But what about cases where the user isn't directly related to the decision maker? Doubly so when it's a hard to justify purchase? (I.e. you're not selling bread or IBM machines.)
For example, say, a keyless entry fob for a car. The driver benefits immensely. The CTO of Ford may probably not even entertain a meeting ("Huh, what does he think, locks are bad or something?! What's wrong with a secure lock?")
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to approach such a situation if you developed the fob and now want to sell it?
A great example is remote starters. Same idea. Great for the user, not so much for say Ford. The first places I saw these being installed? Stereo shops would use it as a cross selling feature whenever they were selling something else to a customer. I could be wrong, but it took a few years for the manufacturers to start including remote starters as an add-on. Before then, it was all kinds of other shops selling and installing them.
But its a trench warfare type of deal. You have to get into the hands of the people who can install them, then work your way up to approaching dealerships and larger clients.
I've done this with an anti-theft device. Start small, then build your client base and use that as a springboard to get interest from larger clients.
TFA goes:
Leadership gives approval for purchase
If your brand doesn't sell on its own, for a top-down sales motion (tfa is about bottom-up & product-led) it is usually c-suites purchasing from friends (network) & family. Folks want to go to Harvard/Wharton/GSB for a reason.Require me to give you my contact information just to download something. Have sales people blow up my phone and/or email and ignore polite brush-offs. Keep reaching out to me periodically with requests to have a meeting about how you product can help me.
I don't have buying power, but I do have bitching power and your product will wind up getting bad-mouthed by the whole team eventually. And when the engineer asks us for recommendations, guess what we tell him?
Lookin' at you, Veeam, AWS, and Keyence.
Also please don't make me sit through a demo just to get a quote. If I want a full demo I'll ask for it, and I need to know pricing first before even considering going any further. I've probably already researched your product, maybe even did a trial if available - I don't need to sit through any number of sales pitches, just give me the numbers.
In this case, corporate management holding the purse strings but their workers (devs) using the actual tools. The solution they offer to founders is to make the user your champion and have them sell your product for you.
"The meta point here is that you're not going to talk to the credit card holder; the user/dev is going to do that for you.
Give them the best possible chance at convincing the leadership. Make them look awesome for even bothering the leadership with a choice like this. Make it obviously awesome for them to decide “yes”. These users/devs are your sales people."
Maybe that works for dev tools with freemium models, but in many industries where this problem arises its just not possible to even get your product in front of the users. Take hospital systems and EHR purchasing where Doctors and Nurses are the users of the EHR day in and day out but it is the hospital administration that ultimately gets to decide which EHR is deployed. How do you get users to be champions of your product if you can't even get it in front of them?
* How do I get promoted?
* How do I get a raise?
* How do I not get fired?
Beyond those common desires are a constellation of more personalized that is specific for each salesperson and the cohort they target (I'm somewhat of an idealist in that I believe people are quite often strongly driven by meaningful non-capitalist, non-realist desires).
In any case, when you're working in enterprise sales, what you have to realize is that what your corporate champion is "buying" is a way for them to achieve their goals and only incidentally what is good for the company, where your product is merely a proxy to accomplishing this.
Of course, companies also know this and anyone who has owned a P&L immediately recognizes that the sum of all things everyone wants far exceeds the resources of the balance sheet, thus, some selection process needs to be put in place to allocate scarce resources.
Your corporate champion is ideally far more aligned with you against the company than they are with the company against you and your job is to figure out how to win this selection battle together.
The core insight though, is that people are actually astonishingly bad at performing on this and it's actually quite easy for an outside sales person to become a subject matter expert for 3 core reasons:
1. Any employee usually only ever has a sample size of 1 whereas you have a broader peek into how this has happened across a range of companies industry wide.
2. Any employee, only a minor part of their job involves interfacing with outside parts of the firm responsible for allocating resources whereas you treat this as a core competency.
3. For any person, it's always easier to advise a 3rd party on what to do than to practice the same actions yourself.
What this means though, is that, as an enterprise salesperson, you should understand that your core value comes from developing subject matter expertise in how to help people in your industry get promotions, get raises and avoid getting fired and the product you're representing at the moment is merely the avenue through which you enable that to happen.
The best salespeople I've ever met always share a common core value that they deeply care about making sure everyone around them is getting rich with the faith that some of that money eventually reflects onto them but that's not what drives them. That's why so many immigrants and children of immigrants make such great salespeople, they've seen the material difference wealth has made on their circumstances and they want to spread that opportunity to others.
This is what I advise Founders who start Enterprise focused businesses. Fundamentally, you should be thinking about how do I get someone to VP/Director/Line Manager/Tech Lead 2/3/5 years earlier than if my product doesn't exist and how do you breathe this passion day in day out.
