About LLMs: Maybe there won't be much training going around as model we might starting to hit diminishing returns with the current model architectures/approaches, but I believe inference is here to stay. Scaffolding code, trivial functions, ... are things that LLMs excel at doing and once you get used to offload those to the LLM it is really hard to get back to doing it manually.
About Image/Video generations: Here I believe there is even more to explore and I consider this separate from LLMs in the context of AI winters/bubbles. Especially regarding the video generation part.
I am not in the field, but I believe the appeal of being able to create movies without needing xM$ for actors' salaries is huge. And if you can even replace the VFX also with Video Generation then it is a 3 birds with one stone scenario (You pay for AI compute and you replace actors, VFX specialists, and compute costs for render farms).
So, I believe that there is not a scenario in which electricity prices plummet as you describe. Maybe locally around datacenters that were primarily built for LLMs training, but not globally.
True, but local models cover that use-case very well already and consume little power doing so.
Probably will reap the rewards in about 10 years time once the UK is producing huge amounts of wind and Europe solar, but that's not nuch of a consolation for the minute.
Tariffs will make it even worse, with prices the utilities have to pay for infrastructure shooting higher.
I've heard the limiting factor right now for some DCs is the lack of electrical equipment(transformers, cabling, etc).
«Stargate Norway is planned to deliver 230MW of capacity, with ambitions to expand by an additional 290MW. The facility will target to deliver 100,000 NVIDIA GPUs by the end of 2026, with the intention to expand significantly in the years ahead.»
Makes it sound both like a power plant and a semiconductor factory..
They have since corrected it tho: https://www.nrk.no/nordland/aker-har-signert-milliardavtale-...
Yes, this is basically the case. It's quite expensive to transfer power across several degrees of latitude, and as a result, the price of power in the south of Norway is sometimes orders of magnitude higher than in the north.
Doomsday cult.
2 €/MWh today
So? They're not paying for it, are they?
From what I can tell in the link I posted (and this could be wrong, so corrections welcome):
1. The project needs ~$100b (although a fraction of that will be sufficient to get the first deployment online)
2. OpenAI and Softbank have each committed ~$18b
3. OpenAI is trying to raise ~$40b to stay in business
4. The majority of that ~$40b is coming from Softbank
5. Softbank has ~$30b cash on hand and is syndicating at least ~$10b in investment for the OpenAI raise.
6. OpenAI has projected a burn rate of ~$40b/year by 2028.
To me it looks like Software is committing $30b to OpenAI + $18b to Stargate. OpenAI, if the raise is successful, will receive $40b over a period of time of which $22b will be available to OpenAI if they make good on their commitment of $18b for Stargate.
Which means that OpenAI needs, in the next few years, $40b/year to run, but will only have $22b after they meet the Stargate commitment in the coming year, leaving them short of operational cash and requiring a further round of investments.
And also that the vast majority of things Sam says are a lie?
rather small compared to what was advertised previously
>joint venture between Nscale and Aker
which seems to imply it is not The Stargate (Oracle, Softbank, MGX?)
Aka, Snowden thought us nothing.
Norwegians beware of ChatGPT used as a weapon to move oil money from the people to the ”future of business ”.
What's the European alternative to Nvidia H100s and Quantum InfiniBand, AMD Epycs and Instincs, and Intel Xeons?
In the past you had European companies like ST, Ericsson, Nokia and Siemens who could design cutting edge compute and networking chips of the time, but those days are long gone, with European companies have missed out on the hyperscale race being relucted to making commodity low margin products, so they either have to buy American or Chinese if they want cutting edge.
It was my mistake.
You have a weird definition of pulling away.
New production commitments, military commitments, pulling away from US big tech.
No matter what happens, the damage has been done. It's picking up momentum seemingly every day.
And they seem more than happy to take our scientific researchers.
Stock price says otherwise. Probably because replacing MS Office with Libre Office doesn't really mean much while still running your digital infrastructure on US services, US chips and US phones. Lemme know when EU creates its own You Tube.
>And they seem more than happy to take our scientific researchers.
Who's taking who's researchers? Got any examples. From what I saw Linus Torvalds is still in US.
March 15, 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dailymotion
> Who's taking who's researchers? Got any examples. From what I saw Linus Torvalds is still in US.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y
I wouldn't call Linus a "scientific researcher". He's an engineer, and that's also a group that economies need, but he's not a scientist, and not a researcher.
Unfortunately for the "engineering" part: https://archive.ph/xChye
I can only read the title due to paywall, but that doesn't answer the question that I made to your comment that someone is stealing someone else's researchers. I asked for hard examples of researchers being stolen that back up your point.
>He's an engineer, and that's also a group that economies need
And why is he and the rest like him in the US and not in Europe?
"Scientists who have felt abandoned in the U.S. are being courted by institutions across the world. Aix-Marseille University (AMU), located in France, "introduced eight U.S.-based researchers who were in the final stage of joining the institution's 'Safe Place for Science' program, which aims to woo researchers who have experienced or fear funding cuts under the Trump administration," said Politico. The program has received close to 300 applications from some of the top institutions in the U.S."
Source: https://theweek.com/science/scientists-refugees-research-tru...
