They are powered by thoughts associated with pain. Anything that triggers those thoughts, triggers that pain. We are not even aware of how our thinking has been constrained. We just avoid the possibility of triggering the thought.
A person constrained by such a fence is very obvious from the outside. We see the irrational rationalizations that they can't. Because our thinking isn't constrained by the pain that shapes their thinking. But it takes work to accept the pain of your own painful ideas.
Here's what helped me most, when I hit a painful thought, I try to think about it as, "What are you protecting me from?"
Usually it's something that happened once, often years ago. Next time you feel that electric fence, just notice it. Then take one tiny step towards it (Joe Hudson talks about this as emotional fluency). The fence will beep (your emotions). You'll feel the old pain. But nothing actually happens. And slowly, slowly, you realize you're actually free.
Instead I have found that targeted gratitude has enabled me to bear the pain, while I face the pain, understand its cause, and start doing something about it. This isn't fast, it has been a journey. But a very good one.
Sending a message to someone and potentially not getting any (meaningful) back is something I find very hard to accept, though I know not responding is often not on purpose.
For me, it is not so much about an electric fence, more about a feeling of rejection or abandonment that seems really hard to eradicate.
The ones that don't fly aren't rejections, they're just physics.
That is the whole point of the article.
I tried reaching out to a bunch of folks from where I used to live a few years back, and got unanimously ghosted, until eventually someone responded telling me I was a vile piece of shit for what I did to X, who it transpired in my absence had brewed up a full on horror story about me, involving battery acid and violence - entirely fictitious, but apparently people thought little enough of me to believe it.
Now, I’m content enough to not go lick the fence voluntarily.
[1] I did find out though, that the fence really hurt a lot more when I was standing in a puddle with cracked rubber boots. I imagine it hurts more if you're heavy, well grounded, and standing on four big hooves with metal shoes.
I can confirm your note about footwear mattering. I'm way too cheap (read: stupid) to buy an electric fence tester, so I just touch the fence. In dry shoes, it's noticeable. The one time I did it in wet sneakers, it definitely got my attention. For what it's worth, we have about the smallest fencer Tractor Supply sells (it just has to go around the chicken coop). I betcha a 50 mile fencer would just about make your hair stand up on end.
I feel bad for animals that haven’t learned about it, but anything less has proven to be insufficient for certain animals.
I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I write to everyone as if we are best buddies who just had lunch last week. People I've known since the age of 4, to people I've known for four days.
If I see someone I know at a wedding, I just go and talk to them about whatever we have in common. Normally someone we know.
I really think it's the guarded, tentative, "you don't have to talk to me" that turns people off. Of course people are free to not talk to me, but I don't lead with that. If you lead with that, people feel awkward, like "is he just being polite?". If you just pretend you are best buddies, people play along and they end up quite comfortable quite quickly.
The truth is that people mirror the energy you bring. Show up tentative, they’ll be tentative. Show up like old friends, and suddenly you are.
Just refusing to install the system default software that makes us all strangers. And teaching us that the only thing between us and connection is believing we need permission to care.
Yes. I do this too and wish more people would.
The qualifications, the "what have you been up to?"s -- such mind-numbingly boring conventions. Who wants to go through a "catchup" interview before talking about what's interesting. If that's the price, it's not worth it.
If I think about someone, that's exactly what's on my mind and most interesting. What else would you talk about?
A shared memory, a common friend, perhaps one who's died, their opinion on a movie, a book you're sure they've read, some current event, a funny story they, specifically, might appreciate, etc, etc.
But it's also low-effort and asks the other person to do all the conversational work. For me, personally, if I saw an old friend's number pop up on my phone and magically knew "what have you been up to?" was going to be the first question, I wouldn't answer. Otoh, if I knew the opener was going to be "You're gonna love this story..." I'd be excited to pick up.
One of the times I got it comically wrong was in college where I made a friend for a semester because I thought he was someone I already knew. So I can absolutely believe that attitude and approach makes a huge difference because I've been in at least one scenario where falsely believing I was friends with someone was all it took to be friends.
The "rules" don't really start, until we get older.
I grew up overseas (from where I am now -for some of you, it's probably home).
Most of my playmates were drastically different from me.
A great example is that little children have no protocol, they won't walk up to someone and say things like hi, how are you, how's the weather, etc.
Instead they'll just walk up and either stay mute, or just talk directly about what's currently happening, without any introduction or pre-amble.
