Army is not only generals and meat waves.
Because they used critical thinking.
>Army is not only generals and meat waves.
Non-meatgrinder related activities don't need to rely on forced conscripts to function since people run away from jobs that are a death sentence, not from those sitting behind the desk in a bunker.
The opposition tried (without luck) to get an answer in 2008-2014, latest after the Snowden revelations.
Certain rules in our constitution kicks in if we’re at war.
Sure you do. It’s a job like everything else.
> Because they used critical thinking.
Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking.
Source? What's the on the job performance of those being forced to do something non-meatgrinder related? You're probably not gonna get someone to be an efficient fighter pilot by beating them up, throwing them in a van with a gun to their head. But you can give them a rifle and order them to march since it doesn't take much skill or willingness to fight in order to be an effective bullet sponge.
Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
>Jumping to conclusions isn’t critical thinking.
Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions.
> Correct, which is why I used critical thinking instead of jumping to conclusions.
There’s almost a million of active personnel in Ukrainian army at the moment, a million. That’s the population of Cologne or Amsterdam. Modern armies, like Ukrainian one, have dozens of branches, and meatgrinder is “only” one of them.
And I still don’t understand what’s your original point anyway?
Error 404: critical thinking not found in your comment.
Have you seen the requirements, physical and mental tests fighter pilots need to pass? What makes you think people who've been beaten into submission by the military recruiters during forced conscription would then be mentally and physically fit to be entrusted with a super expensive and dangerous weapon in the sky?
Ukrainian men have been caught fighting or even boobytrapping the vans of the military recruiters in order to avoid conscription or as revenge against their brutal tactics. Would you then give those guys a 50 Million USD jet armed with bombs and missiles after you beat them into submission to join the military? That's like beating your wife and then giving her the keys to your expensive Mercedes. What do you think is gonna happen then with your Mercedes/jet?
I did signals intelligence in the USMC a decade or two ago.
To paraphrase a discussion I heard: "you do this job or we ship your ass back to the infantry tomorrow and strip your clearance. don't fuck up."
that's how. the option is to learn to do X and Y, or learn to dodge drones.
Yes, you can. Physical force is rarely necessary, though. It's enough to threaten their family, and show an example, first, like how some specific nerve agent spreads in Uncle Theo's body or what not only the Nazis used to do when they annihilated sex hormone production via Estrogen overload or anti-androgen agents. Want this done to your kids? Bam, jet in the air. I guess it's physical force by proxy.
> We've used our available connections to try to keep them safe. There's no way to get them out of the conscription. However, they're an incredibly talented security researcher and engineer and it would be extraordinarily misguided to send them to front line combat. This seems to be understood now.
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS
> GrapheneOS has only ever posted about Braxman in response to his misinformation about us. In his latest video attacking us, he engages in clear libel towards our team.
> GrapheneOS is currently under a state sponsored attack attempting to misrepresent it as being for criminals
> Due to F-Droid deliberately causing friction and annoyances for GrapheneOS users
> There's currently an example of one of these attacks on the project ongoing across Swedish forums and social media.
The fact that you're bringing up the Rossmann video after saying that is very telling. There's a huge difference between technical discussion and what was very clearly an attack by Rossmann. He clearly knew what he was doing. The video was made shortly after GrapheneOS's founder was swatted. He was understandably upset about that and with Rossmann and Rossmann recorded a private conversation and used that to attack not only GrapheneOS, but also its founder in an attempt to harm GrapheneOS's reputation. Louis didn't actually stop using GrapheneOS, so that part was a lie. It's clear that he was still using GrapheneOS in his later videos.
It's pretty low to bring that video up here. If you have a real technical issue with GrapheneOS, then you could bring that up instead.
