The Raspberry Pi 5 is lacking in some fairly basic support that the Pi 4 has. There's no TianoCore, no NetBSD, no FreeBSD, no OpenBSD, no OmniOS(CE) … in fact nothing at all apart from Raspberry Pi OS. A couple of of the operating systems seem to point the finger at poorly documented hardware changes that the manufacturer has been no help with.
* https://github.com/tianocore/edk2-platforms/tree/master/Plat...
* https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/evbarm/raspberry_pi/#index6h2
* https://www.freebsd.org/where/#download
* https://www.openbsd.org/arm64.html
* https://downloads.omnios.org/media/braich/
So the question that comes to my mind is whether this is yet further new and different Raspberry Pi 5 hardware that comes with no software or prospect of software.
No mini PC can beat most things about the Pi, apart from performance and compatibility, the latter of which is fully the fault of the manufacturer.
Rpi is strictly suited to very specific use cases.
My new favourite tool for these situations is the Radxa X4, which is the exact dimensions of a RPi, but with an Intel x86 CPU and an onboard microcontroller to drive GPIOs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OrangePI/comments/1buzts4/uboot_v20...
It's an archlinux PKGBUILD that applies a couple patches for the device drivers and HDMI. This can probably be repurposed to build on any linux distro. Obviously flash your firmware with caution, but it's been booting from SPI to NVME without any issue for a while now.
If there is more interest in this, I can fully flesh this out.
The board boots Armbian fine with nothing connected to the serial port.
[1] https://github.com/Joshua-Riek/ubuntu-rockchip/issues/1073
The Raspberry Pi 5 and Orange Pi 5 are just too expensive. I do have some of the Pi 5s from both these companies, but have replaced them with Intel N100 mini-PCs instead. But I'll still use RPi 4's for my 3d printers and other lower-end uses.
And RPi's software support is just better: I've got an Orange Pi 4. Orange Pi hasn't updated their OS for it in years. Last time I tried to get it working in Armbian, HDMI output was (is?) broken: https://forum.armbian.com/topic/26818-opi-4-lts-no-hdmi-outp...
For me personally, much of the value of the RPI products is knowing they will have long term support.
RockChip really only appears to care about embedded auto apps etc...thus their support horizon is more about sustainment and not enhancement, and they do little to support the community.
I can get this for the RK3588 though there are problems with my Orange Pi board that uses it.
How do you figure? E.g. OpenWRT, Ubuntu, Alpine Linux, Kali, and Zephyr all offer official image support. Others have unofficial support, e.g. I think FreeBSD actually falls in this boat.
A 10 year old celeron n2930 based mini pc i purchased for 30$ at a scrapper performs way better than the pi4. Ran esxi and bunch of vms on top of it aswell. Sips 10 w of power.
If only we could have somehow predicted this. I mean who could have predicted that a company that has never released hardware documentation and screwed over individual users in preference to corporate users during shortages would get in the way of porting other OSes. <shocked Pikachu face>
I mean, it's not like people have been bitching about this for more than a goddamn decade.
If only we could have forseen this <rolls eyes>.
An RPI5 4GB is exactly the same price and form factor as the Beagle Y-AI. You can help the folks trying to do this right or not. The choice is yours.
It seems the ARM SystemReady stuff is only for big iron.
In theory, it's a wonderful idea, because it means you can run the same distro on your RPis as on the rest of your fleet (architecture differences notwithstanding), and therefore have consistent patching requirements, etc. In practice, as frustrating as it is that the RPi kernel patches haven't been upstreamed, they exist for a reason and I think by not having them, you're shooting yourself in the foot (even if you only hit a toe or two). Two things I observed recently when directly comparing stock Debian aarch64 with Raspberry Pi OS on an RPi4 was a 40%+ reduction in SD card read performance, and nonfunctional power control of the USB ports.
Fwiw I still have a “poor man's NAS” RPi4 running Debian, and it works great. (The SD card throughput deficiencies don't affect me there because the system boots from a USB-attached SSD.) If you're able to take the time to make a situation-specific assessment of what works (and what works “well enough”) vs. what doesn't, then in the long term, you can reap the benefits of not having to remember how to handle a single oddball OS in your fleet (especially given RPi OS' particularly consumer-oriented whims).
An interesting further little feature of TianoCore particularly for Pi 4 users is that it maintains a fake hardware clock. It only ticks forward when the firmware is in boot services mode; it is persisted to the firmware's own image file in the EFI System Partition; and it isn't as effective as even a simple fake-hwclock utility. But it does satisfy the operating systems that assume that there must be a hardware clock, because every computer is PC98-compatible.
