•6mo ago
idiotsecant•6mo ago
apwell23•6mo ago
blackguardx•6mo ago
apwell23•6mo ago
this sentence is ridiculous. he did not "make" $36 billion.
resize2996•6mo ago
apwell23•6mo ago
idiotsecant•6mo ago
apwell23•6mo ago
darkmighty•6mo ago
Evil alone (i.e. intelligent evil) isn't as dangerous most of the time, because usually it's manifested as ultra-egotism -- usually if they're smart enough they don't come to government at all. Because, as Trump saw, that's just asking to get shot in the face; although sometimes e.g. in the form of racism taken as a life goal, there's more power-seeking, but then intelligence excludes most stupid forms of racism as simply demonstrably false, and it's very difficult to run on blatantly evil missions like that, post-Hitler.
Stupid alone obviously is useless: they usually don't even achieve power, and if by sheer luck they do, assuming they're not evil, they just fumble around and ask for assistance without too much damage, and might end up resigning or being effectively sidelined.
Now Trump isn't 100% stupid, or 100% evil. He's a very dangerous combination: he probably really doesn't believe in climate change due to very seriously stupid propaganda (in turn produced and stimulated by evil parties) from the far-right/inforwars/whatever, which is pretty stupid. You can even disagree climate change is harmful for yourself (some scientists even did -- at least a few decades ago), but denying it just reflects not having studied the matter at all or listened to anyone that understands a tiny bit of the science. And he is evil in the sense that he might think that, even if this were true, the US stands to profit from oil (again, evil and stupid!). He is evil in his reckless commitment to rile up hate speech, while not seeing the policies he is pursuing are incredibly stupid, and just self-destructive.
The end result is I expect this to be a huge enormous mess for the US, but also for the world. We live in the same planet, and unlike some who like to cheer on their perceived enemies' demise, everyone will be affected if the US (and for example the science they support) destroys so much value. Just like Russia and others, they hold massive nuclear arsenals. I shudder at those who cheer for US's total demise.
The hopeful thing is that insanity inevitably shows how great sanity is. Evil tends to self-destruct. Just do what you can, and brace for impact. Then rebuild from the wreckage. Never lose hope in human potential for good stuff. Good night and good luck.
heavyset_go•6mo ago
Racism, ironically, doesn't discriminate. Anyone can be racist, even otherwise "intelligent" people. I agree that racism precludes my idea of intelligence, but there are plenty of conventionally intelligent people with some really stupid beliefs across the spectrum.
Second, evil can self-destruct, but it can also reign for millennia.
Both thoughts are terrifying.
darkmighty•6mo ago
Also, I don't really like to portray people as evil. That tends to dehumanize them and try to separate them into something entirely different, and something distant. Much has been said about this post-WWII, and I agree. Those are people like us, just from a different psycho-social background, which could have been our own; and there is always the possibility of change, if not from leaders from followers. To me the greatest danger of claiming evil is when you stop (or try to get people to stop) thinking there; when you try to find the exact source of harm and carefully explain your reasoning, that's less bad. I didn't know what else to write instead...
bugglebeetle•6mo ago
TheOtherHobbes•6mo ago
This is dense, but stunningly prescient.
https://library.fes.de/libalt/journals/swetsfulltext/1230310...
While things are undoubtedly bad in the US, Trump's grip on everything - including personal health - is far more tenuous than Yeltsin's was. And (ironically) the US has more of a history of violent resistance and agitation for both worker rights and civil rights.
The US has always been a soft economic dictatorship. But a lot of people still expect a functioning social contract, and they're going to become increasingly angry as that disappears.
It's a much more complicated picture than the one in Russia, which has essentially been the same kind of violent autocratic monarchy for centuries, even as the set dressing around it changed.
chairmansteve•6mo ago
lyu07282•6mo ago
I would argue that was happening way before Trump, it's precisely why he was elected. He didn't just scapegoat but also pretended to take their economic grievances seriously and was the only permitted political outlet to people's grievances.
I think what happens is just the natural course of neoliberalism in the west, not any conscious long term strategy. That's why you can see the far-right gaining ground in every western country.
heavyset_go•6mo ago
The reason we're seeing it happen now is the peak user saturation of social media and because the machine has proven its formula works and can be translated across languages and cultures.
I think a different ruling cohort would have tightened the screws of neoliberalism, but might have felt the need to keep up the facade of the legitimacy of the system they run and their own leadership, throwing us a bone every once in a while.
watwut•6mo ago
Security state apparatus in Russia filled different role. These guys are true Putin equivalents.
adgjlsfhk1•6mo ago
tomrod•6mo ago
mattkevan•6mo ago
reliabilityguy•6mo ago
This is very naive and a typical US-exceptionist take. EU is going through the same thing: the bill for neoliberal policies and globalization came due.
tomrod•6mo ago
bugglebeetle•6mo ago
reliabilityguy•6mo ago
idiotsecant•6mo ago
ck2•6mo ago
It's about destroying science, not just current science but the future of science.
By destroying all existing structure so that it will cost trillions to rebuild so impossible anytime soon.
Including academia that seeds the science.
They aren't "conservatives" they are "regressives".
vjvjvjvjghv•6mo ago
That's how I feel too. "Conservative" should mean "cautious and slow", not "destroy as quickly as possible"
pstuart•6mo ago
Many (including myself) believe that Government should be for "the common good", via a legal system, government investments in shared needs/resources, etc.
The current admin believes that Government exists for only two reasons: personal enrichment and punishing perceived enemies. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see that happening.
bpodgursky•6mo ago
1. Wants to cut the budget so we don't go broke
2. Punishes anyone who talks about unsustainable retirement, disability, and healthcare entitlement programs.
So, they get politicians who try to find a third way, even if it doesn't make a budgetary difference. To get out of this, the public (especially the boomer retiree population) needs to be more mature about the fiscal situation they put the country in and realize they are not living within their means.
watwut•6mo ago
- Make debt larger and risk make usa go broke.
- Cut retirement disability, and healthcare entitlement programs.
It will however cut taxes for bilionaires and republicans love it.
root_axis•6mo ago
I think we need to stop pretending like anyone cares about reducing government spending, it's a total waste of time and allows the discussion to be misdirected away from the specifics of what the money is actually being spent on.