The response to Braxman was after he posted a video calling GrapheneOS's founder crazy and made up a whole bunch of lies about the state of GrapheneOS, then plugged his own product. Clearly trying to damage GrapheneOS while helping himself at the same time. https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114824444524603470
The thread about a state sponsored attack came after a sudden flurry of news articles about GrapheneOS being used by criminals and claims that devices running GrapheneOS have been exploited with 0 evidence https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114784469162979608
F-Droid's approach is incorrect. GrapheneOS adds the sensors permission the same way that upstream AOSP adds and splits permissions, so F-Droid blaming GrapheneOS for an issue with their app is incorrect. People should read https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114790171247296048 for more info.
> We're in communication with him and he has been diverted away from combat.
You can argue that a specific individual has specific skills and experience that make them more valuable to the country in a non-fighting role. But software developer is just another common job.
But the commenter seems to be making a moral, not utilitary, argument.
This isn't so much about being worthy of protection as it is about the army dealing the most damage it can. Exploiting software vulnerabilities to disable production (like the Ukranians did for that drone production company) can save as many lives as sending someone to the front can. Breaking into networks to gather OPSEC is crucial for any military operation, offensive or defensive.
odds are the dev is in some sort of signals intelligence unit or doing dev on some sort of drone control system, etc.
ditto for if/when they draft doctors, dentists, welders, etc. -- put people with skills and experience in those fields into areas where they can be used.
doesn't mean the graphine dev ain't working 20 hour days and ain't getting targeted by drones -- just they're not line grunts.
There are a lot of highly qualified people in the combat corps.
> ditto for if/when they draft doctors, dentists, welders, etc. -- put people with skills and experience in those fields into areas where they can be used.
Many of which will be very close to the FEBA.
But the Graphene OS commenter seems to be making a moral, not utilitarian, argument, which is both odd and somewhat reprehensible.
Thousands of people rely on GrapheneOS, many of whose lives would be in danger from repressive regimes or criminals if GrapheneOS makes a security blunder or even stops being maintained. Working on GrapheneOS probably saves far more lives than being just another frontline soldier.
It is blatantly immoral to say that a person's life should be valued more because of they are a software developer or because of the software they produce, or that it should be protected more than the lives of other people.
> Working on GrapheneOS probably saves far more lives than being just another frontline soldier.
And it doesn't make a life one iota more valuable than anyone else's.
I checked the guy GOS mentioned: Robert Braxman. One single photo gives you all the vibes from the guy.
It is the same as "Stop Killing Games" movement with Pirate Software totally against it while spreading misinformation. Bad for him tho, the internet uncovered all the lies and bs, that guy's life is finished lmao
For GOS, they need some serious security analysts to review Robert's doing and exposed everything, just like "Stop Killing Games" heroes did.
Not that we don't trust GOS but the position they are in, make it easy to be judged as "bias" by the media, only them Robert and cia will stop this bs.
Just this headline should really scare us.
Grapheneos is a fantastic project and we should all support them but recent headlines here on HN make me believe we are just delaying a little what is unavoidable. Meaning, soon you will need:
1/ A common spyware smartphone turned off with your digital ID and banking app or whatever.
2/ Another device you can reasonably trust and use with confidence, hopefully with Internet connectivity.
I do not know what that second device will be:
- probably a PinePhone
- or a ClockworkPi uConsole with cellular modem
- maybe one of those LilyGo T-Deck with cellular modem
The open source community have greatly contributed to the success of Android but today I would rather have the smart people of GrapheneOS working on the real escape plan rather than trying to keep us just a little bit longer in the Google trap.
I understand they are working on their own hardware which is a bold step toward this direction.
The lead developer was conscripted, but the rest of the development team prepared for Android 16 and the port was completed in a couple of days.
Device-specific repositories were not included by Google this time, so while the port was finished quickly, they had to work around this. And now GrapheneOS has finished the Android 16 port.
So I'm not sure why people need to freak out and start using insecure devices because they _think_ something will happen with no proof. The fact is GrapheneOS is still going strong. And you can see they've been talking about talks with a big OEM on their socials, so even if new Pixels can't be supported in the future, other OEMs are interested.