My coping mechanism for approaching a person I think I might know (usually in spaces where I wouldn't expect to encounter them) is: don't. At least not immediately. Rather, watch and observe (if possible) to see if the voice/gestures/body positions/etc firm up enough to bring the certainty levels up and the risk levels down.
I think I'd make a good spy, if only I didn't suffer from this face blindness nonsense.
This.
I'm spending the week in my hometown with my 9-year old daughter to give her the chance of some time with her grandparents. We live hundreds of miles (and several countries) away.
While walking along I mentioned to her that an old college friend of mine also lived in this town along with her husband and their daughter.
For perspective: way back then we shared a house, during that time we both ground through our PhDs in parallel, later she and her husband came to our wedding, we went to their wedding, all that stuff.
I explained to my daughter that we've not been in touch for the best part of 20 years and I was a bit sad about that.
<my daughter thought for a bit>
my daughter: "did you have a fight?"
me: "no! of course not! why do you ask?"
my daughter: "maybe you should just write to her"
"Did you have a fight?" "No!" "Then write to her."
That simple. The fence only exists in your head. Twenty years of silence ended by one message. What are you waiting for?
It can mean the world to people sometime. If you've ever had anybody making your day or week by just reaching out, remember that you can be that person too!
It's so easy for people to drift apart. Many people in my parent's generation didn't do a great job keeping in touch with folks and end up lonely or isolated. Avoiding that is as simple as taking a moment to let someone know you were thinking of them.
We're basically wired to consider social cues and signals. Maybe 10% of the time we make a logical judgement of "I really do/don't want to be friends with this person because xyz" and the other 90% is just reading/sending vibes.
This can't be serious? My messages to my 'best buddies' are like "lunch?" or "https://some-link-here" or whatever. You're genuinely suggesting writing messages like those to people I met a few years ago who likely barely remember my face? Zero set-up, just "lunch?" or a random link with no context like I'd text my best buddy? Do you do that? I can't imagine this is a serious suggestion -- surely you're massively exaggerating -- so what am I missing?
Like dude... if I was important to me you'd have talked to me long ago. I am obviously not - that's totally fine. Then at least start with some minor small talk pleasantries before you get to what you actually want.
but if I won't hear from him again for years and all of a sudden he texts me without any care then yea I'd hold that grudge and try to get him out of my life
It's expensive for me to perform socialness, so I tend to assume it's not free for others as well and avoid placing that burden on them.
Some fences are boundaries, not barriers and that's ok!
Not every fence needs to come down. Honor what serves you.
Like "Here's my path to statistical victory/social success/meeting needs. Chances are, it'll be in some small degree inconvenient for others, it'll be rude to them, it'll make them angry, and it'll put a burden on them. Will it worth my chances on victory/social success/meeting needs?"
I’ve had to stop telling anyone anything about where I’m going to be, where I’m working, or who I’m seeing or in a relationship with. Because people have gotten repeatedly stalked and attacked themselves in attempts to get to me, or ‘punish’ me for being happy.
I really wish it was paranoia or something I was imagining too.
A dog learning not to go past the porch because it will get shocked is "conditioning".
Learned helplessness is when a subject won't bother saving themselves from pain because they don't think it will make a difference. For example, if a dog is constantly being electrically shocked, but won't leave the area that is electrified because they think they will get electrified no matter where they go. This is what happens in the case of abuse victims that stay with their abuser. They stick with the abuser because they honestly don't believe their situation will get better with someone else, and at least they know this particular abuser.
> Real connection beyond social media.
> Your social operating system. Get perfectly timed reminders to connect with the most important people in your life—never lose touch again.
Obviously it's another app, just another attention rent-seeker that wants to inject itself into human connections so they can make more and more and more money.
People are here "illegally". A handful are criminals. But a lot of the farm workers putting food on the tables of citizens, are "illegal."
If they're already here and not causing trouble they should be legal. The legalization process shouldn't take as many years and as much money as it does
You contradict yourself by describing exactly what I described, which is a requirement to spend an unbounded (I didn't say infinite) amount of resources trying to understand the reason the fence was built. What you just said is that if you cannot understand why it was built, you can never tear it down. This is precisely my criticism of the concept.
Of course, sometimes it might be easy to discover why the fence was built. But the problem with Chesterton's fence is that, if it were adhered to generally, it applies selective pressure for obscuring the reason fences are built.
int some_old_unmaintained_code(void vector){
// the qyick bwown fox bumped over a lazy do
int i=i;
// DON'T EDIT ABOVE THIS LINE;¥n¥n;¥n;;;;
// DOING SO BREAKS CODE
and its numerous replacements and "improvements".