Brajeshwar•2h ago
micromacrofoot•2h ago
mooreds•2h ago
tw04•2h ago
There’s a reason they all do it, and it’s because SSO is one of the few features enterprises are almost universally willing to pay for.
thewebguyd•2h ago
The company I work for is in the middle - anything where SSO is gated behind "Enterprise" is not even considered by us. We don't need 90% of the other "features" under the Enterprise plans, and most aren't willing to custom quote us for Basic+SSO.
Withhold it from free versions, sure - but definitely don't lock SSO only behind the most expensive option.
closewith•1h ago
thewebguyd•1h ago
Maybe in 2015 it was an outlier, but SSO is now a non-negotiable and with many of these businesses on M365 business premium, which includes EntraID P2, SSO is now accessible to a large number of companies where it wasn't before. It's no longer some niche enterprise only functionality, it's a bare minimum for business SaaS.
tw04•1h ago
And if you’re trying to negotiate custom, non standard licensing when you’ve only got 300 employees you will likely be a noisy customer in perpetuity.
No offense, that’s just how I’m betting 99% of folks read your response.
codeflo•1h ago
thewebguyd•1h ago
You can have user limits on the non-enterprise plans (Microsoft does this, for example, with Business Premium locked at 300 users or less), or gate other features behind enterprise: Have MFA across the board, but lock conditional access behind enterprise, lock more advanced audit logs & reporting behind enterprise, lock RBAC behind enterprise, or data residency, custom security policies, API limits, etc.
There are numerous other features that are non-negotiable for enterprises to help funnel them into the enterprise plan, while still being able to service medium companies with SSO.
MoreQARespect•30m ago
autoexec•1h ago
> "Decouple your security features from your value-added services...If your SSO support is a 10% price hike, you’re not on this list. But these percentage increases are not maintenance costs, they’re revenue generation because you know your customers have no good options."
ozim•39m ago
It is getting better with Entra P2 or Okta as it is couple of minutes to configure if you use good framework in your projects.
But the tax was because of what I wrote about in first place.
mooreds•1h ago
There's a number of ways for open source software stacks to make money, but I agree that finding features that companies with money will pay for is a great one.
I think Patio11 said it once, but SSO feels now like HTTPS felt in 2015. Used to be super expensive, but now should be "table stakes".
Other ways open source companies can make money:
- hosting (offers that sweet sweet recurring revenue)
- support (especially SLAs, which pair nicely with hosting)
- other enterprisey features, such as integrating with enterprisey tools (DataDog, SIEM tools)
- other auth features like fine grained authorization (RBAC, ABAC, PBAC) and provisioning (SCIM)
- control planes (I see this with tools like Cerbos and Permit which both offer fine grained authorization execution engines that are free, but charge for the control plane)
- certifications (SOC2, FIPS, HIPAA, PCI). this might not make sense in all cases, it does depend on the tool
- custom feature development (better if this is pulling forward planned development rather than something unplanned)
It's not easy, though.
I wrote more on my personal blog about freemium[0] and open-source[1] business models.
0: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3621
1: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/3438
ralferoo•2h ago
Coursera: $399 per u/y -> $49875 per year [7], 12400%
So, I check out the footnote:
[7] Coursera requires a minimum of 125 users to access SSO pricing. As they do not have an Enterprise price listed, this price just scales their lower cost tier up to 125 seats.
Dividing by 125 shows the SSO pricing is $399, so exactly the same as the non-SSO pricing. I fail to see how this is an SSO tax.
It might be that there is an SSO tax as the Enterprise price wasn't available to them, but listing it as 12400% increase seems like a deliberate attempt at deception.
theamk•2h ago
I've used to work in small startup with ~10 people. The owner was always happy to pay for tools to developer productivity. We did not subscribe to Coursera, but in the theoretical case we'd all want to, the pricing would be:
10 users, no SSO: $3999/year
10 users, with SSO: $49875/year
It's an SSO tax, and a super hefty too. We'd probably balk at it and chose the less-secure option instead. And the fact that we'd get extra 116 licenses we had no need for is absolutely irrelevant, there is nothing we can do with it at all.
stronglikedan•2h ago
ezekg•2h ago
apples_oranges•2h ago
ezekg•2h ago
scarface_74•1h ago
ezekg•1h ago
ta1243•48m ago
Even if the original elastic company offers it cheaper, or better, that's a massive hill to climb. Corporations don't care about costs, they care about pieces of paper, or less charitably nice dinners with the sales team.
gcatalfamo•2h ago
It sounds like a trivial question to answer, but it just exposes the level of detachment that exists between who makes the purchase decisions and its users in SME context.
takinola•1h ago
kube-system•1h ago
esafak•1h ago
jagged-chisel•1h ago
esafak•1h ago
etc. There's a laundry list of features enterprises care about, better spelled out in the sibling post.
kube-system•1h ago
You really have to know who you are talking to and their motivations before you know what the right sales angle is.
hinkley•8m ago
One of them put in a bid to Cisco and got a reply back saying something like they were working on it but having some issues with the birds.