As of today I already need an 2 Android phones
1/ One Google Android phone for my banking app with Google Integrity API working
2/ One GrapheneOS phone for everything else
I could switch bank for the 3rd time, sure. But how long can I run away?
So what I meant is hopefully in the future we will have a GrapheneOS hardware device, but they might also need to fork or leave AOSP. Because trying to be in the Google Android ecosystem and out of it at the same time became impossible or too costly.
We can't spent most of our resources trying fit in instead of creating our own path.
The Play Integrity API is working. Banking apps rejecting GrapheneOS' hashes has nothing to do with Google Android vs AOSP and everything to do with what the banks decide is an acceptable risk.
GrapheneOS implements everything the Play Integrity API needs and is completely honest about doing so. That's unlike many custom ROMs that lie to Google and spoof a device that doesn't support hardware attestation, which makes many banking apps work.
theamk•12h ago
"We avoided specifying the country or war to avoid involving GrapheneOS in a debate on forced conscription in an existential defensive war."
I will follow their wishes and not specify the specific war or side, but this comment gives me all the information to figure it out.
bawolff•10h ago
defrost•10h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Russia
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/4/11/myanmars-military-d...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Sudan
longfingers•9h ago
wiseowise•8h ago
bawolff•7h ago
That's basically war propaganda 101 - the war is defensive and existential.
wiseowise•7h ago
dontleakkeys•7h ago
I assume that there's truth to what they're saying and that they probably were swatted, and that's awful. But it doesn't feel right to me. Being betrayed seems to be a consistent part of the narrative GrapheneOS presents about itself. It's even in the history section on their website.
bawolff•4h ago
bawolff•8h ago
I was initially assuming Israel was relying on reserves for the current war, which seems to be true, but it also sounds like being in the reserves is mandatory so i guess that is conscription with extra steps.
Anyways, i guess your broad point is right.
throwaway290•6h ago
Some draftees are made sign the contract not just with large sums of money but also force/torture. I am told it happens almost dsily and knowing a bit what russian army is like I think it is likely. Probably more likely if you are non-slavic guy from the regions and not a big city
This story is about a guy who was arrested for theft or something and was "offered" contract. Apparently cops get 100000 rub reward for one guy who they "convince". https://meduza.io/feature/2025/07/13/dozhd-18-letnego-dagest...
pyuser583•9h ago
tonyhart7•10h ago
is that controversial??
adastra22•9h ago
wiseowise•8h ago
Even though the guy is obviously on the right side of history, it might be problematic for project like Graphene to acknowledge it.
spankibalt•8h ago
The same swings the other way around, i. e. Graphene protecting its devs against any outside threats. Etc.
Hizonner•3h ago
DiogenesKynikos•8h ago
yreg•8h ago
senectus1•7h ago
DiogenesKynikos•7h ago
diggan•6h ago
bawolff•8h ago
colordrops•8h ago
ThePowerOfFuet•7h ago
dontleakkeys•7h ago
colordrops•6h ago
dontleakkeys•6h ago
bugtodiffer•7h ago
dontleakkeys•6h ago
Pretty, pretty please, let's not debate whether or not this is the case and just acknowledge we can't rule Israel out.
bawolff•4h ago
I think the best argument against it being Israel, is that it appears to have happened suddenly and unexpectedly. News reporting makes it sound like the Israeli system is very predictable - people get conscripted at a specific age (even in peace time), and then afterwards serve in reserves, that might get called up. Ukraine on the other hand has a significant manpower problem and has been somewhat desperately trying to increase the conscription pool. Someone being unexpectedly caught up in conscription seems more likely in Ukraine's situation where the rules are being actively changed to get more recruits.
throwaway290•6h ago
And "diverting somebody away from combat" for this kinda reason sounds not like russian army.
And they saying it is "defensive existential war" is another thing, if this turns out to be Russia GrapheneOS would be on my personal blacklist forever
k4rli•5h ago