Just because there is a fence doesn't mean we can't test it a little.
It does get dicey, when what we do is mixed with who we are.
I have an app that is very useful to a lot of folks, but I don't really spend much time, talking about it, because it's frequently met with suspicion. I'm trying to figure out how to work around that.
Have a great day!
Just last month I had lunch with middle school friends I hadn't seen in 40 years. I literally hadn't seen once since Grade 8. I friended them on Facebook years previous but didn't really have anything to chat about, but when I was in the same town as them, I pinged them and said let's go to lunch. It was absolutely amazing, once of those moments that I will remember forever. Not because anything breathtaking happened, but it was just really really nice to connect with people I hadn't seen since the beginning of my life, and meeting them all over again as adults.
I still routinely have lunch with coworkers from 25 years ago. I have friends that I chat with on Whatsapp daily going back almost 50 years. I have no qualms in being the first to reach out, ever.
I have a friend from college that I have been in and out of contact for 30 years, who ghosted me for no reason this past year even after I contacted her a few times. Guess what? I won't hold it against her and I will give her space. I will ping her for her birthday and see if she responds and if not, then I will just leave her alone until she contacts me. But I don't feel shame or anger or embarrassment because I got rejected, that's on her, not me.
It's not fake. Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it isn't real
That's my word for when I don't want to spend time judging a thought/concept/emotion but do want to point out it's not taking me where I want to go in life.
I don't worry about this because as soon as they let me know, I just don't reach out any more. Life's too short to waste time on those types.
If they're family, then I just ignore them or mock them for being creepy. Jokingly, of course, because I'm not stuck with them, they're stuck with me!
Just as it is important to not deny yourself positive social experiences with people you trust, it is just as important not to hold out too much hope for change and be generous when it is not merited, as the consequences can lead straight back to maladaptive coping patterns.
I don't play the stupid games "Oh so and so hasn't reached out in forever I hate them now" or "weakness vs strength" in communication. Communication is a tool.
I don't dislike having friends. I just wish everyone stopped these stupid games and stopped acting like everything needed to be a calculated action. We're animals who evolved to make a bunch of stupid over-thought games for ourselves that make us miserable. If you don't want to talk to someone or don't have time, don't talk to them. If you want to talk to them, reach out.
I don't understand why I'd need some app to solve that. I don't feel hindered approaching life this way. I either get more of the time doing the things I care about or I get to potentially have a good conversation with someone. Don't let some company or app's profit create more barriers in your head.
I keep up with a few people who are easy to contact.
One group of friends have a discord server and twice a week voice calls I can drop into. This works great.
I also have older people in my life who actually do phone calls. So when I go out for a walk, I might call one of them.
Anyone who has expectations of me will be disappointed. I pop up where I can and my friends are happy to see me. They know I care and we always pick up where we left off.
An electric fence that stopped working years ago is still a fence.
Apparently the author doesn’t know a certain kind of obnoxious people. ;)
At first, I was glad to hear from him.
...then, he started talking...
I was, though, when they immediately started asking for money or invited me to join some MLM scheme. Fortunately, that happened just three times or so.
And one night a couple years ago I admitted to myself how much I missed the friendships and decided to send a text. They were really glad to reconnect. I drove 7 hours to see them. The reunion was one of the best moments of my life.
Chesterton's Fence would say that maybe there is a reason and you should tread carefully. Sometimes a relationship died because it should have. Maybe you feel uncomfortable messaging someone because they have given nonverbals that they don't like your company.
YMMV. It'd be a learning experience either way.
And I don't think the point of that statement was that you should be contacting anyone and everyone, just because they entered your mind. It's not saying you should get in touch to say hello to that abusive ex just because you thought about them. But firing off a quick text to someone you found interesting but lost touch with is pretty much always going to be harmless.
Dead friendships should stay dead, unless they naturally come back to life because of other circumstances.
Of course I built it and attached the handle to the inside door knob of my room, then tricked my brother into holding one handle then grabbing the outside doorknob, then I turned the crank, to condition him to stay out of my room!
I found the instructions on page 51 here:
https://www.constructiontoys.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/E...
INSTRUCTIONS FOR BUILDING THE ERECTOR ELECTRIC THRILLER
This amazing little device will provide lots of fun for yourself and many thrills for your friends. This thriiler is actually a device for giving your friends a slight shock. It is absolutely harmless in every respect.
