There are some spaces where productivity does matter. My uncle runs a painting company. It’s all about productivity, costs, and customer acquisition. HeAl’s not waiting on new markets or innovation to fundamentally change how he makes money (although tech has improved productivity). He’s made it for the same way for the past 30 years.
Stock market is a gambling game that has little to do with actual productivity, it's about convincing other fools to pay more for the stock than you did so that you can make a profit and leave them holding the bag.
The article author argues that companies enforce policies that are manifestly unproductive. Do you have a counterargument, or evidence that they do care?
SWE salaries are a massive cost. Improving productivity is one way of offsetting that cost. The examples provided for "don't care about productivity" are things like open office plans- where a certain amount of productivity is sacrificed while offsetting a different cost (building space).
Yes, it is fair to say that managers and executives do not care about productivity to the exclusion of all else. It's something of a pointless statement, though, as I don't think anyone actually thinks that.
No, I don't believe it does. The argument is actually that they "care about control over labour and stock prices" above all else, including productivity.
> The examples provided for "don't care about productivity" are things like open office plans- where a certain amount of productivity is sacrificed while offsetting a different cost (building space).
From the article: "Home offices also lower office real estate costs, so you’d think executives would love it, but they also makes employee surveillance harder."
There are other types who prefer the power trip, or that if you're a bad manager then your job is pretty easy, etc. But GOOD execs actually do care quite a lot. I tend to tangle with HR over salaries because I'd rather hire a handful of really good people for 15% above market and get double the productivity than a lot of people at or below market.
This article is confusing the corporate raider mindset rampant in big public companies with the genuine growth mindset most companies actually have. Everyone focuses on productivity and costs, enshittification only happens when you're near enough of a monopoly you can afford to squeeze your customers. Most companies can't do that and most companies try to just keep improving. Don't look at MS or Exxon and think that's who most companies actually work. That's just the beginning of the end stage of a megacorporation's life.
Now ask yourself this: how often do people do this at all? Pretty much never. Most of us only do it when you have to, because you aren’t making enough money, because your application is slow, because you can barely meet budget, or because you are trying to land on the moon and failing costs too much.
Accurate analysis depends on accurate data. Which is why some people I know are required to account for their work activities in 7-minute increments, have frequent and detailed meetings to account for progress, project planning, etc.
Actually, doing that analysis has a cost that must be discounted from any perceived gains of efficiency, to be truly efficient. One learns to tolerate some waste to avoid the ultimate time-suck.
To say nothing of maintence and sustainability -- if you're always sprinting, you're doomed to fall.
maximizing efficiency also maximizes the number of single points of failure in your system. Anything that goes wrong breaks an optimized for efficiency system.
You need to have resilience and redundancy to deal with variability, but those cost money.
Much better from the management perspective to ignore those risks, cash in on the cheap profits and blame "unexpected events" and get a bailout when things go wrong. They cash in on the easy money and have no downside consequences.
Reiterating for truth, and also to expand upon the point:
These are things that cost money all the time, but only pay off visibly in a crisis. And it has to be a crisis of the right kind (if your headquarters burns down in a wildfire, it won't help you to have 225% coverage on every role). So this makes it very difficult to justify to people who think only numbers—and only specific kinds of numbers—matter.
But redundancy and resiliency, at least in most cases, also make the lives of everyone working there better. They mean, among other things, that if one person needs to get surgery, or take their child to the doctor, or just go on vacation, there's still enough people there to keep the work flowing smoothly. The people still there won't be hopelessly overloaded, the work will get done, and the one person who's out won't have a mountain of catch-up work to go when they get back.
The only drawback is that it means you're paying people to work at a rate that means they regularly have downtime and aren't "fully utilized" constantly. (By definition.)
You also spend a lot more time on communication. If you have one person who is the resource for X, they can spend their time doing X and don't have to spend time on coordination. When the procedures for doing X change, only one person needs to figure it out, etc.
That doesn't mean having a single person is the right decision, the benefits of having multiple people are important; just want to be clear about the drawbacks of multiple people doing the work.
I do it most of the time at work because I find joy in finding the best possible solution.
You may argue that "analyzing your tasks holistically" will make you more efficient at achieving your goals. But min-maxing is for tactics, and is antithetical to strategy. Very often, taking a nap or a bath or walk will yield an insight that changes the entire game, obviating weeks or months of efficient and diligent work. We've all experienced this, so why do we insist on "maximizing efficiency"?
If it’s so obvious, figure out how to bet against it, get rich, and never have to worry about productivity again.
> The environmental impact is real.
If every LLM disappeared tomorrow, the environment is still equally fucked as it is today. “Think of the environment” is the second most mindless appeal to emotion argument against anything other than “Think of the children.”
Most people don't have access to enough money to begin profitable trading. Most people don't have a realistic option to even try trading.
I think that the person who wrote this blog post is supremely deluded about their ability to identify a bubble.
That said, abusive corporate environments (and they’re pretty much all abusive) turn people into automatons. Execs can thus wave LLMs around and say, “Look, you’re so useless a machine can do your job.”
And even then it does a shitty job. It misses special cases and causes messes. But it’s cheap in the short term, which is all that matters to the boss’s career. Things will go to shit in a few years, but if you’re good at executive social climbing, you are three promotions away from your bad decisions by the time anyone figures out that’s what they were.
Let me guess: the engineering was easier and more pleasant, and what mattered was sales?
Or do you mean being more productive doesn’t automatically translate to it being visible.. yeah that is a tricky one..
Their goal is to attach their name to as many features/initatives as possible, owning the successes and orphaning failures, to impress their bosses. Another related goal is to have as many reports as possible. Delivery is relative to the average velocity: often, it's preferable to have a slow, inefficient operation so you can sandbag your bosses AND increase your headcount.