> So the question that comes to my mind is whether this is yet further new and different Raspberry Pi 5 hardware that comes with no software or prospect of software.
If by “this” you mean the MicroSD Express hat from the article: this is a hobby project produced by a hobbyist, who seems to have no plans to sell or mass produce it.
It is unfair to the creator for you to lump it in with, and draw a conclusion from, the works produced by Raspberry Pi Holdings.
If you’re going to use pcie lanes anyway then stick a m.2 at the end of it to benefit from mass scale of nvme drive production.
I also have a general distrust of sd cards and their write levelling. Maybe just rotten luck or fake ones but they never seem to last
The microcontroller on the hat is there to issue some SD-interface commands to light up the PCIe interface, and that's a combination sure to expose some interesting behaviors.
> Sadly, having a microSD Express card slot on the Raspberry Pi 5 does not make a lot of sense at this point due to the cost of MicroSD Express card. An M.2 NVMe SSD is cheaper... For those reasons, [we] will not manufacture the HAT, but the design is released under a permissive MIT license, so anybody could manufacture it if needed. Maybe a microSD Express slot will make sense in a future Raspberry Pi 6, as prices come down.
The introduction of the m.2 HAT for the Raspberry Pi 5 has been a game changer, not just in terms of speed, but also in significantly improving disk/filesystem reliability.
I guess all I'm saying is, for the love of God, if you've got a choice and need to store data on a Pi5, please use the m.2 HAT + SSD from Raspberry Pi. Unlike other fruit companies, the prices for the SSDs are quite reasonable.
I’ve had Samsung SlimFit USB drives with BTRFS last for years on rpi3s and rpi4s.
Pi's were great when they were cheap, but now the Raspberry Pi has IPO'd those days are over.
Feelings over facts, at least you acknowledge it.
The success of (and the issues with) the raspberry pi mainly derive from it being mistaken for a good home-server platform. It's not, it's awful for that use case. For pretending it to be an embedded systems platform (either for prototyping or to later target the compute modules for production usage) sure, it's great.
It's all fine as long as the (computing) needs are low and budget is not an issue.
The problem, imho, is that it's amazing right up to a point where it isn't. It's tiny, noiseless, sips power....while providing what you need it to. Until one day the service you set up is not available anymore, the Pi isn't responding on the network, and then you check and the microSD is corrupt and everything you've set up is gone. Hope you had a good backup because the only way to fix it is to set it up again from scratch.
You can get that from any homelab setup though. Personally, I long since went the route of regularly setting up my Pis from scratch using Ansible - that way I at least know that I didn't forget to commit any manual changes made.
Pi-specific, my recommendation is to have a serious power supply. For the old Pis with Micro USB, Meanwell makes good ones, link that with a good wire gauge (18 AWG or more) and off you go. New Pis with USB-C, Anker power supply and a decent USB-C cable... that solves a lot of microSD corruption issues because the power regulation to the card isn't that good and just passes through brownouts/undervoltage conditions.
And the second recommendation, use "industrial" microSD cards, preferably those that are SLC. Grab them from Mouser, yes they are a bit more expensive than "normal" microSD cards but will live so much longer.
[1] https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/SanDisk/SDSDQED-008G-XI
Unlike Intel servers, where corruption of the boot media is of course of no consequences.
I'd be inclined to slightly agree with you on Raspberry Pi 4 and older, but the 5 is a whole lot different beast with a leap forward in performance.
Now it costs a lot of helluva money. And in the end it's useless 90% of the time.
It entirely depends on the purpose you use them for. Mini-PCs are good for PC-things, meaning raw power, storage, just running software. But they fall flat if you tinker with them. They usually don't have GPIO, nore a community build around hacking and tinkering with them (AFAIK).
But here is the thing, many people were using raspis for those software-jobs, as NAS, homeserver, mediacenter, gamestation, they have no need for tinkering and GPIO. So this group of people is totally fine with a mini-pc, and maybe even should stay with them, and giving the raspi room to focus on its original purpose again.
Hardware has also evolved over the years. I had been using a pi to run pihole, but an incident one day that caused my SD card to burn up made me go looking around at other options.
There is now a whole stockpile of used “thin clients” which can be had with case, power supply and more RAM for less than the cost of a pi, with other niceties like an extra SODIMM slot and M.2 with a few more lanes than a pi.
These are also fanless systems that idle at a few watts and generally serve that purpose better in nearly every way. That said, the sticker price on one of those systems is not competitive and only the somewhat recent turning over of supply from call centers and other places with low computational needs has really entered them into the market (and also driven the continued development of the atom chips used in mini pcs).
Which board-and-camera combination would you choose?
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