"There are also new scientific refugees in the making. Trump's "big, beautiful bill" calls for a 56% cut to the National Science Foundation budget and a 73% reduction in staff and fellowships. It also cuts resources from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Agriculture and U.S. Geological Service. There is a "whole generation of young scientists who see no pathway into the field for them,""
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/1ked2hy/which_cou...
"Stolen" is a far cry from "taken". Researchers are not property, they have free will. And in this case, it's "taken" in the sense of "taken on" or "taken in", because the USA is actively cutting science and research budgets.
So, you want what, a dozen names of people you've likely never heard of because most researchers are not celebrities?
Or you could ask Shelly Sakiyama-Elbert, the vice dean of research and graduate education at UW Medicine, who said "We’re going to have a big brain drain in the U.S. of these really talented folks, … It’s not just a switch that you flip, right? If people move out into another direction with their careers, they often don’t come back." - https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/one-countrys-lead...
There's some pseudonymous examples here, too: https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2025-03-27/us-scient...
> And why is he and the rest like him in the US and not in Europe?
Why did he go to the USA in the first place? Because of the different world in 1997 when he graduated.
Why is he still there? Everyone's different, but I can say that the older you get, more ties you have. After Brexit, I was free to move to Germany, but my brother, a decade older and with a family, couldn't even though he was interested.
First thing I noticed when I arrived: they are using Google for emails, sharing documents, drives, meetings, research projects, etc. The loss of sovereignty that this represents AND the major risk for leaks/theft is MAD.
It was a research lab entirely focused on tech/CS/computational science So it's not like they don't know stuff about technology.
Years prior to this, I'm in Finland in a tiny lab in Turku/Åbo (the city has two names, one in Finnish the other in Swedish.
I remember there was a dude doing his master's trying to integrate a bunch of devices (phone, desktop, laptop, cloud, etc.) so that basically your AI assistant can automatically handle stuff. This implied A LOT of constant (or almost constant) data collection.
During one of the meeting, I think I'm the one who asked: "But wait, isn't this a massive issue in terms of privacy?" The big boss of the lab, replied: "Oh I know you're from France, and you guyz care a lot about this. But here we simply do not"
Conclusion:
I haven't looked at sociological studies trying to build an historical overview of the Nordic people and their relation to electronic privacy. But my experience goes so much against the idea I had about Nordic "culture" (this word means nothing here: Finnish and Norwegian are VERY different societies, but bear with me).
I really believed that in those countries I'd find some high priority, super secured, home made, safe solutions for handling messaging, data, research -> it is REALLY NOT THE CASE, I haven't seen ANY OF THAT; they're all using USA made cloud-(AI)-tech.
However, in the world of AI, latency is already 1 second plus, so the economics change - you do better to build where there is cheap electricity and free cooling.
I forsee Iceland as a good place to invest.
So wherever you build, you'll most likely be building the same wattage of power station as you do datacenter.
Lots of other resources can be shared too - for example shared cooling systems
Remember Russia has huge quantities of free gas which used to be sold to the EU but is right now wasted.
It isn't "WASTED", what re you on about.
News article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62652133
That maybe the attempt of capital to finally replace pesky labor with cheap machines isn't worth risking it all?
No? Guess it's time to scream into the void some more.
Who's gonna purchase the goods if noone gets a salary? That will work out like the french revolution.
Capital was never known for its foresight. The planning horizon is quarterly results
(Didn't they at some point also say they wanted to build their own semiconductor fabs? That went in the same direction).
This is massive. As a point of comparison: Denmark just unveiled a new supercomputer recently which has only ~1,500 GPUs [1]
[1] https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/denmarks-first-ai-super...
According to Wikipedia, in 2021 Norway produced 157.1TWh of electricity, that's 13.1TWh per month. The GPUs will consume less than 1% of the total electricity production capacity Norway has (or had in 2021).
Norway currently uses fully or close to 100% renewables, according to electricitymap. Hopefully this investment won't turn that around.
Though I am starting to recognize in myself that I think AI is so cool, that I might be a bit naive. But I just love it so much, use it so much, and have a childish pleasure in it, that I'm starting to think that I need to curb my enthusiasm.
I do note that the other side of the spectrum has no problem with representation, though. With just as unnuanced attitudes like: AI is evil, useless, capitalistic exploitation, and so on. So the pessistic view is more than enough represented in the public discourse. So maybe I can just let myself be in love with this tech.
I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if you’re going to play those kinds of games and still lose, that’s not the kind of partner I’d trust.
atleastoptimal•20h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon_(TV_series)
chrisfosterelli•19h ago
TeMPOraL•19h ago
ᐰ
ge96•19h ago
Incipient•18h ago
0points•18h ago
290tra•1h ago
Cthulhu_•18h ago
It is a tense moment.
The serpent guard's eyes glow.
The Horus guard's beak glistens.
The Setesh guard's nose drips.
TeMPOraL•17h ago
ge96•19h ago
agnishom•19h ago
derektank•18h ago
Cthulhu_•18h ago
And also, it's no longer science fiction; there's people having relationships with chatbots which can easily be made to do voice transcription / synthesis, and r/characterai melts down whenever they have an outage.
littlestymaar•18h ago