When it comes to improving processes and tools, managers prefer low-risk, iterative improvements which they can (somewhat) grasp. They also enjoy one-off prototypes and half-baked hacker projects which use new and shiny technology. Both categories make great fodder for PowerPoint presentations in front of shirts.
When it comes to larger, fundamental shifts which they cannot grok nor plausibly attach their name to, many managers will actively impede such efforts, as this risks upsetting the status quo which is (probably) working for them. The exceptions are usually the smart middle-managers looking to create a rising tide.
I've worked at a company that had dozens upon dozens of teams working on precisely the same problems (standard build->deploy->test->release fare), using many of the same tools, each with their own half-baked and poorly maintained configuration, plugins, dependencies, and custom libraries (sometimes, they even wrote a few tests!).
You can probably guess the majority of the proposal I put together, it's foundational stuff. It was presented and discussed among our senior+ engineers, and with managers.
>"You know... maybe there's value in letting teams be innovative..."
More precisely about benefit derived from the delivery. Best case scenario is the team is part of the benefit thinking but that is not a given. Also the layer above may engineer a situation where team and manager benefits from delivery are in conflict.
Your middle manager likely cares less about your productivity than about sucking up to those above your middle manager in the hierarchy, and your productivity is at best only tenuously related to that.
In fact your middle manager is responsible for enforcing the C-suite's directives on you. Any deviation from that, even if it increases your productivity, is likely to result in punishment rather than reward for your manager.
Is it perfect? No. Of course not. But having a team that is just willing to show up and work towards a goal is such a leg up over any other thing that we know that it is painful to see it argued against.
Will there be some people that make progress in leaps? Absolutely. Most of that progress will be taken up and incorporated rather quickly in the places that also employ the teams that just show up.
Ideally (level 3, the best), I could work with good people on something that I personally care about, like curing childhood cancer or something. This is the type of work I would do even if I wasn't paid, although I couldn't do as much without pay. The meaning is obvious.
This type of job is rare though, so I can't reliably expect to find this level of meaning in work.
But maybe (level 2), I can work with good people towards making a company profitable. Helping an honest company be profitable for the mutual benefit of all the good people I work with is meaning enough for me.
But companies often ask individual workers to do stupid things, or a company is not open to hearing ideas about how to be more successful from individual workers. So I can't reliably take personal meaning from making the company profitable, because the company isn't interested in hearing my ideas about the business, and/or is acting is self-destructive ways, and/or the companies profits are completely disconnect from anything I personally do.
But maybe (level 1), I can find meaning in making my boss happy. This is hell, this is a pathetic meaning for work, but making the boss happy is at least something.
But often my bosses are not good people (about 50%). I've seen what makes them happy and I don't want to be that.
So, (level 0) I guess the only meaning I have left is to make money. If this is really the meaning behind my work, then I see no reason to not cheat and lie at every opportunity, while being careful to avoid consequences. If earning money really is the deepest meaning I should seek in work, then lying and cheating will help me with this--let's go full psychopath mode!
On HN people often say that level 2 is the right attitude, but companies do things that are self-destructive, so I cannot maintain level 2. Level 1 and level 0 are stages of hell.
What meaning do you find in work? What level are you?
If you want to move up the stock, cost cutting is good, to some extent, but it has limits, competition can become more fierce, and the whole thing can become a race to the bottom, you cut cost, than you're forced to cut margins, and now you are no less profitable.
Growth requires new products, new markets, for people to spend additional money, to acquire more customers, etc.
A few companies are growing because their product is AI, so that's going to be new money coming in from people who want AI in itself.
But for those using AI?
1) You can sell stock after you buy it, which isn't itself a problem but introduces a confounding variable. Now stock price is a reflection partly of investors' confidence that the company will make money, and partly of investors' confidence that the stock price will go up. These two obviously feed back into one another: if a company announces things that make it seem profitable the stock price will go up, which can drive another round of investing beyond what the announcement warrants just hoping that they can ride the wave upward and get off at the peak. I personally did this with dogecoin when it went on its bull run a few years back. Despite my wholehearted belief that DOGE was basically worthless, I saw the price going up so I threw some money at it with the intention of bailing as soon as I saw any substantial growth. I tripled my money in three days and greater fool'd my way out of that position.
2) The tail starts to wag the dog. The perceived health of the company should make stock prices go up, but the stock price going up ends up influencing the perceived health of the company. What other measure do we have? The answer of course is "several, but none as easily summarized and delivered as a single number that has either increased or decreased since yesterday".
Trustworthy, transparent financials mitigate the above 2 “problems”. Trustworthy and transparent being key requirements, which can only be satisfied if with a trustworthy and transparent auditor (i.e. government).
Edit: Also, the author's quote here
>This is what Deming meant when he said “nobody gives a hoot about profits”.
does not make sense to me, considering the large gains (to the tune of trillions of dollars) are to the shareholders that own shares in businesses with enormous profits. Obviously, someone (everyone?) gives a hoot about profits. Those obviously translate directly to money in one's pocket, especially those of managers and executives getting paid in equity.
fatbird•2h ago
In that time, the stock price went up, and Honeywell went back on the Fortune 100. Just zero relationship between productivity or effectiveness within the company and the stock price.
whatshisface•2h ago
Losing billions of dollars doesn't keep you off the Fortune 100, only losing billions of dollars more than the other companies people could invest in.
lotsofpulp•27m ago
5/10/15/20 year annual Honeywell returns are 9.74/10.29/14.03/11.78%.
SP500 is 14.69/13.80/14.42/10.57%.
I would characterize Honeywell as treading water until 2011, and since then they have been losing.
https://dqydj.com/stock-return-calculator/?ticker=HON
https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/