OPERATION OF MODEL
If someone holds the handles, one in each hand, and you crank, they will get a thrilling shock. This happens because the three-volt circuit from the flashlight cells passes through the motor coils to magnetize the iron in the motor. As the crank is turned, the gear leaves the contact spring, the current flow through the coils is stopped, and the magnetism in the iron suddenly breaks down, generating a high voltage in the opposite direction to that of the battery. As the battery circuit is momentarily broken, this current cannot flow through the batteries, so it flows through the handles and then through the person holding the handles. The intensity of the shock may be changed by turning the crank fast or slow.
Here are two suggestions for having fun with your Erector Electric Thriller. Have a group of boys and girls form a circle, holding hands. Each person at the end of the circle should hold one handle of the Thriller. When the crank is turned, the current will pass through everyone, but with a lower intensity. Another trick you can have a lot of fun with is to place a tin pan of water on one of the handles or connect it to one of the handles and place a coin in this tin pan of water. Have a person hold one handle and, with the other hand, try to pick the coin out of the water while you turn the crank.
Edit: OMFG I found the plans for my very first robot on page 89, "The Mysterious Walking Robot Model", with tank tread feet, motorized walk, and glowing lightbulb eyes!
https://www.constructiontoys.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/E...
an important instruction, perhaps
> It is absolutely harmless in every respect.
There is probably an argument here both for and against toy safety standards.
One of my fondest memories from only a few years ago was when a friend that I was reasonably close with but hadn't seen in a long while messaged me on birthday. Probably didn't mean much to her but it still means a lot to me to this day. I should text her.
"Perhaps I'm too sentimental" --> I disagree, you're just brave enough to admit you care. That birthday message that still means something years later? That's the whole point. She probably has no idea she gave you that gift.
The fizzled conversations are less important than the ones you reignite. Every reach out is worth it, even the ones that go nowhere, because you're practicing becoming the person who tries.
What if, you text her right now? Like right now. Don't wait until you finish reading comments. Tell her that birthday message still matters. I bet you'll make her whole week.
But the article seems somewhat better than typical AI-generated slop, so .... ??
It's sad that now whenever I read something I am like... wait, was this really written by a human?
I wonder how much of human culture and creative expression we are losing to algorithmic manipulation and AI dilution.
At some point I think it is a reasonable conclusion that they don't care much if they haven't reached out. The article's point doesn't really hold up when you have many reliable data points of reaching out and experiencing a negative outcome. Sad but there's no rule that things have to work out.
I have learned to stop paying attention to "content" based on those cues, much like with ad breaks on TV or youtube. It's mostly not even conscious, I just skip over it.
How dare he invalidate my experience like that xD
Same for me...
Moscow’s street dogs are renowned for their intelligence. I have seen street dogs taking the escalators on the Metro. This dog worked out not just that the beeping + discomfort was worth the freedom, but also that he could wear out the battery faster by going up to the very edge of the fence - where the chirps became an uninterrupted beeeeep - and as soon as the beeping stopped, whoosh he was gone.
Keep the electric fence up for those idiots.
I now assume everyone needs 2-3 reminders. Not because they don't care, but because life is chaos. Keep following up!
Learning as an adult is like learning a new language, slow, often awkward, but possible.
Start tiny. One word texts. "Hey!"
No pressure for conversation. Just practice existing in someone's inbox. The fence gets weaker with each send.
Insanity is also assuming the electric fence that shocked you a hundred times is still turned on.
So no matter what you do it is wrong unless it works, then you are a genius. I am not sure how to use this advice.
One way to look at it is to just test one fence. Just one. If it shocks you, now you know. If it doesn't, now you're free. And either way, you're now no longer guessing.
if you check it, youre in the right and if the fence no longer works its a win situation
but if the fence still works you're not only experiencing the immediate pain, there will also be long term consequences to how you program yourself
I remember being younger in college and me and friends were talking about dating and whatnot, and I'm just like -- look, you'll have a much better time, you just gotta get over your fear of rejection. And I was surprised then to the extent that people looked at me and got genuinely offended, like "how dare you not take how TRAUMATIC this can be seriously."
And this generation feels a lot like that. Most of those friends ended up agreeing with me, and I do get that it FEELS bad to, e.g. look stupid or whatever in such a situation -- but the fact that it's an "intense feeling" doesn't mean I'm at all wrong here -- if better socialization is what you actually want.*
*edit, and so I suppose what might be useful is to better hit this head on in our public discussions? Love this article for that.
The example of reaching out to people will seldom go all that badly (though sometimes people aren’t who you think they are and you will have to block them), but there are definitely decisions in life that shouldn’t be made lightly.
stroz•5mo ago
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